Miami Dolphins Scheme Changes Will Be Challenging Says Grier

[djphinfan]

I like Polite. Not sure he's a fit, but he's very good.

Relative to what we have on the roster, and taking into account what were moving to schematically, why do you feel that the skill set of Polite isn't a fit here?

 

[hoops]

van noy couldn't win consistently vs tackles as an edge rusher. in a lot of ways that's like koa misi in Miami. career rescued by off the los lb fit. although misi is a more limited space athlete than van noy.

I don't think polite with those shoulders is in play for the scheme ask. probably could convert to off the los ask but I think id rather put him as a full time weakside olb. off the los lb be a plan b. and I see him run by the qb unable to flatten to the qb more than id care to. that imo doesn't project laterally all that well in a off the los lb ask role. has a nice shoulder dip move on the edge. green bay looks like a scheme fit to me.

brian burns also I just don't see these framed kids as fits. it would depend on if I bought into him adding weight and not scraping the athlete and I think I'd be concerned with it with him. i'm gonna pass. think im looking at better frame options.

if Miami had drafted tremaine Edmunds they'd have a monster for the donte hightower role right now if they were looking to mirror it.

and yeah I think this could mean Jerome bakers role is impacted.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Van Noy was my favorite player in that draft. So smart and versatile at BYU. Always turning and finding the ball even while dropping into coverage. Reminded me of an early '70s Dolphins defender. I thought Van Noy would be first round but once his senior season was more quiet and he dropped into the second round I remember posting in the draft forum that I'd take whoever in the first but then be thrilled to pick up Van Noy in the second, essentially cementing the draft right there.

I was sick when the Lions took him. Strange franchise. Many players seem to get lost there, although others prosper like Sanders and Calvin Johnson.

The Patriots were so sharp to keep an eye on Van Noy and pick him up once his stock dropped. Likewise with Danny Shelton, who I didn't like where Cleveland took him but certainly worth more than the Patriots paid. That's what I have always emphasized regarding paying attention to how players were rated throughout their lives. Don't shoot someone well up the ladder solely based on recent. But find guys whose recent form and reputation doesn't match their long term rating. Value supreme.

If we can somehow replicate Patriot smarts then everything will take care of itself. New England always seems to confuse and sucker the opposing team with this stuff like we'll send you a 3rd and take your 5th along with Player X. Meanwhile, Player X was once a highly rated player and now you've got him for nothing more than dropping a bit in a mostly congested area of the draft anyway.

I don't agree regarding Godchaux at nose tackle. As hoops posted, his instincts are to shed and penetrate. Godchaux plays more narrow than his listed weight. Vincent Taylor may technically be lighter but his instincts are first step square to the offensive lineman. Plenty of girth and could get bigger. He is better suited to nose. But the only pure nose type on the roster is Kendrick Norton.

I love the standup defenders smack across from the quarterback's face. New England did that in the second quarter and beyond, and particularly on third down once Tannehill had given them trouble early in that game. It changed Miami's rhythm and confidence on offense. I wasn't surprised it likewise terrorized the Rams.

But opponents will laugh at the Dolphins if tiny guys like Jerome Baker are filling those roles.

Absolutely. I had Van Noy as my #1 Senior OLB in the 2014 draft - even above Anthony Barr (my #2 Senior OLB) who ended up going top 10.

Despite not having Barr's natural length as a pass rusher, I felt like KVN was just better at finding the football. Better and more reliable instincts as a playmaker.

Top organizations like the Patriots tend to find these guys they had preferrable grades on coming out of college floundering away in other organizations and bring 'em in to fulfill a role that brings success to them, rather than always relying on it to be vice versa - and hoping.

 

[circumstances]

I have two questions.

1) If we ever play four linebackers at one time, is Raekwon likely to be better/worse/similar at one of the two ILB positions than MLB in a three LB scheme?

2) Can Charles Harris play any snaps at OLB when there are four LBs on the field, and does that add to his value (snaps at end when there is a four man line, snaps at OLB when there are four LBs)?

I'm concerned with the idea of playing many DBs frequently with only one boundary corner on the roster that we know can actually play (Howard).

 

[djphinfan]

van noy couldn't win consistently vs tackles as an edge rusher. in a lot of ways that's like koa misi in Miami. career rescued by off the los lb fit. although misi is a more limited space athlete than van noy.

I don't think polite with those shoulders is in play for the scheme ask. probably could convert to off the los ask but I think id rather put him as a full time weakside olb. off the los lb be a plan b. and I see him run by the qb unable to flatten to the qb more than id care to. that imo doesn't project laterally all that well in a off the los lb ask role. has a nice shoulder dip move on the edge. green bay looks like a scheme fit to me.

brian burns also I just don't see these framed kids as fits. it would depend on if I bought into him adding weight and not scraping the athlete and I think I'd be concerned with it with him. i'm gonna pass. think im looking at better frame options.

if Miami had drafted tremaine Edmunds they'd have a monster for the donte hightower role right now if they were looking to mirror it.

and yeah I think this could mean Jerome bakers role is impacted.

Polite's shoulders?

Van Noy as a strait up beat the tackle pass rusher maybe not,but overall he's just a really good linebacker, so it was a mistake by whoever to disregard the rest of his game.

Agreed on Burns.

Disagree on Edmunds..Glad we took Mink, real concerns on Edmunds and what level he will reach, jmo don't think he will reach his top 15 status.Donte Hightower arrives at the ball based on instincts, Edmunds on athletic ability.

 

[Eesti]

I have two questions.

1) If we ever play four linebackers at one time, is Raekwon likely to be better/worse/similar at one of the two ILB positions than MLB in a three LB scheme?

2) Can Charles Harris play any snaps at OLB when there are four LBs on the field, and does that add to his value (snaps at end when there is a four man line, snaps at OLB when there are four LBs)?

I'm concerned with the idea of playing many DBs frequently with only one boundary corner on the roster that we know can actually play (Howard).

I think McMillan got better as the season went on but he is only a 2 down Mike, IMO. He could play inside Mike in a 3-4 base I think. Baker as the Will.

I have little faith in Charles Harris standing up and dropping into coverage. 4.78 guy covering TE's these days? better be a lot more athletic than that.

In the secondary, I think we will be better off once they stop trying to force the issue with TJ and Reshad as interchangeable. Put Minkah in the middle of the field but yes, we need another corner.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[circumstances]

I think McMillan got better as the season went on but he is only a 2 down Mike, IMO. He could play inside Mike in a 3-4 base I think. Baker as the Will.

I have little faith in Charles Harris standing up and dropping into coverage. 4.78 guy covering TE's these days? better be a lot more athletic than that.

In the secondary, I think we will be better off once they stop trying to force the issue with TJ and Reshad as interchangeable. Put Minkah in the middle of the field but yes, we need another corner.

Just my humble opinion.

I think we need at least 3 CBs! (and I like what I saw from Jalen Davis).

 

[j-off-her-doll]

van noy couldn't win consistently vs tackles as an edge rusher. in a lot of ways that's like koa misi in Miami. career rescued by off the los lb fit. although misi is a more limited space athlete than van noy.

I don't think polite with those shoulders is in play for the scheme ask. probably could convert to off the los ask but I think id rather put him as a full time weakside olb. off the los lb be a plan b. and I see him run by the qb unable to flatten to the qb more than id care to. that imo doesn't project laterally all that well in a off the los lb ask role. has a nice shoulder dip move on the edge. green bay looks like a scheme fit to me.

brian burns also I just don't see these framed kids as fits. it would depend on if I bought into him adding weight and not scraping the athlete and I think I'd be concerned with it with him. i'm gonna pass. think im looking at better frame options.

if Miami had drafted tremaine Edmunds they'd have a monster for the donte hightower role right now if they were looking to mirror it.

and yeah I think this could mean Jerome bakers role is impacted.

Polite looks good flattening to me. Think his burst and agility should show well in Indianapolis. I'm more worried about his part-time role on the line and lack of tape off the ball. Closest thing in NE would be Derek Rivers, but they drafted him later than Polite will go, and I assume that they envision him as a pass-rush specialist in that scheme, as he's much smaller than all their other DE's. Polite would have to play LB for Miami, but what's to say that he can?

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Relative to what we have on the roster, and taking into account what were moving to schematically, why do you feel that the skill set of Polite isn't a fit here?

Not that he can't be a fit athletically as a LB - just that he has no tape to indicate his instincts play at the POA will get it done.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

van noy couldn't win consistently vs tackles as an edge rusher. in a lot of ways that's like koa misi in Miami. career rescued by off the los lb fit. although misi is a more limited space athlete than van noy.

I don't think polite with those shoulders is in play for the scheme ask. probably could convert to off the los ask but I think id rather put him as a full time weakside olb. off the los lb be a plan b. and I see him run by the qb unable to flatten to the qb more than id care to. that imo doesn't project laterally all that well in a off the los lb ask role. has a nice shoulder dip move on the edge. green bay looks like a scheme fit to me.

brian burns also I just don't see these framed kids as fits. it would depend on if I bought into him adding weight and not scraping the athlete and I think I'd be concerned with it with him. i'm gonna pass. think im looking at better frame options.

if Miami had drafted tremaine Edmunds they'd have a monster for the donte hightower role right now if they were looking to mirror it.

and yeah I think this could mean Jerome bakers role is impacted.

LVE would also have fit that ask.

 

[Lovethefish]

I see little TJ Watt in Polite. 6-3 250. Probably too small to play traditional DE and too slow to play LB yet has certain valuable skill set.
Sort of a hybrid cross of Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins in Pats lingo.

 

[hoops]

LVE would also have fit that ask.

Yeah I just think Edmunds gives you more thump at the poa and as a pass rusher. And I think he’s 2 years from his long term level player.

I think lves 2 years also and that kids hell a good there’s no doubt about that. Not sure why they pulled him for Sean lee in tbe postseason. Only thing I could think was some concerns about blown assignments maybe. Didn’t make much sense to me.

I thought Derek Rivers was like 6 foot 3 and 250 coming out?

I’m thinking polites gonna he in the late 230s maybe mid 240s given that height but I don’t like those thin shoulders and torso for adding much weight and poa play.

Why not draft him ideal fit to be clay Matthews on the los lb role in Green Bay? That’s just what I see the ideal value is.

Whatever edge we draft especially if it’s a outside shoulder win option i want that guy to be able to flatten to the qb. I feel like I’ve seen Montez sweat do that. I think that might be more the Derek Rivers body type just in a bigger version length etc wise.

To me wide 9 is ideal for Ferrell so I kinda feel like this scheme change hurts his chances somewhat although I’m sure they like that frame. His overall game imo is better than his pure pass rush. But he does have quality short area quickness on tape. Jonah Williams was off balance a few times because of it.

 

[djphinfan]

I think McMillan got better as the season went on but he is only a 2 down Mike, IMO. He could play inside Mike in a 3-4 base I think. Baker as the Will.

I have little faith in Charles Harris standing up and dropping into coverage. 4.78 guy covering TE's these days? better be a lot more athletic than that.

In the secondary, I think we will be better off once they stop trying to force the issue with TJ and Reshad as interchangeable. Put Minkah in the middle of the field but yes, we need another corner.

Just my humble opinion.

I do think Baker and Mcmillian could work in this multiple front, and the end of the year Mcmillian was crushing some skulls filling gaps..

I’m not and wasn’t a fan of Harris at that spot in the draft at def end, so either trade bait or changing his responsibilities is the only way I would go..

 

[djphinfan]

Polite looks good flattening to me. Think his burst and agility should show well in Indianapolis. I'm more worried about his part-time role on the line and lack of tape off the ball. Closest thing in NE would be Derek Rivers, but they drafted him later than Polite will go, and I assume that they envision him as a pass-rush specialist in that scheme, as he's much smaller than all their other DE's. Polite would have to play LB for Miami, but what's to say that he can?

I agree, he’s athletic when rushing the passer, can contort the body well, I believe his stock will rise after the combine, his movement skills and speed are nice so that’s why I have hope on the projection at linebacker..

 

[djphinfan]

I see little TJ Watt in Polite. 6-3 250. Probably too small to play traditional DE and too slow to play LB yet has certain valuable skill set.
Sort of a hybrid cross of Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins in Pats lingo.

Watt was who I suggested drafting instead of Harris and I can see that comparison, Watt was lite in the pants, but his creativity, technique, motor and reactionary quickness is why I thought he would be a good player and the right choice..

He’s not the size of trey flowers but we need good football players that can do multiple things along the front..I’m confident he’s a real good football player with instincts and athletic ability.