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Miami has the Opportunity to Put Together an Elite Offense

Feverdream

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How do you figure? Bad??

Even with 0 help....
The secondary is elite.
LB is average.
DL is average.
So at worst, we will be slightly above average. Now you add defenive pedigee coach Flo, how can it be bad?
Just don't understand the logic behind your view.
I specifically mentioned the edge play...

To wit... no Van Noy. No Lawson. No replacements. ...and even with these two, pressure was only marginal. Our Edges are not average... they are bad. We have one decent rotational edge... Ogbah who is only a 9 sack guy.

Our Linebackers? Baker is okay... McKinney can stop the run... Van Ginkle shared a job with Van Noy last year with Van Noy getting about 75% of the downs, and Van Ginkle getting about 50% of the downs... you'll note that this adds up to over 100% of the snaps... because on many downs, they both played... so don't be one of those folks who think VG will just fill VN's absence. Math says no. Overall, our Linebackers are below average... as are our safeties.

You don't understand the logic, because you REFUSE to look at the actual players who will be playing. You've gotten caught up in the magic beans and Flores hype.
 

rickd13

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Some yes... but then again, we put multiple picks into the offense last year. Tua, three linemen, Perry, Bowden... all came via draft picks last year.

There has to be some balance.
Perry and Bowden aren't elite talents. I have no problem if neither one of them are on the roster at the start of the season.
 

Feverdream

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Perry and Bowden aren't elite talents. I have no problem if neither one of them are on the roster at the start of the season.
Still... whether they ever work out or not... That was 6 picks used on the offense last year... Any argument that starts with, we need to spend picks on the offense, because we didn't last year... is a non-starter.
 

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I don't know if this a Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs thing, but most teams go into each year with some holes in their roster. It's rare that you can fix everything at once. Last year, we did major work on the line and didn't bring in weapons. The Bengals took a QB, but didn't have enough picks to fix everything else... The Patriots brought in a ton of depth, but couldn't secure a QB...

This is normal... unless you are on top.

So I wonder... which needs will we leave unfulfilled this year as we slowly get better? We've pretty much agree that we need, at minimum: 1 Receiver of some kind (maybe 2), a Running Back, a Center, a Tackle or Guard, a DE Edge, an OLB Edge, and another developmental Safety... and we aint getting all of this in one draft. Even if we had that many high round picks... some would bust, some would get injured, and some would end up being just a guy.

How we react to these unfulfilled needs, and whether we lie to ourselves about how they are REALLY are not needs so as to buttress our arguments... define what we are discussing. Is is more important to draft an Edge than a second receiver? If we take a RB, can we still take a Center? If we grab that Tackle, do we have to pass on the second Edge prospect?

That's what we are arguing over... because we CAN'T fill every need here. Something will be left off the list, and when that hole becomes apparent during the season... someone will cry. They'll blame Grier. They'll tell us that they knew this would happen and any idiot could have... blah blah blah...

So I'm challenging people to look at it through this prism... where are you willing to accept a weakness? And are you willing to admit that we've made a choice that made that weakness worse?
Great post.

Prior to free agency, I would have said avoid the edge rushers in this draft. But Miami can't afford to do that with the current roster. That leaves me uneasy because most likely that means missing on a more talented player.

A dynamic wide receiver and an edge rusher are must haves. Two receivers early would be taking advantage of the talent in the draft, but that's unlikely if we are talking needs.

On NFL network, they had Miami going edge at #18 with Rousseau and at #36 with Tryon. That might be more likely than fans would want to hear.

Safety, running back and center would be the three potential "left out" positions IMO.

I think Miami could get by in the secondary at safety with Rowe, Brandon Jones and McCain. Would absolutely love the addition of Holland, but that's top 50.

The free agent signing of Malcolm Brown was a little bit of an under the radar move and I think a real good one. While I really want Williams or Harris, the Dolphins could look middle rounds or later at running back.

Skura is probably a slight upgrade over Karras at center. Deiter had a nice game filling in for Karras last year, so maybe that factors in. Humphrey or Dickerson would be upgrades, but again would require a top 50 pick.

The wildcard for me is RT. Hunt wasn't bad there and showed improvement as the year progressed. But with Tua being left handed, I would draft a tackle. This draft is loaded with tackles and I love drafting to the strength of the draft.

I'm not sure on linebacker. The trade for McKinney and signing Riley might be it. No doubt Flores would like to add to the unit, but my guess is the team prioritizes an edge rusher, or two.
 

rickd13

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in opposite, how would you feel if we got Parsons at #6, Collins at #18, some DE and CB with the 2nd round picks? How would you all feel if we went all defense in the first two rounds?
Disgusted. It would be all the proof I need to see that the organization has no clue how to build around a young QB or what it takes to have sustained success in the NFL.
 

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One word, 'Tua'.
All hinge on Tua. Nothing else matter.
If he take the next step, we will have a top 15 offense with Fuller onboard. Even if all picks are bust.
If Tua fail, no weapons will do us any good.
If Tua doesn't come through (I hope he does) then all the pieces or at least the majority of the pieces on Offense will be set up and waiting for the next QB to step up. Its a win/win.
 

rickd13

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Still... whether they ever work out or not... That was 6 picks used on the offense last year... Any argument that starts with, we need to spend picks on the offense, because we didn't last year... is a non-starter.
There's no sense going back in forth on this. Miami needs way more help on the offensive side of the ball. It's not even debatable. That's why you are clearly in the minority on this topic. On top of that, the one position where Miami does need help, defensive edge, it's not a particularly strong class. If there was an elite edge player I would have been all for taking him at #3, but there clearly isn't but I also wouldn't have a problem if Miami sees someone they are intrigued with at the position and pulled the trigger, but no one in their right might can't see where the strength of this draft lies and how it aligns with Miami's greatest needs.
 

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agree and imagine how we would be looking if we drafted Justin Jefferson or any of the receivers instead of Jackson.
would be loaded
 

Feverdream

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Great post.

Prior to free agency, I would have said avoid the edge rushers in this draft. But Miami can't afford to do that with the current roster. That leaves me uneasy because most likely that means missing on a more talented player.

A dynamic wide receiver and an edge rusher are must haves. Two receivers early would be taking advantage of the talent in the draft, but that's unlikely if we are talking needs.

On NFL network, they had Miami going edge at #18 with Rousseau and at #36 with Tryon. That might be more likely than fans would want to hear.

Safety, running back and center would be the three potential "left out" positions IMO.

I think Miami could get by in the secondary at safety with Rowe, Brandon Jones and McCain. Would absolutely love the addition of Holland, but that's top 50.

The free agent signing of Malcolm Brown was a little bit of an under the radar move and I think a real good one. While I really want Williams or Harris, the Dolphins could look middle rounds or later at running back.

Skura is probably a slight upgrade over Karras at center. Deiter had a nice game filling in for Karras last year, so maybe that factors in. Humphrey or Dickerson would be upgrades, but again would require a top 50 pick.

The wildcard for me is RT. Hunt wasn't bad there and showed improvement as the year progressed. But with Tua being left handed, I would draft a tackle. This draft is loaded with tackles and I love drafting to the strength of the draft.

I'm not sure on linebacker. The trade for McKinney and signing Riley might be it. No doubt Flores would like to add to the unit, but my guess is the team prioritizes an edge rusher, or two.
These are the decisions that we are juggling. These are very tough calls. No, we are not going to get a starter off of our practice squad...

If we want youth and noticeable upside, it won't be Skura, it won't be Rowe, or McCain, or Malcolm Brown, but these guys might work for a year and I'm suggesting that this MAY be a clue to which way we are leaning in the draft.

It might not be Fuller. Preston could get hurt again. Hell... we might sign Flowers for a long contract after this year... but in the end, smart money says to bid against every single one of these players being successful.

Maybe it will be Strowbridge... but I doubt it. Maybe Van Ginkle can play all 100% of the defensive plays... and two positions at once too! But I doubt it...

I could tell you which positions that I favor leaving off the list, and I could tell you why that these positions would be my choice... but that wasn't really the direction I was going with this... First the acceptance, then we can determine strategy... but as you can see, I'm already getting pushback on the reality.

Something will get left off the list, and pretending that we are better than we really are... doesn't help.
 

Feverdream

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agree and imagine how we would be looking if we drafted Justin Jefferson or any of the receivers instead of Jackson.
would be loaded
Mind you, we'd have no line and Tua would get killed... but hey. There are no Linemen in FFL amiright?
 

EJay

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The talent at the top of the draft matches exactly what Miami needs. There are three receivers and a tight end who have a good chance to be elite players in the NFL.

Which is why I’ve been posing the idea of trading up from 18 should an elite talent fall into the 10-14 range.

Mike Greenberg, Desmond Howard and Ryan Clark recently discussed the idea of the 2021 receiver class being the best ever. Regardless whether someone agrees, the idea that it’s even being discussed demonstrates how good this draft is.

If MIA can find a way to land TWO of these elite prospects, I’m fully on board.

It could be Pitts and Smith/Waddle. Or Pitts/Smith/Chase/Waddle and Sewell/Parsons.

Any combination of 2 of them is a huge win and step forward IMO.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The elite level talent is there. Go get it.

 

Dan13Forever

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I specifically mentioned the edge play...

To wit... no Van Noy. No Lawson. No replacements. ...and even with these two, pressure was only marginal. Our Edges are not average... they are bad. We have one decent rotational edge... Ogbah who is only a 9 sack guy.

Our Linebackers? Baker is okay... McKinney can stop the run... Van Ginkle shared a job with Van Noy last year with Van Noy getting about 75% of the downs, and Van Ginkle getting about 50% of the downs... you'll note that this adds up to over 100% of the snaps... because on many downs, they both played... so don't be one of those folks who think VG will just fill VN's absence. Math says no. Overall, our Linebackers are below average... as are our safeties.

You don't understand the logic, because you REFUSE to look at the actual players who will be playing. You've gotten caught up in the magic beans and Flores hype.
No magic bean my friend. Just good coach and bad coach. Unlike NBA, NFL is a coaching league and a qb league. Coaching do make a big difference. Just look at the coaches we had before Flo. If you fail to realize that, then we just have to agree to disagree.
 

boringfin

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agree and imagine how we would be looking if we drafted Justin Jefferson or any of the receivers instead of Jackson.
would be loaded
Mind you, we'd have no line and Tua would get killed... but hey. There are no Linemen in FFL amiright?
do we have a line now?
 

SF Dolphin Fan

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Which is why I’ve been posing the idea of trading up from 18 should an elite talent fall into the 10-14 range.

Mike Greenberg, Desmond Howard and Ryan Clark recently discussed the idea of the 2021 receiver class being the best ever. Regardless whether someone agrees, the idea that it’s even being discussed demonstrates how good this draft is.

If MIA can find a way to land TWO of these elite prospects, I’m fully on board.

It could be Pitts and Smith/Waddle. Or Pitts/Smith/Chase/Waddle and Sewell/Parsons.

Any combination of 2 of them is a huge win and step forward IMO.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The elite level talent is there. Go get it.

I really think that is how the great teams approach the draft. Go with the best players, follow the talent in the draft. BPA screams for two wide receiver picks in the top 50 and probably a tackle early on.

Unfortunately, Miami needs an edge rusher badly. That's probably the riskiest position in the draft.
 

Feverdream

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No magic bean my friend. Just good coach and bad coach. Unlike NBA, NFL is a coaching league and a qb league. Coaching do make a big difference. Just look at the coaches we had before Flo. If you fail to realize that, then we just have to agree to disagree.
In the long run... it won't matter, because there is no way that Flo goes into this season with this edge crew. He'll take at least one... and maybe two.
 
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