Mike Gesicki Vs Oj Howard & David Njoku

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Blancgary911, May 13, 2018.

  1. Blancgary911

    Blancgary911 Well-Known Member

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    This thought came to my mind about last years draft Tight Ends that alot of people wanted between OJ Howard and David Njoku(personally wanted Howard last year) and I wanted to hear yall thoughts on how Mike Gesicki compares to those two from the 2017 NFL Draft.
    How do they compare talent and skill wise and if u had to choose out of the 3 to be on your team which one would u choose?????
     
  2. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    Gesicki is a fine TE prospect but he's no where near the same talent as OJ Howard and David njoku, hence why they were selected much higher. They are more athletic TE and Howard is definitely a much better blocker.

    But obviously that doesnt mean gesicki wont be as good or better than those guys. Eric ebron was supposed to be a freak TE and was looked at as superior prospect compared to Zach Ertz and Travis Kelce who were drafted in 2nd or 3rd rounds.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  3. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Time will tell. Talent helps but you also need the right situation. A lot depends on the QB and the OC as to how much you use the TE.
     
  4. Duriel

    Duriel Starter

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    More athletic? How so? Gesicki matches up well or beats them in the testing of athletic ability at the combine.

    They may be better tight ends (time will tell), but I don't think you can say they're better athletes.
     
  5. Kamelion4291

    Kamelion4291 Member

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    Gisecki is a better athlete than both and that's not really something that can be debated because the combine numbers are right there for you to look at. He fell to the 2nd round because his blocking was bad, not because he's not a freak athlete.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  6. HeavenCent

    HeavenCent Active Member

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    I think Gesicki is more like Evan Engram from last year. Basically, just a big slot WR and also getting some 3x1 looks, too.
     
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  7. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    That's the comparison that I was just about to post, you beat me to it.
     
  8. allsilverdreams

    allsilverdreams Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Put Gesicki in for a few quarters with the Celtics and I bet he does great. Dude is just a freak athlete.
     
  9. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    btw, Gesicki was a great volleyball player too and was named high school player of the year in the state. He's a freak
     
  10. Fintastic17

    Fintastic17 A True Fan

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    His combine numbers were the best for a TE in a looong time. Also the comparison to Engram is fair, but Gesickis catch/contested catch rate is better. Engram has struggled with some drops
     
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  11. CaSh

    CaSh Nothing bigga than the B

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    I still want Njoku. But at least we have entered this era of football by drafting a matchup nightmare
     
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  12. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    I’m with Mike Mayock that 4.5 40 doesn’t translate to the football field.
     
  13. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    They are not more athletic Blake, the proof is in the test results. Gesicki has better test results in basically every category. They are smoother in and out of their breaks. That is route running though
     
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  14. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    More athletc than the TE that set records at the combine? He literally put on the best display they’ve seen in forever
     
  15. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    Omg now we’re just being haters in here. He’s a dolphin for Christ’s sake.
     
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  16. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    I posted this in a previous thread.

    Compare against OJ Howard (Gesicki in parenthesis):
    6'6 251 (6'6 247)

    • 40 YARD DASH: 4.51 SEC (4.54)
    • BENCH PRESS: 22 REPS (22)
    • VERTICAL JUMP: 30.0 INCH (41.5)
    • BROAD JUMP: 121.0 INCH (129)
    • 3 CONE DRILL: 6.85 SEC (6.76)
    • 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.16 SEC (4.1)
    • 60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.46 SEC (11.33)
    26 rec/ 432 yards/ 16.6 avg/ 6 tds

    Compare against David Njoku (Gesicki in parenthesis):
    6'4 246 (6'6 247)
    • 40 YARD DASH: 4.64 SEC (4.54)
    • BENCH PRESS: 21 REPS (22)
    • VERTICAL JUMP: 37.5 INCH (41.5)
    • BROAD JUMP: 133.0 INCH (129)
    • 3 CONE DRILL: 6.97 SEC (6.76)
    • 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.34 SEC (4.1)
    32 rec/ 386 yards/ 12.1 avg/ 4 tds

    If Gesicki couldn't run routes well or his speed was slow, there is no way he would have been as effective as he was at Penn State.
     
  17. miami365

    miami365 Rookie

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    Who needs 4.5 speed when he can climb the ladder on an end zone jump ball.
     
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  18. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Gesicki is a better athlete just not as polished of a TE prospect. Very raw Still
     
  19. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    Love all three. Just looked up Njoku's stats last year and they weren't gangbusters (I know, he played for Cleveland)…but if Gesicki gives us about 40 catches, 500 yards, and 4 TD's his first year, I'd take that….

    Julius and Jordan were basically non-existent for us….
     
  20. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    College stats:

    Gesicki:
    Junior: 48/679 14.1 avg 5 tds
    Senior: 57/563 9.9 avg 9 tds

    OJ Howard:
    Junior: 38/602 15.8 avg 2 tds
    Senior: 45/595 13.2 avg 3 tds
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  21. Miamifinz

    Miamifinz Philbin is an idiot Donator

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    Gesickis vertical and three cone is insanely impressive. Hopefully that translates to good route running and a lot of won jump balls.
     
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  22. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Some people might be concerned that Gesicki's receptions increased to 57 his senior season but his yards decreased and his yards per reception dropped to 9.9. I would actually say that shows me he was grinding out yardage and not getting by on just making plays down field because he's athletic and quick. I'm sure the Dolphins will having fun finding new ways to use in the short passing game and downfield. If defenders are giving him a big cushion he can eat them alive on short curls, out routes and crossing routes.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  23. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Great comments. That is so true in football.
     
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  24. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Hard to compare. I think Gesicki might end up being the best redzone threat of the three with the way he can outjump people. I was always impressed with Njoku's run after the catch ability and I like his physicality with the ball in his hands. Howard is pretty complete.

    Will be fun to watch these guys. I think with Gase, Geiscki has a chance to really be something special.
     
  25. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Actually, Gesicki is a better athlete than both of them, but I would say all three are in the same tier.

    Travis Wingfield did an excellent piece on the Dolphins Offseason after the draft here:

    https://www.lockedondolphins.com/dolphins/the-new-new-miami-part-two-of-miamis-off-season-vision/

    If you scroll down a bit you will see Mike Gesicki's Relative Athletic Scorecard (RAS), which is an analytics evaluation system somewhat similar to the SPARQ system. They graded Gesicki as the 3rd best TE prospect they have ever tested, so 3 out of 781. Literally, the only metric where Gesicki was not top shelf elite was .... wait for it ... weight. Sorry, you gotta eat some more doughnuts to get that one Mike. Athletically, Mike Gesicki is a slightly better version of Jimmy Graham ... yeah, he's the real deal athletically.

    Now, you're absolutely correct about his blocking. But it's more 'want to' than ability with him. I did an analysis of his Michigan game here:

    https://finheaven.com/threads/mike-gesicki-blocking.347397/#post-7626704

    and concluded that he blocked better the closer to where the play was schemed to go. And, he's a better pass protector than run blocker. But if he puts his mind to it, he has potential as a blocker too ... we just cannot be sure he will put his mind to that aspect of the position. OJ Howard is and will likely always be a superior blocker. But, IMHO, Gesicki will be significantly better as a move TE (pass catcher) than any of the guys you mentioned.

    This draft had more depth at TE and more talent overall than the one where Howard and Njoku went, so it is not surprising that the TE's went in the second round. Frankly, most people were surprised Baltimore reached for Hurst in the 1st. Gesicki is clearly the most athletic TE to have come out since the Gronkowski, Graham draft.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I never liked OJ Howard as a 1st rounder. I did not want to over-think him, certainly, because at that position the athletic dynamos tend to rise to the top.

    But my argument with him was that everyone where rating him high based on his blocking ability, whereas blocking ability in a tight end tends to be, 1) as erratic in its projection as anything else with a draft prospect, and 2) not really that important in the NFL anymore.

    When a guy like Howard is a good blocker there is a tendency for people to say, well, whatever happens with the player overall, THIS is something we know about him. There is no projection here. This is something he has. But that is BS. It is all projection, and it is all subject to error terms.

    Howard is a perfect example. Look at his block grades this year. Bad. I tried to tell people that what he seemed to be as a blocker at Bama was a really gifted MOVE blocker, from a floating H-Back position, getting out and using his quick feet to get in front of blockers in space and then allowing his frame, strength, and physicality do the rest. He was NEVER a great attached blocker who was gonna block a DE like an OT and think nothing of it. Watching try and do that against Daeshon Hall of Texas A&M, even setting aside Myles Garrett, was instructive this way. But people insisted he was like, totally awesome as a blocker. So the Buccaneers put too much on his plate, and he did not do so well.

    The other thing was as a pass catcher, I just did not see the play making SKILLS. I saw the play making athleticism, strength, and speed, and that is why I kept having to remind myself not to over-think him. But the skills? The stuff that makes you say, man what a football player that guy is? Did not see much.

    Not surprised the Buccaneers find themselves in the awkward position of handing out a #1 TE financial commitment to Cameron Brate (a six year, $41 million deal!!) one year after drafting OJ Howard high.

    People and Bucs fans may be under the false impression that the Bucs will merely use 2-TE personnel all day. Nobody does that. Not even the Bucs.

    The NFL uses “12” personnel only 19% of downs as a league, and the very HIGHEST among teams was the Baltimore Ravens at 34%. The Colts did 28% and the Bucs came in fifth at a mere 24%.

    So no, it will not be easy for the Bucs to get their money’s worth out of both Cam Brate and OJ Howard, and yes the financial commitment to Brate reflects that Howard is not necessarily the guy they hoped.

    So you ask me if Gesicki stacks up better for me than OJ Howard, and that is an easy answer for me. Yes. Easily. As does Mark Andrews, IMO.

    David Njoku is tougher. Njoku DID have a bunch of those natural play making skills in addition to the athleticism. But so does Gesicki. Njoku was also IMO a **** blocker, like Gesicki. I give the edge to the guy with the better SIZE because it can matter. That is Gesicki.
     
  27. CaSh

    CaSh Nothing bigga than the B

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    We're worried about his speed now? Look at Gronk, slow as rocks dumb as rocks and still gets it done because he's huge. Everyone relax
     
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  28. Blancgary911

    Blancgary911 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that thought came to my mind when I saw that contract for Brate...........Thanks for the insight
     
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  29. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    Mike Gesicki brings a Small Foward/Power Foward type athletism to the TE position, especially, in the Red Zone. He can simply out jump most players that will cover him. He has tremendously strong hands and may be able to hold onto most footballs, in a contested ball situation, whereas, others may not. His Volleyball background which was recognized as top notch by the state of New Jersey, helps in terms of those same contested ball situations, because of his prowess around the Net. I believe he has the makings of a generstional type TE prospect. His work ethic is second to none. And any short comings that may pop up during his play, he'll address until he feels he's corrected them.
     
  30. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    Well said, he has to be coached up for sure.
     
  31. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    Every rookie has to be coached up and can be considered 'raw'. However it seems as if you are emphasizing that Gesicki is 'VERY' raw. What are you getting at here? Very raw as compared to who? OJ Howard when he was drafted? How has Mike's limitations due to being 'VERY raw' affected him in college?
     
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  32. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Very raw may not have been the best words but in terms of of where is when it comes to knowing pro assignments? Yes he is. The very raw saying was more towards the comment that he wasn't the prospect Njoku and Howard were. Honestly would not have shocked me if Gesicki had snuck into the first with his athleticism. He's gotta work on technique but there's no reason he can't be a guy who at the very least outjumps defenders as a rookie then becomes a top notch TE by year 2 or 3... especially with how Gase schemes to get TEs open
     
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  33. Aqua ‘N Orange

    Aqua ‘N Orange Active Member

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    Howard, Njoku, Gesicki

    In terms of raw I’d put Njoku on top of the list. Howard still has to contend with Cameron Brate for looks and targets.
     
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  34. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    Njoku was raw

    Howard is very good but Tampa struggled last year

    Gesicki reminds me of Jordan Cameron(hopefully the Cleveland one)
     
  35. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Actually Gronkowski is very fast, he pulls away from LB's. We don't have a time on him because he was recovering form a season out from back injury when the combine rolled around, but if he were healthy and ran he would have tested around a 4.6 I'm guessing based on his play speed in college. Looking at him in the NFL, he's definitely fast.

    That's part of the problem facing him. He is way too big and long for DB's and too fast for most LB's except those new-breed types that are 6'0 lightweight safeties for all intents and purposes. He is the very definition of the mismatch TE.

    While Gesicki isn't as muscular and maybe an inch shorter than Gronkowski, they are similar. Gesicki is likely faster and jumps significantly higher, so they are similar as red zone threats, and Gesicki might pull away from LB's even faster than Gronkowski, so in the passing game, Gesicki's upside is virtually unlimited.
     
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  36. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    True, and the general rule in the NFL is that TE's take 2 years to develop, so no matter how good Gesicki is this year, he projects to be even better next year. With that in mind, don't close the book on guys like OJ Howard or David Njoku just yet, as they're in that developmental phase still too.
     
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  37. Nawledge

    Nawledge Scout Team

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    mcsorely was looking to gesicki as his go to guy on short yardage situations more this past season, thats why his ypc went down and he had more catches, teams even knew the ball was going to gesicki in those situations too
     
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  38. BenchFiedler

    BenchFiedler Undrafted Pro-Bowler

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    To be honest TE's are hit or miss even if they had outstanding college careers. One example: The Colts drafted Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen at the same time/same draft except that Dwayne Allen was drafted later but was making more plays than Fleener who many thought would be the next Gronk. That combo never translated into anything special. Travis Kelce is another one who many felt was not a 1st round talent. He is probably the best TE in the NFL right now.
     
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  39. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Actually, I think Dwayne Allen was drafted before Fleener, and Allen was rated ahead of him, started ahead of him, and lasted longer than him. It doesn't always work out that way (e.g. RGIII and Kirk Cousins), but this time it worked out as planned. IMHO, Fleener never lived up to his potential.
     
  40. BenchFiedler

    BenchFiedler Undrafted Pro-Bowler

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    Allen was drafted 64th overall while Fleener was drafted 34th overall in 2012.
     

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