Mike Gesicki, What’s The Plan? | Page 14 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Mike Gesicki, What’s The Plan?

The fault lies with Gase and the fact that the boy genius was totally clueless how to use Mike Gisecki. If Gase was the brilliant offensive mind that he claimed to be he would have schemed Gisecki open early in the season to give the kid some confidence. Instead, he fills his head with a ton of stuff that he never did at Penn St. and leaves him playing very slowly trying to gather it all in. New Coaches should simplify his role and set him up for success. Gase set him up for failure imo. There's going to be problems in NY when they start losing.
 
Bottom line-stay pat at the TE position. We invested a bunch of draft capital last year at the position, a 2 & a 4. We have enough TE's going forward. Gisecki needs to work within a system that has a running game and an excellent QB. He has had WAY below average QBs throwing him the ball and WAY below average coaching and has been asked to excel within a fatal framework, can't happen. I think Fitz will find him often and all will be well. MG just needs some success to build on.

Hoops, I noticed you taking some lumps about Tannehill. Don't feel bad brother, the same failures in Tannehill's game drives me nuts. You believed he would naturally develop creativity and pocket presence, with reps. Inexplicably he didn't. Who doesn't get better with reps?? Baffling!! Of course, the injuries really killed things. It was a perfect storm for failure. It will be damn interesting to see how Tannehill does going forward with the Titans. I wonder how many of our fellow posters have never been wrong about a player?
 
The fault lies with Gase and the fact that the boy genius was totally clueless how to use Mike Gisecki. If Gase was the brilliant offensive mind that he claimed to be he would have schemed Gisecki open early in the season to give the kid some confidence. Instead, he fills his head with a ton of stuff that he never did at Penn St. and leaves him playing very slowly trying to gather it all in. New Coaches should simplify his role and set him up for success. Gase set him up for failure imo. There's going to be problems in NY when they start losing.

News Flash - In the NFL, ALL TE's NEED TO BE ABLE TO BLOCK! Some do it better than others, but they all block, sooner or later. Learning to block is something colligate football does on a "hit or miss" basis. Some college programs are better then others. In the NFL, only kickers and QB's do not train to block. Sometimes even they throw a block. When that happens it makes the highlight coverage.
 
News Flash - In the NFL, ALL TE's NEED TO BE ABLE TO BLOCK! Some do it better than others, but they all block, sooner or later. Learning to block is something colligate football does on a "hit or miss" basis. Some college programs are better then others. In the NFL, only kickers and QB's do not train to block. Sometimes even they throw a block. When that happens it makes the highlight coverage.


That's really not true at all. Zach Ertz can't block his way out of a wet paper sack. He consistently receives negative grades in his blocking and is known for his whiff and ole' blocks on the All-22. I've got a bunch of 'em I can show you. But he's one of the most productive pass catchers in the league at the position.

You don't have to be a devastating blocker to be a productive TE in the NFL. Very few of the top pass catching TE's in the league are even good blockers. It doesn't come naturally to 'em.

Gesicki's issues aren't his blocking. It's his balance, ability to be bumped off his route against physicality, and keeping his feet on the ground and being a football player when the ball is in his hands that are the issues he has to overcome to be a good and productive player. Secondly, being utilized in a role that doesn't highlight his flaws.
 
Slimm said it very well here. Ray, you have every right in the world to that opinion, I think this is more about Gase than Gisecki. I think if Gase coached him up differently the results would have been better. It's like telling the greatest oil painter in the world that he must first master water colors.
 
Gronk the greatest tight end of all time and gesicki test scores and measurables comps

:lmfao:


“Waiter...check please!!!”
 
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Anti-Gronk eh? Let's look at a few data points.

………………………………….Rob Gronkowski.....Mike Gesicki…..Jimmy Graham
Bench Press...……………………….23...….....…...….22……………………(Less than 19)
40 Time...…………………………….NA.(~4.6)..………..4.54*...……………...4.56
Vertical Jump...…………………….NA.(~35)..……….41.5*...……………...38.5
Broad Jump...……………………...NA..………………..10.9*…………………10.0
Three Cone...……………………….NA...……………..…6.76*………………....6.9
Short Shuttle...…………………….NA...………………..4.10*………………….NA
Long Shuttle...……………………..NA...………………11.33*………………..11.76

Note: * represents a category where Mike Gesicki was the best TE in his draft class.

Data obtained from NFL.com here:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2018&workout=FORTY_YARD_DASH&position=TE

We know that Gronk is a physical freak. And he has size. Gronk is about 6 foot 6.5 inches tall, and Gesicki is 6 foot 5.5 inches tall, so yes, Gronk has 1 inch in height. And yes, Gronk benched 1 more rep than Gesicki. But to call him the anti-Gronk is simply not accurate. They are comparable physically, with Gronk being the more powerful and slightly bigger guy but with Gesicki being faster, more explosive, and better jumper. The biggest play difference is that Gronkowsi is an exceptional blocker in the run game and decent in the passing game, and Gesicki is not good in either aspect of blocking yet, and may never be. But as a receiver … yeah, you're incorrect to call Gesicki the anti-Gronk.

The kid had a decent rookie season … but you were expecting instant-HoF'er … sorry to surprise you, but almost no TE's are instant-HoF'ers as rookies … least of all ones on teams with epically bad offenses like the 2019 Miami Dolphins.

Give the kid a chance … he's going to become a good NFL TE.

When Gronkowski was coming out he was so much different in style of play, he was easily the best tight end prospect in years and could do it all, powerful, coordinated, blocking technique and balance were hi level, great hands, core strength was evident, Gesicki’s traits were opposite coming out..

Not sure there has ever been more different players at the same position..

He’s a dolphin so I’m gonna root for the guy, hopefully we can scheme him open, he does have decent hands, jumping ability and strait speed, all about the free release.
 
Slimm said it very well here. Ray, you have every right in the world to that opinion, I think this is more about Gase than Gisecki. I think if Gase coached him up differently the results would have been better. It's like telling the greatest oil painter in the world that he must first master water colors.

Interesting. In this analogy are you inferring Gesicki is akin to "the greatest..." at some aspect of his PRO game?

If so -- it would appear you've seen "something" that no one else has even glimpsed!

I'd say this -- if the new coaching staff can turn this dude into a viable NFL dog then they we really got something!

But I think the best case scenario with Gesicki is that he's moderately productive as a one trick pony.

((Just hope he don't play like a pony who just came out of the womb))
 
That's really not true at all. Zach Ertz can't block his way out of a wet paper sack. He consistently receives negative grades in his blocking and is known for his whiff and ole' blocks on the All-22. I've got a bunch of 'em I can show you. But he's one of the most productive pass catchers in the league at the position.

You don't have to be a devastating blocker to be a productive TE in the NFL. Very few of the top pass catching TE's in the league are even good blockers. It doesn't come naturally to 'em.

Gesicki's issues aren't his blocking. It's his balance, ability to be bumped off his route against physicality, and keeping his feet on the ground and being a football player when the ball is in his hands that are the issues he has to overcome to be a good and productive player. Secondly, being utilized in a role that doesn't highlight his flaws.

There is always a degree of skill variation at all offensive and defensive positions. That is not the same thing as having no skill at all.

In the last couple of decades I have read the response's from many NFL players that the most difficult part of transitioning to the NFL was learning how to block. Most of this time was while I lived in Ohio where I first was a Browns fan and later a Bengals fan. That is when I was most interested in football and where I got a lot of this information.

Since then I've lived in North Carolina where I became a Panthers fan, then eventually following John Fox and the teams he coached for. This all led up to me following Gase to the Dolphins. Over that time I can recall reading about players needing to learn to block; be it the Bears or Denver or the Panthers or the Bengals.

Blocking is not a new concept, and it continues to this day. There are blocking TE's who do more blocking then catching and there are receiving TE's that are viewed more as receivers then blockers. The reality is that all offensive players are used to block at times except for QB's and kickers. Sometimes even those guys do throw a block, and when they do it is usually news worthy.
 
There is always a degree of skill variation at all offensive and defensive positions. That is not the same thing as having no skill at all.

In the last couple of decades I have read the response's from many NFL players that the most difficult part of transitioning to the NFL was learning how to block. Most of this time was while I lived in Ohio where I first was a Browns fan and later a Bengals fan. That is when I was most interested in football and where I got a lot of this information.

Since then I've lived in North Carolina where I became a Panthers fan, then eventually following John Fox and the teams he coached for. This all led up to me following Gase to the Dolphins. Over that time I can recall reading about players needing to learn to block; be it the Bears or Denver or the Panthers or the Bengals.

Blocking is not a new concept, and it continues to this day. There are blocking TE's who do more blocking then catching and there are receiving TE's that are viewed more as receivers then blockers. The reality is that all offensive players are used to block at times except for QB's and kickers. Sometimes even those guys do throw a block, and when they do it is usually news worthy.

With Gesickis skillset it’s even hard for him to get into the right athletic position to learn how to apply proper technique...

I want him to be better but I can’t deny what my eyes have been telling me, there is something not right about his balance, coordination and core strength, it’s a combination of his height, length of extremeties relative to his coordination skills that keeps his from positioning his body correctly on even the most simple blocks..He simply cannot do it fundamentally imo..Now can he get better, sure, but the starting point is the worst I’ve ever seen personally..

So for me, like when he was coming out, he’s just a big wide receiver..so use his accordingly..
 
When Gronkowski was coming out he was so much different in style of play, he was easily the best tight end prospect in years and could do it all, powerful, coordinated, blocking technique and balance were hi level, great hands, core strength was evident, Gesicki’s traits were opposite coming out..

Not sure there has ever been more different players at the same position..

He’s a dolphin so I’m gonna root for the guy, hopefully we can scheme him open, he does have decent hands, jumping ability and strait speed, all about the free release.
Actually the traits that made Gronkowski a 1st round prospect (who fell to the 2nd because of the serious back injury) were his length and speed. The blocking was a bonus. The two things that made Gesicki a top prospect were his length and speed but without the blocking prowess. You can see what you like, but it was those two key attributes--being 6'6 and fast--that took both prospects from mid-round prospects to high round prospects. Both had exceptional hands as well, with Gesicki coming in as the best catch percentage TE in his draft as well as the best contested catch percentage TE in his draft. Likewise, Gronkowski had a good catch percentage in college before the injury.

Like it or not, the two are very similar with the exception of Gronkowski's exceptional blocking ability … which is NOT why he is among the top paid TE's … it's all about his receiving mismatch abilities …. of length and speed.
 
Shannon Sharpe didn’t get into the HOF because of his blocking. In fact, he was pretty much a glorified WR.
 
Actually the traits that made Gronkowski a 1st round prospect (who fell to the 2nd because of the serious back injury) were his length and speed. The blocking was a bonus. The two things that made Gesicki a top prospect were his length and speed but without the blocking prowess. You can see what you like, but it was those two key attributes--being 6'6 and fast--that took both prospects from mid-round prospects to high round prospects. Both had exceptional hands as well, with Gesicki coming in as the best catch percentage TE in his draft as well as the best contested catch percentage TE in his draft. Likewise, Gronkowski had a good catch percentage in college before the injury.

Like it or not, the two are very similar with the exception of Gronkowski's exceptional blocking ability … which is NOT why he is among the top paid TE's … it's all about his receiving mismatch abilities …. of length and speed.
I don't think they are similar because they are both tall and can run, that isn't grounds to say they are similar imo.

yes, size and ability to run were factors as well with Gronk, He was a blue chip prospect through and through, a very easy prospect to project, and yes you are correct, teams who didn't do quality research on his back issues at Arizona state missed on the player badly.

imo they couldn't be any farther apart in movement skills, strength, coordination...one is a big wide receiver at best, the other is a complete hall of fame tight end..
 
I don't think they are similar because they are both tall and can run, that isn't grounds to say they are similar imo.

yes, size and ability to run were factors as well with Gronk, He was a blue chip prospect through and through, a very easy prospect to project, and yes you are correct, teams who didn't do quality research on his back issues at Arizona state missed on the player badly.

imo they couldn't be any farther apart in movement skills, strength, coordination...one is a big wide receiver at best, the other is a complete hall of fame tight end..
Trust me, coming into his draft from the University of Arizona (you accidently wrote "Arizona state" so I struck through the state part), Rob Gronkowski had no bigger fan than me. I was literally jumping up and down screaming to draft him when we had the chance in the 2nd … I called it the greatest steal of all time. And we didn't, two picks later he became a Patriot. I'm _very_ aware of what Rob Gronkowski is as a prospect and player. As a rookie I had to explain to Patriot fans at work that he was their fantastic TE, not Aaron Hernandez. I have been singing his praises as a receiver and blocker since before he was drafted, and followed his career very closely. I even have posted metrics about how his presence on the field improves Brady's YPA and the run game's average yardage per snap every time he's in the game. I'm extremely familiar with Rob Gronkowski's game and its impact on his team.

You seem to think that the only way to compare them is by comparing power. Well, it's not. The primary traits of each are length and speed, with the primary skill being good hands.

I get it, you want to compare ONLY blocking ability … because that's just about the only thing that is different about the two. Well … that is an incomplete analysis. I'm done disagreeing with you, as we obviously see it differently. I only ask that you re-evaluate in 1 year … and see how you view Gesicki as a TE then. He'll never be an Anthony Fasano blocking TE, but as a move TE whose primary role is catching passes, I hope you grow to recognize the similarity in style and gifts. If not … well I will simply agree to disagree.
 
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Actually the traits that made Gronkowski a 1st round prospect (who fell to the 2nd because of the serious back injury) were his length and speed. The blocking was a bonus. The two things that made Gesicki a top prospect were his length and speed but without the blocking prowess. You can see what you like, but it was those two key attributes--being 6'6 and fast--that took both prospects from mid-round prospects to high round prospects. Both had exceptional hands as well, with Gesicki coming in as the best catch percentage TE in his draft as well as the best contested catch percentage TE in his draft. Likewise, Gronkowski had a good catch percentage in college before the injury.

Like it or not, the two are very similar with the exception of Gronkowski's exceptional blocking ability … which is NOT why he is among the top paid TE's … it's all about his receiving mismatch abilities …. of length and speed.



That’s not why Gronk was among the top paid at tight end and going down as the goat. It was because he was never a tell for the opposition run or pass. And could carve you up in both phases. Hell the guy routinely handled des as a blocker one on one with no help and I’m talking at the poa even. I saw that dude hold edge defenders at bay with one arm even like it was a walk in the park.

In his prime he ran thru contact and dropped would be tacklers like kindle wood and stiff armed them into the dirt and couldn’t be taken down one on one in space with the ball. It took an army.

He won on iso he won in the red zone he won flexed he won split he won in line. He won on everything he did.
 
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