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Steve S

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Surtain to the Chefs for a 4 in 2005 and a 2 next year makes sense. I'd rather have the two this year for a player like Matt Jones, Luis Castillo or Brodney Pool. Charlie Frye wouldn't be bad either. Lots of ways we could go with that #46 overall.

Many Chief fans think we're cutting #23 anyway. Read the KC Star Chef newsgroup. Funny stuff.

You could argue that their D is in worst shape than our O. I think we have better young players in place on our offense.

Mario Edwards. Start the party.

Pro Football Talk has hit a new low. They actually wrote that Saban was wrong for not trading Pat for a 4th rounder. Because "he's not in their plans, he probably doesn't want to be there.....blah, blah" When does their hatred for Saban end, or their bias and stupidity?

They've been much worse since Peter King gave them an endorsement a few weeks ago.

I thought Jimmy Johnson should have drafted Jamie Sharper in 1997. Bring him in Nick, along with Earl Little
 

KB21

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A 2nd next year is worth a 3rd this year in value. You cannot sit there and tell me that Surtain's value is worth only a 4th round pick more than Duane Starks.

KC can either gives us their 2nd this year AND their 4th round pick, or they can give us their 4th round pick AND their 1st round pick next year.
 

Pinrod33

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I agree on both ideas about the value of Surtain. While I'm starting to think that the 4th this year and the second next is not fair, It might be the best we get. I do think there is a good shot we get their 2nd, but who knows. We need someone to jump in with even just a similar deal, or a third or something. In my position even if it was 1 spot higher than what KC is offering, I would take it before I would take KC's offer. You know like a slap in the face for trying to play hardball
 

Pinrod33

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But in the long run, I like the idea of Nick just telling them, "you know what, I think were going to hang on to ol' Pat here, and see what happens next year. Oh yea, by the way, have fun giving up 90 points a game"
 

Noodleman

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Question?

The reality is if a player like Edge or Alexander can be had for a 2nd rounder then no way is Surtain worth more than that. I think Surtain is a awesome corner but giving up draft picks AND signing him to a huge contract is expensive. Don't over inflate his value because your biased. If the fins got a 4th this year and a 2nd next, that is good value for him!
 

McDuffie81

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I would NOT be happy to get a 4th this yr and 2nd next. KC will have a better yr this yr which will make that 2nd crappier.
 

Noodleman

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One more quick question....why is everyone getting on KC for their offer? Its a business, if they can get Surtain for less than asking price why act like they are ripping us off. Just because Spielman is an idiot and doesn't know how to bargain(Ex. Feeley and Gordon) does not mean that most teams don't try to get a better deal. The Chiefs offer is a starting point....I doubt they think they will get him for that.
 

McDuffie81

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Noodleman said:
The reality is if a player like Edge or Alexander can be had for a 2nd rounder then no way is Surtain worth more than that. I think Surtain is a awesome corner but giving up draft picks AND signing him to a huge contract is expensive. Don't over inflate his value because your biased. If the fins got a 4th this year and a 2nd next, that is good value for him!
Corners have more value than RBs. Noone is over inflating anything. A 4th this yr and 2nd yr next sucks.
 

KB21

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Noodleman said:
The reality is if a player like Edge or Alexander can be had for a 2nd rounder then no way is Surtain worth more than that. I think Surtain is a awesome corner but giving up draft picks AND signing him to a huge contract is expensive. Don't over inflate his value because your biased. If the fins got a 4th this year and a 2nd next, that is good value for him!
You are comparing the value of a great cornerback to the value of a great running back. There is no comparison.

There are four positions in football that carry a higher value than the other positions. Those positions are quarterback, offensive tackle, defensive end, and cornerback. All of the other positions fall in behind these positions in terms of value.

Trading a 2nd round pick for a great running back is value for that running back, but it isn't value for a great cornerback, quarterback, offensive tackle, or defensive end.

Patrick Surtain is a great cornerback. He has more value to a football team than Edgerrin James or Shaun Alexander. Cornerbacks of his caliber are much more difficult to find than runners the caliber of James and Alexander. This adds to the value of a great one.

At least Nick Saban realizes this, and this will bear out in future drafts as I can see Nick drafting cornerbacks and defensive linemen with several high draft picks in the future.
 

Marino1983

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Steve S said:
Surtain to the Chefs for a 4 in 2005 and a 2 next year makes sense. I'd rather have the two this year for a player like Matt Jones, Luis Castillo or Brodney Pool. Charlie Frye wouldn't be bad either. Lots of ways we could go with that #46 overall.
Absolutely not!!!
That would be a Wannstedt move and Surtain is still a top 5 c-b in this league..
If the Squaws want to upgrade their secondary to championship status then it is going to cost them a 2nd this season and a 4th next year...
The one thing that Saban has already brought to this organization before even the draft, is a set of standards that will not be compromised!
:D

Marino1983
 

Noodleman

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You don't need to talk to me about positions of value. I know corners are worth more than running backs, or at least used to be. The patriots won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown playing in their defensive backfield. You are overinflating the value of Surtain. If corners are worth as much as you say then why are the Chiefs the only team interested in dealing with the fins? Is it because Surtain isn't as good as you think? or is it because the market for a great corner is not as strong as you believe? I think it is the latter. I know Surtain is a great corner, but the truth is draft picks are like gold. Getting a 2nd and a 4th for him,IMO, is worth the trade. If I had to make a guess, I would believe that if the Chiefs offer this, Saban will take it. IMO that is good value for Surtain. You have your opinion, I have mine.
 

Noodleman

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One more point, Champ Bailey(great corner) was acquired for Clinton Portis(great RB). It seems that some believe RB is as important as CB. Why do people think Saban wouldn't trade Surtain for a 2nd AND a 4th when he was only asking for a 2nd to start with?
 

Sean LaChapelle

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Steve S said:
Surtain to the Chefs for a 4 in 2005 and a 2 next year makes sense. I'd rather have the two this year for a player like Matt Jones, Luis Castillo or Brodney Pool. Charlie Frye wouldn't be bad either. Lots of ways we could go with that #46 overall.

Many Chief fans think we're cutting #23 anyway. Read the KC Star Chef newsgroup. Funny stuff.

You could argue that their D is in worst shape than our O. I think we have better young players in place on our offense.

Mario Edwards. Start the party.

Pro Football Talk has hit a new low. They actually wrote that Saban was wrong for not trading Pat for a 4th rounder. Because "he's not in their plans, he probably doesn't want to be there.....blah, blah" When does their hatred for Saban end, or their bias and stupidity?

They've been much worse since Peter King gave them an endorsement a few weeks ago.

I thought Jimmy Johnson should have drafted Jamie Sharper in 1997. Bring him in Nick, along with Earl Little
hate to break it to you..but matt jones stock has risen so much he could be a first round pick...steelers are eyeing him at 30th overall
 

Pocoloco

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This is a really wild, off-the-wall idea, but would it be possible to trade Surtain for some other player straight up (like an Alexander) and then trade him for a 2nd to a third party (like Arizona or some other team)? This might be a roundabout way to get what we want this year.
 
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