New OC Chan Gailey system is a perfect fit - For Josh Rosen | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

New OC Chan Gailey system is a perfect fit - For Josh Rosen

What was the difference in Fitzpatrick pre- benching to post-benching?

1st, the early games switching between RF and Rosen
Passing - RF 25th, Rosen 31st
Passing under pressure - RF 11, Rosen 18
QBR - RF 38 and 5, Rosen - 4, 53, 57
The WASH game was the watershed - QBR - RF 71, Rosen 3,
Comp % - RF 67%, Rosen 60%

1st two games after RF took over - QBR 40, comp % 60
After that - comp % stayed around 65-70, QBR 3 highest = 80, 85, 90. 3 lowest = 36, 32, 57 inconsistent
 
Debatable...

Fitzpatrick was replaced because the oline was God-awful. Rosen stepped into that same God-awfulness that got Fitzpatrick replaced.

As much as I criticize them, eventually the oline improved (they could ONLY go up) when Fitzpatrick replaced Rosen. That same improvement could have been with Rosen.

Time will tell if we were good at developing Rosen.

I like this post. It's spot on.
 
1st, the early games switching between RF and Rosen
Passing - RF 25th, Rosen 31st
Passing under pressure - RF 11, Rosen 18
QBR - RF 38 and 5, Rosen - 4, 53, 57
The WASH game was the watershed - QBR - RF 71, Rosen 3,
Comp % - RF 67%, Rosen 60%

1st two games after RF took over - QBR 40, comp % 60
After that - comp % stayed around 65-70, QBR 3 highest = 80, 85, 90. 3 lowest = 36, 32, 57 inconsistent
I agree with the point you are making. Just here to nitpick on the stat you are using. I encougare you to read up on QBR, it is made up by ESPN and they just wont tell you what they use to build it.... But if you look close enough, you'll spot major inconstistencies.

Further criticism of QBR was brought about when, before some tinkering with the equation of QBR, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Charlie Batch had the greatest individual game ever evaluated by QBR. Batch threw for 186 yards with two interceptions in the game.[13]

On the other side, noted football author and researcher Brian Burke of Advanced NFL Stats opined that QBR was superior to the traditional passer rating.[14] The main advantages, in his opinion, are QBR's accounting for many more events in quarterback play than the old rating, and the fact that it avoids the double-counting that plagues the official NFL passer rating. He did however lament the proprietary nature of the statistic, and predicted it would not become widely used so long as its precise computation details were kept secret (i.e., it is unlikely that CBS, Fox, NBC, and other competing media outlets would want to heavily promote something that is proprietary to ESPN).

Further controversy erupted when the Total QBR system gave the Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow a higher rating than the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers in their respective Week 5 contests in 2011. Noting that Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes for 396 yards and two touchdowns in a win over the Atlanta Falcons, while Tebow completed four of 10 passes for 79 yards and a touchdown, and six rushes for 38 yards and a touchdown, in a loss to the San Diego Chargers. In a more recent example, a game played on September 24, 2017, Alex Smith of Kansas City Chiefs received an inexplicable QBR of 7.8, half as much as the equally-bad QBR of 16.1 for his counterpart Philip Rivers of the Los Angeles Chargers, even though Smith had a higher completion rate (16/21 vs. 20/40), a better average per completion (7.8 yds vs. 5.9), a far superior TD/int ratio (2-0 vs. 0-3), and won the game handily 24-10. For comparison, the RTG, 128.1 for Smith and 37.2 for Rivers, was by far a better metric of success. Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com wrote that he'll "continue to ignore ESPN’s Total QBR stat."[15] Rodgers himself was surprised: "I saw the [QBR stats] and chuckled to myself. I played a full game, [Tebow] played the half. He completed four passes, I completed 26. I think it incorporates QB runs as well ... The weighting of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense."[16] ESPN's Stats and Information Group explained that Tebow's higher rating was the result of him staging a partial comeback, taking no sacks, and having positive rushing yards and a rushing touchdown, among other factors.[17][18] However, Doug Farrar of Yahoo! Sports wrote that the QBR system lacks a minimum performance frequency floor that players must meet before they can be rated, and thus it essentially penalizes Rodgers because he played throughout the entire game, while rewarding Tebow because he came off the bench in the second half in an attempt to stage a comeback.[19]
 
Fitzpatrick got benched because we were getting worked by what was at the time the best defense in the league after getting worked by the 2nd best defense in the league and looked like crap as it happened. Rosen proceeded to come in and look like crap against much worse opponents.

The defensive rankings of the teams Rosen started against:

Washington: 27th

Chargers: 14th

Dallas: 11th

You make it seem as if Rosen was terrible because he was playing the Dolphins. In the bigger picture, Rosen should have been the starter...if you were building for the future.
 
I agree with the point you are making. Just here to nitpick on the stat you are using. I encougare you to read up on QBR, it is made up by ESPN and they just wont tell you what they use to build it.... But if you look close enough, you'll spot major inconstistencies.

Certainly the criteria in QBR is somewhat arbitrary. Don't deny that. However, like a lot of stats, while it's questionable in details, it tends to mirror reality. That is, a QB earning a 5.6 QBR confirms the eyeball test of a terrible game, while a QBR of 140 tends to mirror the eyeball test of a QB having a good game.
Tangentially, there are few stats for a QB that actually track the QB exclusively (including pass completion %). Thus, a lot of debate with people throwing numbers around to prove a QB sucks or is 'great.' In this case, most stats confirm what fans saw . . . RF and Rosen sucked the 1st five games, RF played poorly the next two, and played much better the rest of the season.
 
The defensive rankings of the teams Rosen started against:

Washington: 27th

Chargers: 14th

Dallas: 11th

You make it seem as if Rosen was terrible because he was playing the Dolphins. In the bigger picture, Rosen should have been the starter...if you were building for the future.
Not if he wasn't ready.

There is nothing wrong with sitting a young QB, so that he is better prepared. In fact, it used to be commonplace, and there was good reason.

I understand that, technically, he wasn't a rookie, but his time in AZ probably did more harm than good, and he was very young.
 
Not if he wasn't ready.

There is nothing wrong with sitting a young QB, so that he is better prepared. In fact, it used to be commonplace, and there was good reason.

I understand that, technically, he wasn't a rookie, but his time in AZ probably did more harm than good, and he was very young.
He'll never be ready if he's not put in position to pass or fail....
 
He'll never be ready if he's not put in position to pass or fail....

While you're right, to be consistent, you're point has to be true a large majority of the time. There are a number of rookie QBs who came into the league, and were not "put in position to pass or fail" early or put in the position and failed early, but had good careers. While the overall data may support your case, it isn't enough to make absolutes.
 
While you're right, to be consistent, you're point has to be true a large majority of the time. There are a number of rookie QBs who came into the league, and were not "put in position to pass or fail" early or put in the position and failed early, but had good careers. While the overall data may support your case, it isn't enough to make absolutes.
IDK if the overall data supports that, or not.

It's hard to make apples to apples comparisons. Most QBs taken early are in terrible situation, and under too much pressure to perform early.
 
Actually, OL play improved. Kilgore went from bottom 3rd to top 3rd.
OGs stayed in the cellar
OTs moved from bottom 3rd to middle third.
RFs stats were very close to Rosen's through the 1st few games

Fitz had to play the Ravens and Patriots his first two games. The oline improved but a few games after Fitz became the starter again. The Washington game showed a major difference between the two QBs.
 
IDK if the overall data supports that, or not.

It's hard to make apples to apples comparisons. Most QBs taken early are in terrible situation, and under too much pressure to perform early.

The data MAY support that. I could have been more clear. I doubt it does
 
Fitz had to play the Ravens and Patriots his first two games. The oline improved but a few games after Fitz became the starter again. The Washington game showed a major difference between the two QBs.

Yup. I posted that elsewhere. Fitz overcame the bad start. Rosen didn't.
 
Fitzpatrick got benched because we were getting worked by what was at the time the best defense in the league after getting worked by the 2nd best defense in the league and looked like crap as it happened. Rosen proceeded to come in and look like crap against much worse opponents.

Our line improved yes, but Fitzpatrick has a head and shoulders better feel for escaping pressure and using the middle of the field as running room. He made it work. To say that Rosen would've improved along with the minimal line improvement is a reach because he hasn't really looked good at any point in his career for more than a half of football.

For now, his development shouldn't involve playing on Sundays. Maybe next year, we'll see.


If those what ....4 td passes? by Rosen were not dropped along with the team improving a littel things might have looked a bit different
 
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