Nfl Combine Discussion Thread | Page 35 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Nfl Combine Discussion Thread

Conceptually I like the idea of building the OL so that the entire line can stay in tact and grow with Tunsil. Also, it gives them a year to learn and gel before we add our QB.

But, I still think we go DL in round 1, simply because there are only so many resources. In 2020 we're using our 1st (or possibly multiple picks) to get a QB, and I'm 100% behind doing that. So we're not getting a 1st round pass rusher in 2020. If we don't get one in 2019, that means we're on to 2021 looking to spend a 1st on a pass rusher, and I'd rather be surrounding the QB with talent at that point. So, either we relegate the very important pass rush positions to later round picks or expensive veteran FA's (not usually a good move), or we draft the pass rusher in 2019. So, with 2 starting DE positions open, a total of 3 DE's needed that are currently not on the roster, at least 2 DT's needed that are not currently on the roster, I think we draft DL in round 1 in 2019. I could easily be wrong, but that's how I see it.

There is also great need in DB's, because we were a couple short last year and in 2019 we will be consistently fielding 1 more DB, so that means we're likely to be adding 3 new DB's, with at least 1 of them being a starter. The Patriots often used 3 safeties, but the only safety really set to be a building block of this system is Fitzpatrick, so there's a need there. We need a starting CB2, and at least 1 more CB who will see substantial time. So if we went CB in round 1, it wouldn't really surprise me either, because it is also a major need. But, CB's can be found in every round--albeit with more success in the upper rounds--so I'm only expecting us to draft 1 CB in the first 5 rounds.

OL is a need, and we've shown we cannot scout OL worth a dang. The guys we draft outside the 1st round have been so bad it almost feels like a throw away pick. But the strength of this OL class is in its depth. There are a lot of decent prospects in rounds 2-7. I will be surprised if we draft OL at 13. If we trade back … all bets are off, because we don't know what the talent levels will be where we're drafting. But still, I am expecting 2 OL picks, with neither one being in at 13.

Remember, one test that they do not do for OL is squats. We don't get any real indication of lower body power at the combine. The closest we come is lower body explosion, such as the vertical jump, but that isn't the same thing as power. One area our scouts consistently miss is in judging lower body power, so I hope whomever we draft comes with good technique and some sand in the pants … not just more powder puff ballerinas.
 
I don't disagree with how to build a team but I wouldn't let that stop me from taking advantage of what the draft has to offer. Miami has so many holes that they can almost pluck BPA -- preferably falling talent -- every round and be done with it.

OL isn't great at the top but it's a deep class. Not a chance I draft that at 13 ... I don't know that I'd do it before round 3.

Secondary is also pretty meh this year ... think the pickins will be slim every round. The last umpteen drafts have been littered with secondary talent so Miami drafting multiple DBs sounds about right. I think FA bargains should be a priority ... they need bodies back there in a bad way.

OL, DL, and pass rusher is the meat of this draft and the fins need all 3. See how the board falls and go from there without making up your mind how you're going to do it beforehand. That's how you end up with Tannehill ... James ... Harris ... etc..
 
Digital said:
Conceptually I like the idea of building the OL so that the entire line can stay in tact and grow with Tunsil. Also, it gives them a year to learn and gel before we add our QB.

But, I still think we go DL in round 1, simply because there are only so many resources. In 2020 we're using our 1st (or possibly multiple picks) to get a QB, and I'm 100% behind doing that. So we're not getting a 1st round pass rusher in 2020. If we don't get one in 2019, that means we're on to 2021 looking to spend a 1st on a pass rusher, and I'd rather be surrounding the QB with talent at that point. So, either we relegate the very important pass rush positions to later round picks or expensive veteran FA's (not usually a good move), or we draft the pass rusher in 2019. So, with 2 starting DE positions open, a total of 3 DE's needed that are currently not on the roster, at least 2 DT's needed that are not currently on the roster, I think we draft DL in round 1 in 2019. I could easily be wrong, but that's how I see it.

There is also great need in DB's, because we were a couple short last year and in 2019 we will be consistently fielding 1 more DB, so that means we're likely to be adding 3 new DB's, with at least 1 of them being a starter. The Patriots often used 3 safeties, but the only safety really set to be a building block of this system is Fitzpatrick, so there's a need there. We need a starting CB2, and at least 1 more CB who will see substantial time. So if we went CB in round 1, it wouldn't really surprise me either, because it is also a major need. But, CB's can be found in every round--albeit with more success in the upper rounds--so I'm only expecting us to draft 1 CB in the first 5 rounds.

OL is a need, and we've shown we cannot scout OL worth a dang. The guys we draft outside the 1st round have been so bad it almost feels like a throw away pick. But the strength of this OL class is in its depth. There are a lot of decent prospects in rounds 2-7. I will be surprised if we draft OL at 13. If we trade back … all bets are off, because we don't know what the talent levels will be where we're drafting. But still, I am expecting 2 OL picks, with neither one being in at 13.

Remember, one test that they do not do for OL is squats. We don't get any real indication of lower body power at the combine. The closest we come is lower body explosion, such as the vertical jump, but that isn't the same thing as power. One area our scouts consistently miss is in judging lower body power, so I hope whomever we draft comes with good technique and some sand in the pants … not just more powder puff ballerinas.
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These scouts talk to these teams and these coaches, I do not understand why some do not stop by and chat with the strength and conditioning coach. As much as we think these coaches may fudge things for players, they also have reps as well. Every team keeps track of a player's strength and weight during their career at the school. Go in and find out about their squat and power clean. I said earlier that I want thick legged, big ass guards. You send me someone with a thin lower body or knocked knee and I am passing hard.
 
Squat numbers are known coming out of high school and kept track of the entire time kids are on campus. If I know what the squat numbers are NFL scouts should be able to know also. It's not just combine workout numbers that go into your evaluation.
 
There’s an elite level edge rusher in the league who is bow legged as hell but I can’t remember who it is right now.
 
hoops said:
There’s an elite level edge rusher in the league who is bow legged as hell but I can’t remember who it is right now.
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Bowlegged is fine...the most powerful in the world pound for pound is bow-legged. I just don't want that dude's knees touching when his feet are a foot apart.
 
FSU Truth said:
Bowlegged is fine...the most powerful in the world pound for pound is bow-legged. I just don't want that dude's knees touching when his feet are a foot apart.
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I feel like it’s Myles Garrett I’m thinking of but it may be someone else
 
hoops said:
I feel like it’s Myles Garrett I’m thinking of but it may be someone else
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You may be right.

Many high-level soccer players are bowlegged as well. I want to say AD Peterson is.
 
FSU Truth said:
These scouts talk to these teams and these coaches, I do not understand why some do not stop by and chat with the strength and conditioning coach. As much as we think these coaches may fudge things for players, they also have reps as well. Every team keeps track of a player's strength and weight during their career at the school. Go in and find out about their squat and power clean. I said earlier that I want thick legged, big *** guards. You send me someone with a thin lower body or knocked knee and I am passing hard.
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I wish I knew the answer to that one @FSU Truth , I really do.

The best I can surmise is that the scouting department is so focused on length and footspeed that they simply devalue technique and power far too much. My guess would be that the head of the scouting department (Grier now, but this persists since before Grier was in charge) either doesn't greenlight the scouts and the strength coaches talking, or he tries to juggle the strength coaches' assessment with the independent analysis of the scouts, or maybe we just don't understand how to evaluate power at all.

Ultimately, watching the tape should be the real indicator of ability. There are enough comparables across any collegiate performance to rate power. For instance, common opponents. Unfortunately, bench reps indicate upper body strength, which is far less than lower-body strength and the two are essentially unrelated. But upper body strength (bench press ability) only correlates to upper body power (ability to move defenders or anchor one's own position) if it is applied with good technique and leveraging the superior lower body power. It's like we're building a pyramid but not looking at anything but the top third of it. The more substantial base is at least as important, yet how many reps of a squat weight (endurance) isn't measured, nor is maximum squad (max strength). The speed position metrics are poor to compare OL. Sure, lateral agility is important, but not as important as length. Sure, upper body strength is important to tip defenders off balance, but probably not as important as lower body power. The speed with which an OL runs 40 yards is minimally important. Sure, maybe his 10 yard split is worth noticing, but even that is started from a sprinter's stance … not a typical OL stance. If you want to measure explosion out of a stance …. why not test them coming out of that stance?

If I could individually interview OL prospects, I would do a lot more and different drills than the combine does. What we see on tape is what matters. Then talking through that tape with the kid is where we really learn how likely he is to take that next step.

Whatever the Dolphins do, it seems to work for certain positions, but not for OL. Unless they have a blue-chip prospect like Laremy Tunsil, Jake Long, or Mike Pouncey, they routinely screw it up. And even with the blue-chippers, we manage to screw it up more than most.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Squat numbers are known coming out of high school and kept track of the entire time kids are on campus. If I know what the squat numbers are NFL scouts should be able to know also. It's not just combine workout numbers that go into your evaluation.
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True, but do those numbers measure endurance the way the bench press does? The Combine's method of measuring upper body strength is how many reps of 225 a kid can do before exhaustion. Is there some metric tracked across these kids collegiate careers to measure their squat endurance like that?
 
What’s up with that 7.38 3 cone of metcalfs? That doesn’t bode well for short area quicks.
 
Who are some second round corners that you guys think would be scheme fits? Corners seem like a tough scout this year. I really liked Chauncey-Gardner Johnson from Florida he had bad tape as a sophomore but really improved this year, he has a chippy demeanor and wants to be great, seems like he’s projecting as a safety in NFL but tested well, I think he could be a really good NFL Nickel. Curious if he could possibly play safety with Minkah. David Long and Isaiah Johnson both looked good at combine but i don’t know enough about either to say their options in round 2
 
BobDole said:
I don't disagree with how to build a team but I wouldn't let that stop me from taking advantage of what the draft has to offer. Miami has so many holes that they can almost pluck BPA -- preferably falling talent -- every round and be done with it.

OL isn't great at the top but it's a deep class. Not a chance I draft that at 13 ... I don't know that I'd do it before round 3.

Secondary is also pretty meh this year ... think the pickins will be slim every round. The last umpteen drafts have been littered with secondary talent so Miami drafting multiple DBs sounds about right. I think FA bargains should be a priority ... they need bodies back there in a bad way.

OL, DL, and pass rusher is the meat of this draft and the fins need all 3. See how the board falls and go from there without making up your mind how you're going to do it beforehand. That's how you end up with Tannehill ... James ... Harris ... etc..
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I disagree Bob. The truly elite pass rushers are going to be gone by 13 - along with Devin White, Q. Williams, etc.

There's some great offensive line talent in this draft. Go watch the film of Garrett Bradbury kicking Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence's asses. He was reach blocking Dexter to the ground and then getting on the linebacker Kendall Joseph so fast it was incredible. He was getting on Wilkins and hip turning him flat on his back. Hip checking and judo flipping his ass. This kid is an elite talent.

Go watch Erik McCoy against Quinnen Williams. He's the only center all season that could hold up to Q. The combine numbers only confirm what was already on film. These guys are going to be two of the best players that come out of this entire draft. You can't find better centers for zoning up front in any draft.
 
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