I don't know about that. People honestly believe that we'll be okay with a mediocre QB if we just build a badass defense. Going back to the Baltimore argument, that defense wouldn't be allowed to do half the **** that made it great in today's NFL.
Nfl Qb Position: Absolute Or Relative?
- Thread starter BigNastyFish
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I don't know about that. People honestly believe that we'll be okay with a mediocre QB if we just build a badass defense. Going back to the Baltimore argument, that defense wouldn't be allowed to do half the **** that made it great in today's NFL.
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Don't disagree, but no one has to watch FH long to find those saying 'keep trying until we get an elite QB.'
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Really depends on how broad or narrow one's definition of "elite" is. Range could be from "best in class" to a "select group." The point I'm trying to explore is that it's more about a particular level of consistent performance and NOT essential to have a certified super hero... Bottom line, highly doubtful we're going to land the next Mahomes or Rodgers. But we certainly need a player that's in the top level -- probably top 10 -- to be a serious challenger.
Consider the following list -- which roughly represents (IMO) the "top half" of QBs last season. Unsure how many would subjectively be rated "elite," but I see 5-10 depending on the lens. That said, I'd consider the top 10 to be "good enough" to win with consistently, and probably a few more could sneak into that category. The problem we've had is our QB play has been BELOW the average grade this group collectively demonstrates.
Mahomes
Rodgers
Drew Brees
Andrew Luck
Matt Ryan
Rivers
Brady
Roethlisberger
Baker Mayfield
Russell Wilson
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Cam Newton
Deshaun Watson
Dak Prescott
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I agree on the vague definition. I call Brees/Brady elite. That's it. Nonetheless, I also agree on 'top 10.' What people fail to appreciate is Brees has been around 18? years. Any list of 'top 10' QBs, includes guys from, say 2001>2016 (too early to have a definite opinion on guys like Wentz). we all know how many elite QBs from 2000> 2016? Nonetheless, 10 top QBs in 16 years. Not a good gamble, yet, some make it sound like getting a top 10 QB, ignoring elite, is no more difficult than buying bananas.
Consider, also, 10 QBs in 16 years for 32 teams. There's a reason teams try and fail over and over. It's hard. They may try in a year when there isn't a future top 10 QB, or he may go 2 picks before 'my' team is on the clock, or if my team tries to move up, it's outbid by another. This also ignore the importance of a HC.
Yeah, top 10. That's a more realistic goal than elite. I think you have "it's more about a particular level of consistent performance and NOT essential to have a certified super hero" exactly right. Finally, I agree Miami (and many other teams) have had below average QBs for a long time. Some haven't tried hard enough, some have tried often and failed. In any case, below average doesn't get it done.
It not 100% essential, but it helps alot, and even if you don't have a franchise QB, you better have a very good, somewhat consistent QB, and a special defense and/or running game.
The Giants won 4 SB with no real franchise QB, the Ravens won 2, the Bears won 1, the Eagles won 1, Raiders won 2 of 3, Redskins won 2 of 3, Tampa won 1. All really didn't have a very stable or consistent QB. Hell even the last Broncos SB win was with a broken down Peyton Manning.
The Giants won 4 SB with no real franchise QB, the Ravens won 2, the Bears won 1, the Eagles won 1, Raiders won 2 of 3, Redskins won 2 of 3, Tampa won 1. All really didn't have a very stable or consistent QB. Hell even the last Broncos SB win was with a broken down Peyton Manning.
Sounds like a semantics issue. I'm proudly one of those who wants to keep trying until we land an elite QB. Nothing else matters. No more of these mediocre QBs (Tannehill, etc.). There are several elite QBs in the league, I'm sure there can be more. No interest whatsoever in building an elite team around a mediocre QB.
The Eagles are the only team in that list that really matters when discussing today's pass happy NFL and they got there on the arm of a very good and potentially elite QB in Wentz. As for the Broncos, Manning's passing skill was diminished, but he's still one of the smartest QBs to play the game, dropping him from elite to very good (continuing the semantics discussion). Eli and Simms were both good, not great QBs and certainly not mediocre QBs.
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I look at it this way...
my yammie fans are collectively coming out of the hazy foggy sticky
gooey pigskin diarrhea of the amazingly average Thill era. Of course we
want an elitist @QB! I bet we'd even settle for a socialist as long as the
dude can throw the rock into itsy bitsy windows and not break any glass!
Have a nice day!
BNF
my yammie fans are collectively coming out of the hazy foggy sticky
gooey pigskin diarrhea of the amazingly average Thill era. Of course we
want an elitist @QB! I bet we'd even settle for a socialist as long as the
dude can throw the rock into itsy bitsy windows and not break any glass!
Have a nice day!
BNF
Exactly.... The 85’ Bears , 00’ Ravens and 01’ Bucs all won with average QB’s and top ten all time defenses... if not top 5.
What are the better odds?
Building a top 5 all-time defense? Or finding an elite level quarterback?
I would suggest the latter is far more likely!
Agreed, and it's much easier to find an elite QB, especially now.
39wildman
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I agree but they will not win today.
The point was... your not likely to build a defense that good... so find a great QB.
You got it. Mahomes is 6'2 though.