No Matter how Bad!!! | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

No Matter how Bad!!!

2nd.worst.post.ever.

The o.p. never said anything about settling for anything less than the SB.



Have we come farther than 2007? Is our football team better than that one? Yes. On both counts. That Debbie Downer Award was the worst idea ever.

He didn't say it. I never said he did. His post was about how no matter what, we are better than 2007, as if that was something to be happy about.

Its like being being thankful that the alligator eats you last. Its a LOSERS mentality. That being said, I am not surprised you like it. Note how I did not call you a loser.
 
He didn't say it. I never said he did. His post was about how no matter what, we are better than 2007, as if that was something to be happy about.

Its like being being thankful that the alligator eats you last. Its a LOSERS mentality. That being said, I am not surprised you like it. Note how I did not call you a loser.

losing is for losers - in 2007 we lost 15 times - this year we won 6 more games - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we're a better team than we were 2 years ago - which was the bottom line of his post - note how i didn't say you hang out at the bottom line
 
I didn't even know there was a Debbie Downer award..but I can assure you, I am very much ok with it because many (if not most) here are Pollyanna Denialists who continue to think we are "this close" and post clueless nonsense trying to back it up with baseless and absurd assertions. Games mean nothing to some of you people. The roster means nothing to some of you people. Seeing what other teams have on their roster means nothing to some of you people. I tell the truth. I am always happy to be recognized for honesty.


I have never been to any "county lock up". Can't get arrested in my job as a military analyst. I track some pretty nefarious dudes and the Army takes that kind of thing fairly serious.

If that was a joke, it was a very bad one. If that was serious, you are pathetic. Anyway....


hey Geaux, ever read something from a person who was obviously taking themselves too seriously? I know I have.

For the record, I care about our roster, I care about the games we play, and I am quite certain I evaluate other teams capabilities and talent level fairly often; so I really would take offense to being thrown into a category conjured from a "baseless and absurd" assertion. If, in fact, that is what you were doing.

I don't believe I have ever been quoted as saying we were "this close" I may be wrong, I'm not a military analyst; as we know military analysts are the only sect of persons who can be held without error. I will, however, say that I do gauge this team as a competitive one, against any current team in the league. We are missing key components and a base level talent. What we do have is a very strong mental game and a winning culture, which is a very big part of the game. For that reason alone I would say this team is far superior than the one that took the field in 2007.

I wouldn't say that I'm an eternal optimist, I would say that I prefer to have a favorable view of the dolphins, in most situations, and I do have high hopes for them at all times. Do I temper my hopes with realism, usually, but at some point you've just got to decide to be a fan, and then be one.
 
hey Geaux, ever read something from a person who was obviously taking themselves too seriously? I know I have.

For the record, I care about our roster, I care about the games we play, and I am quite certain I evaluate other teams capabilities and talent level fairly often; so I really would take offense to being thrown into a category conjured from a "baseless and absurd" assertion. If, in fact, that is what you were doing.

I don't believe I have ever been quoted as saying we were "this close" I may be wrong, I'm not a military analyst; as we know military analysts are the only sect of persons who can be held without error. I will, however, say that I do gauge this team as a competitive one, against any current team in the league. We are missing key components and a base level talent. What we do have is a very strong mental game and a winning culture, which is a very big part of the game. For that reason alone I would say this team is far superior than the one that took the field in 2007.

I wouldn't say that I'm an eternal optimist, I would say that I prefer to have a favorable view of the dolphins, in most situations, and I do have high hopes for them at all times. Do I temper my hopes with realism, usually, but at some point you've just got to decide to be a fan, and then be one.

I never said being a military analyst makes me more credible than the next guy. I brought it up because someone said that I was in the county lock up. My point is that I cannot get "locked up" and keep my job. But now that you bring it up, maybe my training to look at facts and not "hopes" does separate me from some of the two bit loser opinions I see on this board. Never considered that before.

Its fine to have as high hopes as you want. The problem is when you start making "baseless assertions" as if those hopes warrant it. They do not. They never have. I doubt they will in the future. But thats just me.
 
losing is for losers - in 2007 we lost 15 times - this year we won 6 more games - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we're a better team than we were 2 years ago - which was the bottom line of his post - note how i didn't say you hang out at the bottom line

Which is my point. You guys get all excited when we win 6 games, because at one point we lost 15. Thats "success" to you people. Thats not success to me. There is no good or bad, right or wrong here. We just have different standards.
 
I never said being a military analyst makes me more credible than the next guy. I brought it up because someone said that I was in the county lock up. My point is that I cannot get "locked up" and keep my job. But now that you bring it up, maybe my training to look at facts and not "hopes" does separate me from some of the two bit loser opinions I see on this board. Never considered that before.

Its fine to have as high hopes as you want. The problem is when you start making "baseless assertions" as if those hopes warrant it. They do not. They never have. I doubt they will in the future. But thats just me.


But what baseless assertions have I made? If that comment wasn't directed at my quotes directly that's fine, it just seems that they were, as you quoted my material...
If they are, please explain...
 
alright...I'll be that guy. ;)

I don't see a huge difference between the talent I thought we had going into that year, and the talent we have going into next year.

QB - I'll take what we have now for sure, but we had a pretty good career QB in Trent Green for the now, and a 2nd round pick in Beck (again, this isn't using hindsight, just what we knew then) for the future.

RB - Now...but only for depth, it's all about Ronnie and he was there then.

WR - Then. CC and MB were ok, and Ginn wasn't considered a bust yet.

TE - Push. need improvement then and now.

OL - Now easily.....biggest difference between the two squads

DL - Then.

LB - Then.

DB - Now.

I never thought 1-15 in August of 2007.....and I don't recall anyone around here predicting it either, we were probably talking playoffs. :lol:
I respect your post but disagree a bit.

While both rosters to an extent are similar in the aspect of certain talent level the biggest difference between the both is our roster then was slowly being churned down into 70's version of the Bucs. While today's rosters is slowly on its way back up. While where we stand on that ladder back up can be debated, the trend is definitely up now not down.
While we have had some mistakes on the way(Wilson etc..) their is definitely better quality players coming in: Starks ,Davis,Smith, Langford, Thomas, Henne, Bess etc...

My original intent of my post is for people to chill out a bit (myself included) we are not a team spiraling down anymore, we are a team REBUILDING its way back up to something meaningful.

The 11-5 made people forget that rebuilding is a process and we are in good hands now. Life is not as bad as some make it seem around here so chill and enjoy the process.
Chubbs
 
I respect your post but disagree a bit.

While both rosters to an extent are similar in the aspect of certain talent level the biggest difference between the both is our roster then was slowly being churned down into 70's version of the Bucs. While today's rosters is slowly on its way back up. While where we stand on that ladder back up can be debated, the trend is definitely up now not down.
While we have had some mistakes on the way(Wilson etc..) their is definitely better quality players coming in: Starks ,Davis,Smith, Langford, Thomas, Henne, Bess etc...

My original intent of my post is for people to chill out a bit (myself included) we are not a team spiraling down anymore, we are a team REBUILDING its way back up to something meaningful.

The 11-5 made people forget that rebuilding is a process and we are in good hands now. Life is not as bad as some make it seem around here so chill and enjoy the process.
Chubbs

Love the Marco Rubio support.

Not so much your comment about us "rebuilding into something meaningful". I think this is a "baseless assertion" that I have been discussing with another poster.

How are we rebuilding into something meaningful? We are old on defense. Our best player are our oldest players or the most injury prone.

Who is our best WR? Exactly. We don't have one.

We have one outstanding OL in Jake Long (a parting gift from Cameron) and a bunch of older, injury prone, for the most part underachievers.

Here is the deal, as I see it.

RG was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
WR was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
We still don't have a game changing TE (the only game Fasano changed this year was the ATL game, and not in a good way).
Was Jason Ferguson really their long term answer at NT? Seriously? Because we are still using someone elses scraps (Soliai) when Ferguson predictably got hurt.
Chad Henne got alot of kudos from alot of people, but we still don't know if he is the man or not.
We spent a fortune on Gerbil Wilson who looks as if his name could as easily be Flip Wilson (google that, kids).
We paid some guy like 2 million dollars per catch....and yet I constantly here how this regime doesn't throw money around.

No team has ever finished 1-15 two years in a row. They have always "improved". The proof will be this year. Do we win our division and win a playoff game or not? If we do, I will say that I was wrong about these guys and they have rebuilt this team into something meaningful.

If we do not, I will stand by my assertions that these guys are in way over their heads, Tuna has lost interest, and Ross should go in a new direction.
 
Love the Marco Rubio support.

Not so much your comment about us "rebuilding into something meaningful". I think this is a "baseless assertion" that I have been discussing with another poster.

How are we rebuilding into something meaningful? We are old on defense. Our best player are our oldest players or the most injury prone.

Who is our best WR? Exactly. We don't have one.

We have one outstanding OL in Jake Long (a parting gift from Cameron) and a bunch of older, injury prone, for the most part underachievers.

Here is the deal, as I see it.

RG was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
WR was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
We still don't have a game changing TE (the only game Fasano changed this year was the ATL game, and not in a good way).
Was Jason Ferguson really their long term answer at NT? Seriously? Because we are still using someone elses scraps (Soliai) when Ferguson predictably got hurt.
Chad Henne got alot of kudos from alot of people, but we still don't know if he is the man or not.
We spent a fortune on Gerbil Wilson who looks as if his name could as easily be Flip Wilson (google that, kids).
We paid some guy like 2 million dollars per catch....and yet I constantly here how this regime doesn't throw money around.

No team has ever finished 1-15 two years in a row. They have always "improved". The proof will be this year. Do we win our division and win a playoff game or not? If we do, I will say that I was wrong about these guys and they have rebuilt this team into something meaningful.

If we do not, I will stand by my assertions that these guys are in way over their heads, Tuna has lost interest, and Ross should go in a new direction.

Bah man you acting like you expected the dolphins in 2 offseasons, 1 beginning with a pos roster that I posted earlier to be 100% improved and in contention.

Yes we still have some old f*cks on defense, but again they only had 2 offseasons only to improve on it.

What have they done so far?

1. Drastically improve or DL. We started with no true NT and ****ty DE's and now we have above average to very good DE's with an excellent rotation. We also brought in Fergy to instantly hold over the NT position while we addressed others. When healthy he has been spectacular. Once they draft or pick up a new NT to replace Fergy then this line is 100% improved. I expect this to happen this offseason.

2.Drastically improve our DB's. We went from having average DB's to having Two young studs in the corners and one of the best SS in the league in my opinion in Bell. Nate Jones also played very well as the Nickel compared to any other Nickel we have had around here in many years.They messed up big time in bringing in Wilson and letting go Hill. But this regime felt that Wilson was the better paycheck for some reason. They were wrong and have no doubt it will be addressed this offseason. Either Clemons comes on and becomes the man or they will address it via FA or the draft. Once they pick up a true FS then this unit will be 100% improved.

3. LB's are another story, yes we haven't had hardly any improvement in the LB position but again I attribute that to only having 2 offseasons, truly 1 with their own players and having to deal with the contracts of Joey Porter and Channing Crowder. What they have done is churned the bottom part of the roster in this position and bring in the likes of Wake who just might be the next big thing @wolb and brought in imo better backups then we had to begin with in Torbor, Ayodele etc... The problem is the talent level at LB is below average and Ayodele had to start. Channing is another story. I do not think Crowder is a bad ILB, I just think he needs a true #1 stud next to him to allow him to free roam a bit more. We brought Taylor back at the Cheap and made a move I still dont understand with the Roth release. Either way this will be the offseason that LB's are addressed from top to bottom. I expect to see 2 new ILB's and 2-3 new OLB's this offseason regardless.

Lets check the offense:

4. QB- We went from Cleo Lemon,Trent Green & Beck to Chad Henne, Chad Pennington, Tyler Thigpen and Pat White. IMO a 100% improvement. Will penny come back? Not sure but I expect it, I also expect Thigpen to be traded this offseason either way I beleive even if Henne was our Only QB on this roster its a 100% improvement over Trent Green,Clemons and Beck combined.

5.OL-Not even fair to compare the OL from now to then. Some of our backups imo are better then some of the starters we had back then.
When healthy they are a very nice group. Long,Smiley,Grove,Thomas, Carey is an above average line when healthy. Now the problem is we are relying on Smiley and Grove to be healthy. I expect them to draft 1 or 2 G/C OL in mid rounds this year.

6.WR- We havent had much improvement because we still do not have a true #1 WR, but that will come. the bottom portion of the depth chart is instantly better. Hartline & Bess are very good #2's and #3's and are good enough to be the #'s 2's and #'3s on many NFL teams.And we still do not know what we have in Turner, he could be the next coming or the next nothing we do not know. This will be either Ginns last season with the fins or will be moved this offseason either way I do not see him a fin beyond 2010 not enough balls to play in a Parcells/Sparano offense. The speed is their but thats about it. I honestly dont see us chasing big $$ on a true #1 this offseason I see us grabbing a temp player like Bryant or another big receiver that becomes FA this year and waiting till next years draft when all the stud WR's are comming out. Either way we are just 1 peice away from having a decent WR group. Unfortunately that peice happens to be the most important.

7.RB- Old then still old now. But when you step back and think about it wtf would you have done. RB and RW together are a lethal combination, they knew exactly that RW was getting up their in age and that RB's contract was up eventually but again having the ability of fielding RB and RW let them to not having to spend time or money to address the RB right now so they could focus on other areas. But its not like they just sat back and did nothing. The 2 backups to RB and RW are move then serviceable and I think Cobbs is one of the best 3rd down backs in the league and is all around amazing player. Sheets who we brought in after Cobbs went down is a very exciting player. So again they churned the bottom have of the Depth Chart for the time being.

8.TE's this position needs to be addressed. But to their credit everyone and their mothers was high on Fasano after his first year with us, And Joey Haynos was developing faster then expected. Noone expected the droubt at TE that we had this past season. I do see us addressing the TE in the draft. ANd Hopefully Fasano Will pick it back up. So ya here is one position that is not greatly improved but stepping back and looking at the overall picture we are much more improved now then we were then.

Chubbs
 
How are we rebuilding into something meaningful? We are old on defense. Our best player are our oldest players or the most injury prone.

Who is our best WR? Exactly. We don't have one.

We have one outstanding OL in Jake Long (a parting gift from Cameron) and a bunch of older, injury prone, for the most part underachievers.

Here is the deal, as I see it.

RG was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
WR was a problem when these guys got here, its still a problem.
We still don't have a game changing TE (the only game Fasano changed this year was the ATL game, and not in a good way).
Was Jason Ferguson really their long term answer at NT? Seriously? Because we are still using someone elses scraps (Soliai) when Ferguson predictably got hurt.
Chad Henne got alot of kudos from alot of people, but we still don't know if he is the man or not.
We spent a fortune on Gerbil Wilson who looks as if his name could as easily be Flip Wilson (google that, kids).
We paid some guy like 2 million dollars per catch....and yet I constantly here how this regime doesn't throw money around.

No team has ever finished 1-15 two years in a row. They have always "improved".

Our five best players were:

Jake Long (24)
Randy Starks (26)
Ronnie Brown (28)
Ricky Williams (32)
Jason Ferguson (35)

I expect two of the following to be in that list next year

Chad Henne (24)
Davone Bess (24)
Brian Hartline (23)
Vontae Davis (21)
Sean Smith (22)

As for your evaluation:

-- RG talent in 2007 did not meet minimum criteria, now it is approx. 30th starter.
-- WR receiver is younger with similiar talent (not regressing)
-- TE talent level was better (Martin's injury changed it) than 2007
-- NT is a big problem .. No argument there
-- Henne performed better than Trent Green despite having limited NFL experience.
-- Wilson and he who shall not be named were very disappointing.

2 Year Evaluation
-----------------
1. OL best it has been in the last 15 years
2. DL talent significantly improved with big hole at NT
3. QB looks very promising unlike 2007 (or were you a Beck supporter)
4. Player number 30-43 aggregate talent level significantly improved.
5. WR talent young, growing, and about the same as when they arrived.

2008 Draft and College Free Agents
-----------------------------------
Jake Long
Philip Merling
Chad Henne
Kendall Langford
Lex Hilliard
Davone Bess
Dan Carpenter

4 starters, 2 contributors, 1 depth, 2 probowlers

2008 Draft and College Free Agents
-----------------------------------
Sean Smith
Vontae Davis
Brian Hartline
Chris Clemons
Kory Sheets
Kory Sperry

3 starters, 1 contributor, 2 depth (more may emerge in 2nd year)

I just do not understand your position.
 
Our five best players were:

Jake Long (24)
Randy Starks (26)
Ronnie Brown (28)
Ricky Williams (32)
Jason Ferguson (35)

I expect two of the following to be in that list next year

Chad Henne (24)
Davone Bess (24)
Brian Hartline (23)
Vontae Davis (21)
Sean Smith (22)

As for your evaluation:

-- RG talent in 2007 did not meet minimum criteria, now it is approx. 30th starter.
-- WR receiver is younger with similiar talent (not regressing)
-- TE talent level was better (Martin's injury changed it) than 2007
-- NT is a big problem .. No argument there
-- Henne performed better than Trent Green despite having limited NFL experience.
-- Wilson and he who shall not be named were very disappointing.

2 Year Evaluation
-----------------
1. OL best it has been in the last 15 years
2. DL talent significantly improved with big hole at NT
3. QB looks very promising unlike 2007 (or were you a Beck supporter)
4. Player number 30-43 aggregate talent level significantly improved.
5. WR talent young, growing, and about the same as when they arrived.

2008 Draft and College Free Agents
-----------------------------------
Jake Long
Philip Merling
Chad Henne
Kendall Langford
Lex Hilliard
Davone Bess
Dan Carpenter

4 starters, 2 contributors, 1 depth, 2 probowlers

2008 Draft and College Free Agents
-----------------------------------
Sean Smith
Vontae Davis
Brian Hartline
Chris Clemons
Kory Sheets
Kory Sperry

3 starters, 1 contributor, 2 depth (more may emerge in 2nd year)

I just do not understand your position.

Your analysis is subjective. How has all this "starters, contributors, depth" or "best OL in 15 years" manifesting itself? See where I am going with this?

Maybe the OL was the best in your lifetime, maybe not. We did not win more games than any season in 15 years. We are not better on offense than anytime in the last 15 years.

To understand my position, understand my logic. It must manifest itself in victories and us getting better. So far, under these guys, in year 3, we don't appear like we are going to compete for the Conf Championship. Can we? Sure. Anything can happen. Do I predict it? No. We have alot of holes on this team that IMO, keep us from being among the NFL (or AFC even) elite. But if I am wrong, I will GLADLY admit it. Will you admit it if you are wrong?
 
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