Ogbah’s Injury and the Defense

[Kingdom Come]

Weak, just pathetically weak. Ndamukong Suh was there. He was perfect depth behind Seiler and Wilkins, and he was cheap and willing to sign with any legitimate playoff team. Yah, I know, he miserably failed us in the past at an exorbitant salary, but for what he is getting now with Philly, well.... could end up making the difference in the playoffs.

 

[Ray R]

Getting this upset about Ben Stille may be the strangest thing I've ever seen in my life. Grab a Snickers?

Or something more long term - like a pacifier - LOL
Yes, I was being kind - LOL

 

[Ray R]

R.J. McIntosh https://www.miamidolphins.com/news/miami-dolphins-sign-mcintosh-to-practice-squad

Well, at least it's something. Sure as hell a better answer than Scarlett. He will be hungry to get back into the NFL.

Who knows, maybe he could end up saving our asses in the playoffs in case of injuries.

All we can do at this point is scan whoever is available and get the ones that can improve our team. You can't pick a watermelon from an apple tree - if you get my drift. - LOL

 

[Ray R]

Depth matters. Presumptuousness precedes catastrophe, and is the bane of fools.

This post is right.

Too bad your previous posts weren't.
No, I won't explain the obvious to you.
None are so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Nugtron]

Obviously, losing Ogbah is a bad thing. But he didn’t really fit our defense anymore. Boyer is running almost exclusively a 4-2-5 this season, and Ogbah isn’t a great fit in that system because he doesn’t put enough pressure on the QB to be one of just two edge rushers (nor is he a great interior pass rusher).

Ogbah is much more suited to be a 3-4 DE, but we haven't been playing much 3-4 because we want to find ways to get Wilkins, Sieler, and Raekwon on the field and because Phillips and Ingram aren’t true OLBs—we don’t want them in coverage.

As a result, I think our front 7 looks fine—maybe even better—without Ogbah.

At DT, we can run a three-man rotation of Wilkins, Sieler, and Davis for two slots.

At edge, we can run a 4-man rotation of Chubb, Phillips, Ingram, and Van Ginkel for two slots.

And at LB, we can play a three-man rotation of Baker, Roberts, and Riley for two slots. Lately we’ve also been mixing in some Van Ginkel snaps on obvious passing downs where we go with only 1 true linebacker, which I love.

And then in the secondary, we play 5 guys virtually every snap. Howard, Kohou, and Holland are always three of them. Rowe gets most of the snaps as the 4th guy.

That 5th slot in the secondary is our biggest weakness (other than our crappy linebackers). Right now it’s getting divided up between McKinley, Bethel, Crossen, and Igbinoghene. Byron Jones would obviously be a much, much better option.

Ogbah's injury may have been a blessing in disguise. No, I'm not saying I'm happy he got hurt, but I'm sure it added some pull for grabbing Chubb.

Phillips needs to rush like every snap he gets, I don't understand why Boyer drops him into coverage so often. He consistently gets pressures and QB hits when rushing, and he isn't as bad as finishing as some people think. Pass rushing is very tiring in itself, dropping back into coverage just hurts his pass rushing burst IMO.

 

[Mach2]

I mean, it’s Josh Boyer’s choice to play those ILBs. We don’t have to play Roberts 60% of snaps, you know. He’s a much worse player than Ingram, Van Ginkel, and Riley, all of whom play less snaps than him.

We should be playing 5-1-5 alignment much more than 4-2-5. Our DL and edge talent is vastly superior to our ILB talent. It’s Boyer’s choice to keep trotting out two ILBs who largely stink.

Wow...... that take doesn't even get to the level of superficial.

First of all, you are conflating "edge" players with ILBs. Their roles/responsibilities within the scheme are not equivalent. While Roberts is not going to be on any Pro Bowl ballots, none of the guys you listed are as good as he at read/shed/meet back in hole on early downs between the Tackles.

It's fine to want better LB play, but the idea of putting AVG in Roberts' role is just silly talk.

 

[Mach2]

Ogbah's injury may have been a blessing in disguise. No, I'm not saying I'm happy he got hurt, but I'm sure it added some pull for grabbing Chubb.

Phillips needs to rush like every snap he gets, I don't understand why Boyer drops him into coverage so often. He consistently gets pressures and QB hits when rushing, and he isn't as bad as finishing as some people think. Pass rushing is very tiring in itself, dropping back into coverage just hurts his pass rushing burst IMO.

Because that is the requirement of that position within the framework of the overall scheme. One of the most advantageous things about this defensive philosophy is the obfuscation and confusion it causes for opponents. You can only do that if players, particularly Edges and Safeties, are very versatile. Philips has come a long way towards being a "complete" player this year. I have no big issue with the way JP is being used.

If you don't like the scheme itself, that is a different conversation.

 

[The Ghost]

the framework of the overall scheme.

Can't wait for that to change.

 

[Mach2]

Can't wait for that to change.

Meh, I don't have any big issues with the scheme. Any philosophy has strengths and weaknesses, and none will work if you don't have the horses, specifically pass rushers that win one v one matchups consistently.

 

[The Ghost]

Meh, I don't have any big issues with the scheme. Any philosophy has strengths and weaknesses, and none will work if you don't have the horses, specifically pass rushers that win one v one matchups consistently.

Which they are better suited to do in a 4-3. Like its painfully obvious those two guys will do a lot more in someone else's defense than JB's.

Neither player should ever be called a LB again after 2022 and Wilkins can go back to being a DT. And Jerome Baker, as much as I don't like him right now, is a 4-3 OLB.

I am pumped because I know its going to happen next year.

Mike McDaniel isn't afflicted with the Average Syndrome, a disease that affects a lot of Dolphins fans. No fan base is more afraid to lose "average" than a Dolphins fan.

I wonder what the Steelers would give us for Raekwon Davis? Cameron Hayward is getting up there.

 

[Marino2.0]

Wow...... that take doesn't even get to the level of superficial.

First of all, you are conflating "edge" players with ILBs. Their roles/responsibilities within the scheme are not equivalent. While Roberts is not going to be on any Pro Bowl ballots, none of the guys you listed are as good as he at read/shed/meet back in hole on early downs between the Tackles.

It's fine to want better LB play, but the idea of putting AVG in Roberts' role is just silly talk.

I’m not conflating anything. As I said in the very post you quoted, we should be playing more 5-1-5 and less 4-2-5. That means not putting AVG in Roberts’ role, but eliminating Roberts’ role entirely and playing an extra down lineman/edge.

I want better LB play, but we aren’t going to find better ILBs mid-season. So things being as they are, I want to shift our scheme to play more guys on the line of scrimmage and only one off-ball linebacker at a time. Which is what the Giants used to do on their Super Bowl teams, and what we did a lot more of last season.

 

[Marino2.0]

Ogbah's injury may have been a blessing in disguise. No, I'm not saying I'm happy he got hurt, but I'm sure it added some pull for grabbing Chubb.

Phillips needs to rush like every snap he gets, I don't understand why Boyer drops him into coverage so often. He consistently gets pressures and QB hits when rushing, and he isn't as bad as finishing as some people think. Pass rushing is very tiring in itself, dropping back into coverage just hurts his pass rushing burst IMO.

Totally agree.

 

[Marino2.0]

Because that is the requirement of that position within the framework of the overall scheme. One of the most advantageous things about this defensive philosophy is the obfuscation and confusion it causes for opponents. You can only do that if players, particularly Edges and Safeties, are very versatile. Philips has come a long way towards being a "complete" player this year. I have no big issue with the way JP is being used.

If you don't like the scheme itself, that is a different conversation.

I think that’s the issue. I don’t like the scheme. Or at least, I don’t think the scheme is ideal for our current personnel. This scheme would work much better if we had better ILBs and Byron Jones were healthy. But we don’t, and he’s not…

 

[Mach2]

I’m not conflating anything. As I said in the very post you quoted, we should be playing more 5-1-5 and less 4-2-5. That means not putting AVG in Roberts’ role, but eliminating Roberts’ role entirely and playing an extra down lineman/edge.

I want better LB play, but we aren’t going to find better ILBs mid-season. So things being as they are, I want to shift our scheme to play more guys on the line of scrimmage and only one off-ball linebacker at a time. Which is what the Giants used to do on their Super Bowl teams, and what we did a lot more of last season.

Even if that would mean gaping holes up the middle, which is exactly what would happen on early downs?

You do realize our run defense got gashed between the Tackles on a regular basis last season?

 

[Marino2.0]

Even if that would mean gaping holes up the middle, which is exactly what would happen on early downs?

You do realize our run defense got gashed between the Tackles on a regular basis last season?

Of course not. I want more of that alignment because I think it’d work.

Our run defense stunk last year for a lot of reasons. Mostly because our best pass rusher (Phillips) was awful at setting the edge, and Adam Butler was really bad against the run. Raekwon also played hurt most of the year and was really bad. This year, Phillips has been much better against the run and Raekwon has improved. Butler is gone. I don’t think we’d be nearly as vulnerable against the run.