Oh noes..not another Henne thread but serious though.... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Oh noes..not another Henne thread but serious though....

BGtoKNfor6

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We all know that this is the last year that Henne has to "prove" he is the future of Miami. There is also no doubt that Finheaven is divided. We have the group, myself included, that believe much of Henne's initial woes was the end result of coaching and F.O. issues. When he was allowed to sling the rock, he generally came through. However IMO, the coaching staff, Sparano included, pretty much flat our almost ruined the guys career before it started. Then we have the other group of fans who believe Henne is useless and doomed to be out of the league in a few years.

Now, Henne faces a huge test in 4 out of the 5 games starting the season. Even for seasoned NFL quarterbacks, there is a good chance that given the overall state of the team, that they would have a hard time leading their team to victories against the Pats, Houston, San Diego and the Jets especially with an o-line in complete disarray and a new offense. Don't get me wrong, many of the nay sayers will say this is just another excuse in the laundry list of excuses that the "believers" have come up with the past 3 years. However, the notion that a qb cannot be successful with a porous o-line cannot be discounted if indeed that is the case. "Get rid of the damn ball" will be the mantra for those that cannot see and understand this.

That being said, what will Henne have to show to many that have turned the page sort-of-speak or are about to as the result of strong play by him in the pre-season? Is it victories or just overall good play or both?

Personally, if Henne can show he can take care of the football and improve his short to intermediate reads and accuracy, something he has vastly improved upon in the pre-season, then I will be happy. I also want to see him continue to digest Daboll's offense and whether or not he "gets" it will be evident on his ability to make the line reads and change the plays accordingly. I do not really believe Henne is every going to be a solid deep ball thrower. If there is one thing you can't improve from a qb is his overall accuracy especially if he hasn't really improved in 3 years with the deep ball. Either you are an accurate qb from the jump or one that can throw the ball but need help from your wideouts. IMO, that is one thing that separates the greats from the rest and Rodgers and Brees proved that last night with their ability to make perfect ball placement, whether it be a backside shoulder throw when needed or a throw that splits defenders routinely.

So given Henne's pretty tough start to the season, what is it going to take? I just can see the "boo birds" railing the guy if we lose to the pats on Monday night and unless it is something glaring that Henne does wrong, just remember it's a team game ( I am pretty sure I am wasting my breath here)...In the end though if you are on the "henne sucks" bandwagon, you can take comfort in knowing that this will more than likely be his last year in Miami if he flounders.

Here is to hoping that we finally have found an OC and offensive scheme that better suits our young qb and he can turn the page and we can move forward for once..
 
This is a real good year for Dolphin fans. Either Henne is the answer, or more than likely we see some change and hopefully a guarantee that we do whatever possible to land a first round QB.
 
Elite quarterbacks can function with a porous offensive line... anyone that has paid attention to any significant amount of football in their lifetime, and hasn't grasped that concept yet, probably never will.

What seperates elite quarterbacks in this league apart from the rest is what they're able to do under pressure, and how they're able to function when protection breaks down. However, it's also what they're able to do when the protection is good. The elite quarterbacks in this league will out-execute the run-of-the-mill quarterbacks in this league every time given the protection is the same for both.... due to an enhanced sense of timing, surgical precision, ball placement, and processing information at a rapid pace. Although what makes them elite, is what they're capable of when the protection is bad. You can still tell good quarterbacks from bad one's even behind lousy offensive lines.

Some quarterbacks need a bomb shelter in front of them simply to look passable and appear that they even belong as a starting caliber quarterback in the NFL. You can put a dominant offensive line in front of them, or a horrible offensive line in front of them, and the bottom line is you'll still never win anything with them either way.


Five Jake Long's on the offensive line will not make an elite quarterback out of a guy who simply doesn't possess those qualities. An elite quarterback will become elite because of his own abilities, not because of the offensive line that's put in front of him.

My philosophy has been, and will always be to do whatever it takes to find a quarterback that I think possesses those elite qualities, followed by putting the best offensive line you can in front of him. If it ends up a dominant offensive line, well then that's great. But if it's average, that's fine too. You win and lose with quarterback and head coach in this league.

For example.... Jake Long is a good player... we know that. But If I have to trade him in order to land my franchise quarterback for the next decade, he'll be outta here so fast his head would spin. I'll find a left tackle I can win with.


I think Henne will be better under Daboll, mainly because it's extremely unlikely that he could be worse... but I still don't think it'll be good enough. He just doesn't have the qualities that I look for in an elite quarterback... no matter what kind of offensive line you put in front of him.

Furthermore, I won't be satisfied until the head coach and General Manager are also replaced. That's what I think it's going to take for Miami to get where we all want them to be. I know there's people that will disagree with that... but that's what I think.

I think Miami needs people in here that understand exactly how critical the quarterback position is.... and won't pass them up for offensive linemen and overdraft interior offensive lineman. Somebody that won't pass up Mark Ingram's so they can trade up for Daniel Thomas'... etc. Somebody that will upgrade the tight end position with an eye towards acquiring the type of athlete it takes to create mismatches, essentially the way you saw the Packers split out Jermichael Finley last night in the slot and play pitch-and-catch with him matched up one-on-one with a defensive back.

I just don't agree with their philosophy of building a football team... I don't agree with their blueprint for building a winner.... and that's just the way it is.


I agree that they almost ruined Chad Henne... but I don't think they almost ruined a franchise quarterback. I think what they did was take a mediocre quarterback, and almost run him completely out of the league. Six or one-half dozen of the other if you get right down to it....
 
I think Henne would be an excellent back up for any team, but he just does not have the playmaking ability to be a great Qb. His inaccuracy on the deep ball is not a small thing. Gates would have scored 2 or 3 more TDs if Henne could connect. If Henne shows he can consistently make the big play I will believe in him. Until then he is just a mediocre QB.
 
I have kept my mouth shut on this whole issue, but I think the answer is somewhere down the middle. Was it old offense coordinator/coaching/playcalling? Or is it that Henne sucks. To be honest, I really think its down the middle somewhere. I don't know or I should say I don't think Henne is an elite qb or even a starter looking at his body of work over the past two years.

With all the being said, new offense, more confidence and what he has shown in the presason ( against vanilla defenses, but so has all the other QBs) has me mildly optimistic to see what happens. I am not as good as most people in judging talent and routes and stuff, I just have my thoughts and opinions.

Im hoping for the best.
Go Fins

John
 
Elite quarterbacks can function with a porous offensive line... anyone that has paid attention to any significant amount of football in their lifetime, and hasn't grasped that concept yet, probably never will.

What seperates elite quarterbacks in this league apart from the rest is what they're able to do under pressure, and how they're able to function when protection breaks down. However, it's also what they're able to do when the protection is good. The elite quarterbacks in this league will out-execute the run-of-the-mill quarterbacks in this league every time given the protection is the same for both.... due to an enhanced sense of timing, surgical precision, ball placement, and processing information at a rapid pace. Although what makes them elite, is what they're capable of when the protection is bad. You can still tell good quarterbacks from bad one's even behind lousy offensive lines.

Some quarterbacks need a bomb shelter in front of them simply to look passable and appear that they even belong as a starting caliber quarterback in the NFL. You can put a dominant offensive line in front of them, or a horrible offensive line in front of them, and the bottom line is you'll still never win anything with them either way.


Five Jake Long's on the offensive line will not make an elite quarterback out of a guy who simply doesn't possess those qualities. An elite quarterback will become elite because of his own abilities, not because of the offensive line that's put in front of him.

My philosophy has been, and will always be to do whatever it takes to find a quarterback that I think possesses those elite qualities, followed by putting the best offensive line you can in front of him. If it ends up a dominant offensive line, well then that's great. But if it's average, that's fine too. You win and lose with quarterback and head coach in this league.

For example.... Jake Long is a good player... we know that. But If I have to trade him in order to land my franchise quarterback for the next decade, he'll be outta here so fast his head would spin. I'll find a left tackle I can win with.


I think Henne will be better under Daboll, mainly because it's extremely unlikely that he could be worse... but I still don't think it'll be good enough. He just doesn't have the qualities that I look for in an elite quarterback... no matter what kind of offensive line you put in front of him.

Furthermore, I won't be satisfied until the head coach and General Manager are also replaced. That's what I think it's going to take for Miami to get where we all want them to be. I know there's people that will disagree with that... but that's what I think.

I think Miami needs people in here that understand exactly how critical the quarterback position is.... and won't pass them up for offensive linemen and overdraft interior offensive lineman. Somebody that won't pass up Mark Ingram's so they can trade up for Daniel Thomas'... etc. Somebody that will upgrade the tight end position with an eye towards acquiring the type of athlete it takes to create mismatches, essentially the way you saw the Packers split out Jermichael Finley last night in the slot and play pitch-and-catch with him matched up one-on-one with a defensive back.

I just don't agree with their philosophy of building a football team... I don't agree with their blueprint for building a winner.... and that's just the way it is.


I agree that they almost ruined Chad Henne... but I don't think they almost ruined a franchise quarterback. I think what they did was take a mediocre quarterback, and almost run him completely out of the league. Six or one-half dozen of the other if you get right down to it....

Elite qb's can indeed function under pretty much all condition but IMO it is because of their understanding of their offense AND the opposing defense. They are able to make the line reads, decipher the chess match and react accordingly. However, if your o-line is unbelievably porous and you have 2-3 seconds to make a throw especially when the pressure is up the middle, you have little chance for success. IIRC, when Manning came into the league the colt's o-line wasn't all that hot and he was getting killed which probably contributed to him throwing 20+ picks his rookie year. I remember him getting his jaw broken in the dolphins game and zach thomas returning a pick for a td. I would have to do some research but I am wondering how many great to elite qb's actually functioned in porous o-lines for a few years before they were traded or their F.O. realized this and brought o-line talent in around them. I think that a good qb prospect who gets repeatedly sacked and beat up in his first few years would have a stunted growth curve versus the guy that actually gets protection. I guess Stafford will be the poster child of this argument off the top of my head.

I think something we all have to remember too is that the term "elite" is often thrown around as much as "hero". The chances of grabbing such a qb are slim to rare. I believe the coaches and systems are the catalyst for transitioning a player from good to great to elite. However, one cannot downplay the significance of the qb position in today's NFL but teams can win without an elite qb. However, the teams with the great to elite qb's are the ones that are going to be challenging for the Lombardi, year in and year out.

The bottom line in my book is that Henne has one last shot in the absence of pretty much all the things that "hindered" him in the past to prove that he can be a starting qb in the NFL. He will never be elite and probably never crack the top 10 in the league. What he can do though is make enough throws to keep the dolphins competitive. He just has to turn the corner up his game in consistent manner. Under Daboll it appears for the first time he may actually get a fair shake at it. No more excuses for a guy in year 4 of his career. At this point, nobody can deny that he looks like a different qb than years past. Of course that is pre-season work and means squat in terms of preserving his status as the starting qb in Miami.

I whole-heartedly agree about the state of our F.O. I am not a huge fan of our head coach. I believe that if Miami actually was able to draft Luck (won't be possible) that we don't have the coaching onboard to be able to help the guy transition to an elite qb anyway so unless we dump the entire F.O. and coaching staff, we are pretty much screwed anyway. If you look at the constant good teams in the NFL, the owners have some kind of football pedigree. They don't own to hire celebrities and build nightclubs for the purpose of increasing their overall bottom line. They believe in the quality of the product first and foremost over the rest. I don't see that in Ross and that is what hampered Mr. Blockbuster.
 
It's shaping up to be a nice thread.

3/2 td/int ratio, 60% completion. That'd do it for me.
 
Tom Brady sure did not look Elite when Detroit was running ripshot through his O-Line and handing him his @$$!
 
Dude. It was preseason.

I know this, but my disagreement was with slimm and this comment: "Elite quarterbacks can function with a porous offensive line... anyone that has paid attention to any significant amount of football in their lifetime, and hasn't grasped that concept yet, probably never will."

Tom Brady was not able to function with his porous O-line.
 
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