Opposite Reality...

claytonduper

Starter
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
583
Let me begin by stating it is a slow time of year. Winter outside, NBA and NHL both yet to start playoffs. Spring training is 1-2 weeks away, March Madness is still 4-6 weeks away and our government is in perpetual stalemate.

What if our new Head Coach and coaching staff actually look competent and do well? The players have pride and do not want to lose. What if our draft rebuilds the lines and they become competent. We run the ball and stop the run. Falk, or OS or whoever becomes a decent caretaker. We have Howard and Fitz in the backfield. Our special teams are good. We could win more than our owner/GM want.

We lose out on our QB in 2020. How can this be prevented?
 

Phindog

Starter
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
5,642
Reaction score
1,543
Location
New York
Let me begin by stating it is a slow time of year. Winter outside, NBA and NHL both yet to start playoffs. Spring training is 1-2 weeks away, March Madness is still 4-6 weeks away and our government is in perpetual stalemate.

What if our new Head Coach and coaching staff actually look competent and do well? The players have pride and do not want to lose. What if our draft rebuilds the lines and they become competent. We run the ball and stop the run. Falk, or OS or whoever becomes a decent caretaker. We have Howard and Fitz in the backfield. Our special teams are good. We could win more than our owner/GM want.

We lose out on our QB in 2020. How can this be prevented?
Let the Cards fall where they may. I'm hoping for your opposite reality.
 

circumstances

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
7,073
Reaction score
6,146
If sucking and picking a QB #1 overall was the only way to find an elite QB, we'd be screwed in that department!

Good thing it isn't.
 

Avigatorx

Ohana
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
6,511
Reaction score
3,896
Location
Ft. Myers
Let me begin by stating it is a slow time of year. Winter outside, NBA and NHL both yet to start playoffs. Spring training is 1-2 weeks away, March Madness is still 4-6 weeks away and our government is in perpetual stalemate.

What if our new Head Coach and coaching staff actually look competent and do well? The players have pride and do not want to lose. What if our draft rebuilds the lines and they become competent. We run the ball and stop the run. Falk, or OS or whoever becomes a decent caretaker. We have Howard and Fitz in the backfield. Our special teams are good. We could win more than our owner/GM want.

We lose out on our QB in 2020. How can this be prevented?
This is a big reason why I can see us trading down in the draft to acquire another 2020 first round pick. You are going to want some ammo to be able to make a move on a QB if we dont take one this year.

If Murray drops to 13, I think the whole tank plan goes out the window and drafting a QB in 2020 would be unlikely. That said, you may still want to roll picks into the 2021 draft in the event Murray doesnt pan out.

We arent going to get a clear picture of where the team is heading until the draft though.
 

MadDog 88

No Soup For You
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
17,733
Reaction score
2,979
Location
St Louis
Its going to be hard to win with a relatively young/inexperienced team.
 

Digital

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
9,128
Reaction score
8,209
I gotta admit, my mindset has changed. Before I wanted to build a good team and improve it to become great. I was hoping each coach was the answer man who could make that last step. But reality has set in for me. We were uniquely lucky to have had Don Shula. No other coach will become great like him, and I'm probably not going to see a dominant Dolphins team unless we take a step backwards before we take a step forward. Like how Jimmy Johnson rebooted the Dallas Cowboys, tanking and fire-sale'ing off his talent for a complete and utter tear down and build up. It worked like a charm, and Jimmy Johnson made a great team … a dynasty if you will.

In Miami he tried to patchwork things … and he couldn't do it. He tried to duplicate that dominant team built around one of the most dominant OL's of all time (Larry Allen, Erik Williams, Nate Newton, etc.) dominating run lanes for HoF'er Emmitt Smith. But those guys aren't as easy to find, and without those guys, the team just couldn't pull it off in Miami. Johnson was a good coach … but I had been used to Don Shula, who could take any team and make it look great. Almost no coaches can do that, and finding another one is probably not going to happen.

So, I'm looking to up our odds of building a Super Bowl contending team … and I'm embracing the Jimmy Johnson method of tanking and building a team from the wealth of resources that tanking brings a team . I will "trust the process" as the Philadelphia 76'ers love to say. So having another aberration success year like Sparano had doesn't interest me. And if we screw up tanking like Sparano did that one year, I'll go apoplectic. The QB's are there in the 2020 draft. Lots of teams will be tanking for the 2021 draft so the one lucky team can get Trevor Lawrence. Our window is to tank in 2019 to get an elite QB prospect for 2020. If we miss that window, we're probably looking at another decade of mediocrity … and I'm just not interested in that.

Tank. Get an elite QB prospect. Build around him. Build a team capable of competing for a Super Bowl. That's what I want, that's what I'm hoping we do, and at the moment according to Ross, Grier, etc., that is the plan. Now … go out and execute the plan fellas.
 

Awsi Dooger

Super Duper Club
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
9,420
Reaction score
2,868
Location
Las Vegas
The only way they're going to be able to tank is if they start Fales, Falk or Ruddock.
I agree with that. Those guys or the equivalent. A few times I have mentioned Malik Rosier as our starter. What would the league do about that...fine multiple first round picks including 2020? No chance. I think it would be entertaining as heck.

What happens during free agency? That's what I don't understand. Do we ignore it completely? I know we won't sign the high-priced most coveted guys. I always like the value guys, and taking two swings at them instead of scattergun signings everywhere. But if we are tanking do we go ahead and sign the value free agents and assume they won't be enough to thwart the tank? Or do we sign slugs to 1-year contracts while mostly suppressing laughter.

I would entertain myself by signing the slugs and then bringing the slugs to the draft to help out as we selected Malik Rosier. Make this a well-remembered tank with plentiful anecdotes.

Have tanks outside the stadium. Mini replicas to season ticket holders, if any. Griese, Moore and Stockton in appropriate attire during preseason.

I do not agree that this is a boring time of year from a sports perspective. Following golf and the winter sports really helps. Fascinating choke this weekend by Kim Kaufman after leading the LPGA event by wide margin at the midway point. Johannes Thingnes Boe is probably the most dominant athlete in the world right now, as Martin Fourcade struggles to figure out what happened. Track and field promoters have been trying to break that indoor world record in the mile for 15 years or more. It finally seemed available on Saturday during the Wanamaker Mile only for Yomif Kejelcha to fall one hundredth of a second short.
 

cafinfan408

Punching Bag
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
4,770
Reaction score
247
Location
San Jose
It doesnt matter if you tank to get the 3rd pick or you trade multi years to get the 3rd pick as long as you get your qb.. if nothing matters without one than trade everything until you get one. The Eagles didnt go 2-14 to get Wentz, plent sof teams saw the qb they wanted traded up and now are in the playoffs
 

meatpardle

Active Roster
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
598
Reaction score
602
Age
41
Location
UK
I don’t understand why we should purposely tank. I mean it’s not like it’s a successful strategy for building a dynasty. And if anybody from the front office or the coaching staff is ok with losing games on purpose I want them gone. Immediately.
Nobody ever suggested that the coaches will lose games on purpose, in fact it's a common misconception of 'tanking' that players and coaches ever want to lose games (of course they don't), and part of the reason why 'tanking' is not as common as a lot of people think it is. Front office....probably don't sit watching games hoping they lose or rooting for the opposition, but will be party to a plan not to go all out for immediate victory in order to make success more likely in the long term (stockpiling picks, ditching ****ty contracts, etc.). This would be justifiable as it's 'for the greater good'.

The concept of 'tanking' is very misunderstood and the term is used to mean a lot of things, but the important thing is that you don't have to lose for the process we're going through to work. It would make it easier, but this isn't about putting the ****tiest team possible out there just to go 0-16 and guarantee the #1 pick. No player of coach is going to buy into that, and no FO is going to risk causing such a massive schism between them and the players/coaches by trying to force that. If we ditch expensive contracts, trade for picks and still finish 6-10 and then 8-8 it doesn't mean the process has failed, just that we may have to trade a bit more to get to where we want to in the draft for a QB.

I believe that the model for what Stephen Ross wants to do is the Browns (of the last three years, not the ****show before that) - reduce the cap spend and stockpile picks to get to the position that they are in now, which compared to the constant cap struggles and patching up we've been doing looks pretty appealing.
 

Spiff

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
4,256
Reaction score
1,811
Location
Münchweiler, Germany
Front office....probably don't sit watching games hoping they lose or rooting for the opposition, but will be party to a plan not to go all out for immediate victory in order to make success more likely in the long term (stockpiling picks, ditching ****ty contracts, etc.). This would be justifiable as it's 'for the greater good'.
For me, it wouldn't be justifiable not to go all out to win immediately. Winning is a habit, unfortunately so is losing. That's what a hall-of-fame coach once said. And I agree.

The concept of 'tanking' is very misunderstood and the term is used to mean a lot of things, but the important thing is that you don't have to lose for the process we're going through to work. It would make it easier, but this isn't about putting the ****tiest team possible out there just to go 0-16 and guarantee the #1 pick.
I agree but I think the common understanding of tanking on this board is tanking = losing.

I believe that the model for what Stephen Ross wants to do is the Browns
If it means in terms of wins in the past three years, I hope this isn't what we are doing.
 

meatpardle

Active Roster
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
598
Reaction score
602
Age
41
Location
UK
For me, it wouldn't be justifiable not to go all out to win immediately. Winning is a habit, unfortunately so is losing. That's what a hall-of-fame coach once said. And I agree.
I think you should probably prepare to be disappointed, because from what Ross has said it sounds like we are getting ready to take one step back in order to take two forwards. Or however you want to dress it up. I guess those in power see it as justifiable, but it's certainly a risk if you can't turn it around in two or three years. The longer it goes on, the lower the standards drop, and the more failure is accepted.

I agree but I think the common understanding of tanking on this board is tanking = losing.
Yeah sure, and there is invariably always some element of losing, but it's more nuanced that just 'all the Colts did is play Curtis Painter at QB for a season so we should just put David Fales in'. The OP raised the question 'what if we win', I guess my point is that if we don't pull a stinker and don't get the #1 pick next year it doesn't mean the plan will have failed.

If it means in terms of wins in the past three years, I hope this isn't what we are doing.
I'm pretty sure one of Ross' quotes was something like 'I'd rather not go 3-13, but if that's what it takes...'.
 

Spiff

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
4,256
Reaction score
1,811
Location
Münchweiler, Germany
I think you should probably prepare to be disappointed, because from what Ross has said it sounds like we are getting ready to take one step back in order to take two forwards. Or however you want to dress it up. I guess those in power see it as justifiable, but it's certainly a risk if you can't turn it around in two or three years. The longer it goes on, the lower the standards drop, and the more failure is accepted.
The thing is, and I sincerely believe that, if Flores is a better coach than Gase then - regardless of the players we have - we will not be worse than last season. I believe the greatest deficiencies we had last year was that seemingly no player was aware what was expected of him and that not only caused confusion but also makes you play slower. A good coach can fix that in an instant. That's why I have high hopes it will be better this year than last.
 

Mach2

Starter
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
2,911
Reaction score
3,043
Age
55
Location
Boynton Bch, Fl
The thing is, and I sincerely believe that, if Flores is a better coach than Gase then - regardless of the players we have - we will not be worse than last season. I believe the greatest deficiencies we had last year was that seemingly no player was aware what was expected of him and that not only caused confusion but also makes you play slower. A good coach can fix that in an instant. That's why I have high hopes it will be better this year than last.
It is possible, and quite likely, that we are better, but have a worse record.
 
Top Bottom