Our "defense" isn't old!!!

[feelthepain]

Again you made my point. Your "players" are on the wrong side of thirty. It is bad when your younger players cannot perform close to the level of your aging stars. I will give you Crowder he is a stud and young as well. But with the exception of JT and ZT and Crowder you have no other play-makers. That is why people are saying you DEF is old is all.

If you look at SD yes they have aging vets as well, every team does. But the reason you do not hear they are getting old is because their young players step up and play (yes even if it takes roids)

Your DEF will continually get bashed in the Media, until some of your young players step up and perform to the level of JT and ZT. Big shoes to fill there and until someone plays like these two, the media will bash away

Please, none of the youth on your team could carry the jock strap of any of the vets on the fins, which is why we finished 4th overall on D and the Bills finished 18th overall and 27th against the run. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can play. JT and Zach were the two best players at their positions this year. They will be back next year and their isn't one player on the Bills D that even comes close to their talent, our youth in Crowder, Roth , Daniels, Bell and Allen I'll take over anything the Bills have. Miami has a mix of youth and experience, put our D in Indy and you'd have a SB winner, put Buffalos D in Indy and you'd have an Indy team that needs a D.

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

We will be in good cap shape once some contracts are gone. Its definately a likelihood that both those guys are tagged, but then I could see Clem getting the tag too. Depends on what those individuals want and try to force their teams into doing. In the end, if they are available, thats who we should target. If they are not, then we can look elsewhere. But atm all we have to talk about is theories and hypotheses.

We have some really young guys. Allen I hope can do better, and it seems Daniels had an ankle issue all year, so hopefully he can play better. Roth really stepped it up and Crowder has been solid as well, and Bell came in and did some good stuff. Its not like we have JT/ZT and nobody else. We arent in impeccible shape, but we arent a disaster atm either.
How about we worry about the other side of the ball. Our defense needs our O to get a lead every so often if we want to start winning.

Well one thing I can assure you is that Clements will not be tagged so either Bills sign him before FA or he hits the market

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

Please, none of the youth on your team could carry the jock strap of any of the vets on the fins, which is why we finished 4th overall on D and the Bills finished 18th overall and 27th against the run. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can play. JT and Zach were the two best players at their positions this year. They will be back next year and their isn't one player on the Bills D that even comes close to their talent, our youth in Crowder, Roth , Daniels, Bell and Allen I'll take over anything the Bills have. Miami has a mix of youth and experience, put our D in Indy and you'd have a SB winner, put Buffalos D in Indy and you'd have an Indy team that needs a D.

And this coming from a Team that these no talent Bills Swept and Shut Out. PLEASE!!!!

 

[phinphan896]

I'm sick and tired of people saying our defense is old.

DT Rod Wright 7/31/84 Rookie 22 years old
S Jason Allen 7/5/83 Rookie 23 years old
DT Fred Evans 11/6/83 Rookie 23 years old
LB Channing Crowder 12/2/83 2 year vet 23 years old
DT Kevin Vickerson 1/8/83 2 year vet 24 years old
CB Travis Daniels 9/8/82 2 year vet 24 years old
DE Matt Roth 10/14/82 2 year vet 24 years old
S Yeremiah Bell 3/3/78 3 year vet 28 years old
CB Will Allen 8/5/78 6 year vet 28 years old
CB Andre' Goodman 8/11/78 5 year vet 28 years old
S Renaldo Hill 11/12/78 6 year vet 28 years old
DE David Bowens 7/3/77 7 year vet 29 years old
S Travares Tillman 10/8/77 6 year vet 29 years old
LB Donnie Spragan 7/12/76 5 year vet 30 years old
DT Vonnie Holliday 12/11/75 9 year vet 31 years old
DE Jason Taylor 9/1/74 9 year vet 32 years old
DT Dan Wilkinson 3/13/73 13 year vet 33 years old
LB Zach Thomas 9/1/73 11 year vet 33 years old
DE Kevin Carter 9/21/73 12 year vet 33 years old
DT Jeff Zgonina 5/24/70 14 year vet 36 years old
DT Keith Traylor 9/3/69 16 year vet 37 years old

The average age is 28 years old. That's a fairly young defense. If you don't count Zgonina and Traylor (who most likely won't be on the roster next year) the average age is 27 years old. 27 years old?! That's when a player is in his prime.

When people say our defense is old, what they mean is Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor are old. The age of your biggest playmakers characterizes your whole defense. Carter, Traylor and Big Daddy are also three of our biggest playmakers, and three of the oldest guys on our defense.

You don't hear people calling San Diego's defense old because Shawne Merriman is young. Yet NT Jamal Williams (9 year vet), LB Donnie Edwards (11 year vet), and LB Randall Godfrey (11 year vet) are all old.

Jason Taylor and Kevin Carter are old. But Matt Roth is young. We need another DE to compliment Roth for years to come. But we don't need to draft one this year. We can draft a DE in 2008.

Kevin Vickerson, Fred Evans, and Rod Wright are also young. At least one of them should be able to take over for Holliday or Traylor if and when one of them should go. There's definitely some YOUTH at the DT position.

Big Daddy will most likely take over Traylor's starting duties next year. He's four years younger than Traylor. We should be all right for another year.

Down the road, we'll need a younger DT to compliment Evans, Wright and (maybe) Vickerson. We might be able to pick up a quality DT thru free agency. (We had a lot of success with Traylor and Big Daddy.)

Zach Thomas is really old (for a linebacker). But Crowder is really young. Spragan and Pope provide a little depth. We need to draft a LB this year for sure.

The average age of our secondary is 26 years old. If we replace Goodman or Will Allen with a rookie, the average becomes 25 years old.

See what I mean? When you really break it down, our defense isn't really old. ZT and JT are over 30, but Crowder, Daniels, Jason Allen, Roth, Evans, Wright, and Vickerson are all younger than 25.

Bottom line: The media won't stop calling our defense old until ZT and JT are no longer on our roster. And that will be a sad day indeed.

in case you didnt notice, zach thomas and jason taylor are basically our defense. without them our defense is horrible. jason taylor is the reason that the other defensive linemen were able to get so many sacks. he commands a double team which allows for every one else to be accounted for by one man. similar to strahan and dwight freeney. zach thomas is just plain special.

 

[AZStryker]

Again you made my point. Your "players" are on the wrong side of thirty. It is bad when your younger players cannot perform close to the level of your aging stars. I will give you Crowder he is a stud and young as well. But with the exception of JT and ZT and Crowder you have no other play-makers. That is why people are saying you DEF is old is all.

If you look at SD yes they have aging vets as well, every team does. But the reason you do not hear they are getting old is because their young players step up and play (yes even if it takes roids)

Your DEF will continually get bashed in the Media, until some of your young players step up and perform to the level of JT and ZT. Big shoes to fill there and until someone plays like these two, the media will bash away

You know, if anyone would know about media bashing it's a Bills fan. Next to the Cubs is there another professional team tied to more punchlines???

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

Please, none of the youth on your team could carry the jock strap of any of the vets on the fins, which is why we finished 4th overall on D and the Bills finished 18th overall and 27th against the run. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can play. JT and Zach were the two best players at their positions this year. They will be back next year and their isn't one player on the Bills D that even comes close to their talent, our youth in Crowder, Roth , Daniels, Bell and Allen I'll take over anything the Bills have. Miami has a mix of youth and experience, put our D in Indy and you'd have a SB winner, put Buffalos D in Indy and you'd have an Indy team that needs a D.

OOO and a second thing is your team's youth is so talented, answer me this: WHY could the not rotate in to keep your DEF fresh in 4th QTR.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

I'm sick and tired of people saying our defense is old.

DT Rod Wright 7/31/84 Rookie 22 years old
S Jason Allen 7/5/83 Rookie 23 years old
DT Fred Evans 11/6/83 Rookie 23 years old
LB Channing Crowder 12/2/83 2 year vet 23 years old
DT Kevin Vickerson 1/8/83 2 year vet 24 years old
CB Travis Daniels 9/8/82 2 year vet 24 years old
DE Matt Roth 10/14/82 2 year vet 24 years old
S Yeremiah Bell 3/3/78 3 year vet 28 years old
CB Will Allen 8/5/78 6 year vet 28 years old
CB Andre' Goodman 8/11/78 5 year vet 28 years old
S Renaldo Hill 11/12/78 6 year vet 28 years old
DE David Bowens 7/3/77 7 year vet 29 years old
S Travares Tillman 10/8/77 6 year vet 29 years old
LB Donnie Spragan 7/12/76 5 year vet 30 years old
DT Vonnie Holliday 12/11/75 9 year vet 31 years old
DE Jason Taylor 9/1/74 9 year vet 32 years old
DT Dan Wilkinson 3/13/73 13 year vet 33 years old
LB Zach Thomas 9/1/73 11 year vet 33 years old
DE Kevin Carter 9/21/73 12 year vet 33 years old
DT Jeff Zgonina 5/24/70 14 year vet 36 years old
DT Keith Traylor 9/3/69 16 year vet 37 years old

The average age is 28 years old. That's a fairly young defense. If you don't count Zgonina and Traylor (who most likely won't be on the roster next year) the average age is 27 years old. 27 years old?! That's when a player is in his prime.

When people say our defense is old, what they mean is Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor are old. The age of your biggest playmakers characterizes your whole defense. Carter, Traylor and Big Daddy are also three of our biggest playmakers, and three of the oldest guys on our defense.

You don't hear people calling San Diego's defense old because Shawne Merriman is young. Yet NT Jamal Williams (9 year vet), LB Donnie Edwards (11 year vet), and LB Randall Godfrey (11 year vet) are all old.

Jason Taylor and Kevin Carter are old. But Matt Roth is young. We need another DE to compliment Roth for years to come. But we don't need to draft one this year. We can draft a DE in 2008.

Kevin Vickerson, Fred Evans, and Rod Wright are also young. At least one of them should be able to take over for Holliday or Traylor if and when one of them should go. There's definitely some YOUTH at the DT position.

Big Daddy will most likely take over Traylor's starting duties next year. He's four years younger than Traylor. We should be all right for another year.

Down the road, we'll need a younger DT to compliment Evans, Wright and (maybe) Vickerson. We might be able to pick up a quality DT thru free agency. (We had a lot of success with Traylor and Big Daddy.)

Zach Thomas is really old (for a linebacker). But Crowder is really young. Spragan and Pope provide a little depth. We need to draft a LB this year for sure.

The average age of our secondary is 26 years old. If we replace Goodman or Will Allen with a rookie, the average becomes 25 years old.

See what I mean? When you really break it down, our defense isn't really old. ZT and JT are over 30, but Crowder, Daniels, Jason Allen, Roth, Evans, Wright, and Vickerson are all younger than 25.

Bottom line: The media won't stop calling our defense old until ZT and JT are no longer on our roster. And that will be a sad day indeed.

You are wrong. Just look at your list. 4 out of the first 5 have either never played or else played insignifcantly.

The rest of the players might not be old, but they aren't very good either. JT is a superstar. ZT is living off yesterday's accomplishments. Other than those two, there isn't a Pro Bowler among them.

On our Dline, the guys who have signifcantly contributed, are all over 30. In the NFL, thats considered old.

The problem with the young guys is they haven't shown they are any good. Doesn't mean they aren't, I just can't put any stock in them making us a playoff team.

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

I did not want to get defensive, but I was not attacking your team nor JT and ZT. All I was saying was why you get the tag for being old. So then my team gets attacked. Guess as a Bills fan I do not know football

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

I'm glad someone else brought this up, because not only are we younger than people think, but at least 5 of the guys that are over 30 will be gone this spring, which opens the door to bringing in younger players.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

I'm glad someone else brought this up. Because if you take Zgonina and Traylor out of the mix, which will likely be the case next year, our average age will drop considerably.

We don't hear anything about the Patriots defense being old, yet Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Harrison, Chad Scott and Colvin are all in late 20's or early to mid 30's.

I could care less how old Taylor and Thomas are. Zach is the same age as Ray Lewis and we don't have to hear about him breaking down. Taylor obviously isn't feeling the effects.

As has been said before. Age is only a number.

Take out Traylor and our avg age does drop considerably. But unless we find a suitable replacement, the opponents avg ypc might go up considerably.

You see, therein lies the problem. If you take the whole roster, we might not be so old. But if you take the contributors...we are much older. That cannot be overlooked.

You young Fins fans need to start looking at this team with an objective eye. Its the same ones of you who wouldnt face the truth about Saban being a failure are now into denying our problems. Thats all fine and good if thats how you want to be, but its going to continue to cause you to lose credibility on these boards.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

So you're saying the Def. POY and another player who made the All-pro team are near the "end" of their careers?

I wish every player on our team then was near the end of his career then because those guys are outperforming players 10 years younger than them.

I'm saying that. I don't think Zach or JT have more than 2 years with us. I'd call that near the end of their careers.

 

[Section126]

No, But what is bad when you have your 1st round pick not be able to crack the starting lineup. When your secondary has the exact same numbers as most teams number one corner. That is what i am talking about. UNTIL one of your younger players can perform at a decent Level you will continue to have the "OLD" tag to that DEF

What was the Dolphins defensive ranking with that putrid secondary?

Do you see my point now?

We are gonna try to improve our #3 ranked defense.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

Again you made my point. Your "players" are on the wrong side of thirty. It is bad when your younger players cannot perform close to the level of your aging stars. I will give you Crowder he is a stud and young as well. But with the exception of JT and ZT and Crowder you have no other play-makers. That is why people are saying you DEF is old is all.

If you look at SD yes they have aging vets as well, every team does. But the reason you do not hear they are getting old is because their young players step up and play (yes even if it takes roids)

Your DEF will continually get bashed in the Media, until some of your young players step up and perform to the level of JT and ZT. Big shoes to fill there and until someone plays like these two, the media will bash away

And they get bashed because everytime its been up to them to come up with a big stop, they fold like cheap tents. The offense tied up the Jets game and the defense gave up a big play to Leona Washington. They needed a stop against Indy and couldn't stop Joe Addai.

If defenses were heavyweight fighters, ours would go down in history like Kenny Norton. Lost every big fight he ever fought, won every meaningless fight he ever fought. Nothing special.

 

[Section126]

You are wrong. Just look at your list. 4 out of the first 5 have either never played or else played insignifcantly.

The rest of the players might not be old, but they aren't very good either. JT is a superstar. ZT is living off yesterday's accomplishments. Other than those two, there isn't a Pro Bowler among them.

On our Dline, the guys who have signifcantly contributed, are all over 30. In the NFL, thats considered old.

The problem with the young guys is they haven't shown they are any good. Doesn't mean they aren't, I just can't put any stock in them making us a playoff team.

ZT is living off yesterday's accomplishments? So he DIDN'T LEAD the League in Tackles? he didn't make All-Pro? He didn't make the NFL-Alumni All-Pro team?

if you think ZT is living off of yesterday's accomplishments...then anything you posted has little or no credibility.

 

[AZStryker]

I did not want to get defensive, but I was not attacking your team nor JT and ZT. All I was saying was why you get the tag for being old. So then my team gets attacked. Guess as a Bills fan I do not know football

No you're not being attacked, but as a Bills fan, why are you here? The site is called FINHEAVEN-a site dedicated to the MIAMI DOLPHINS

Also, you can take Tampafinsfan with you to your boards. He'd fit right in because all he does is bash the Dolphins.