Need help here folks....can someone shed some light on what has happened to our defense? It started late last year with our sudden inability to stop the run and it has continued to date. I think most of us thought our dline would be one of the best in the league...yet we are being owned almost weekly. Why? What happened to suddenly have our defense nosedive? We tossed Coyle. Whats really going on that's causing this? 250+ yards against the Bills? This isn't bad..it is a catastrophic failure and IMHO the single biggest reason we are where we are right now. Would love to hear from folks who know how to and have looked at tape and can give their assessment because Im at a loss right now as to whats the REAL issue...
Our defense....whats going on?
- Thread starter Dbergan
- Start date
Couple weeks ago, we evidently thought it prudent to leave guys like Gronk, Lewis, Edelman, uncovered. 3 scores later...
Last week, we thought it just as prudent to not maintain assignment discipline when Buffalo carried the ball. 3 scores later...
Philly has 3 good running backs...seems like a trend in the works.
Seriously though, the defense has been parred down to the point of reliable predictability...this trend was started by the previous HC in the off-season when he directed the then-DC to reduce it down (ended up being like down to 10 formations/calls), and is being continued by our newly designated (and under-qualified/experienced) DC. Add that to the fact that we have glaring weaknesses in 2 secondary spots, 1 LB spot (arguably more), and a couple DL spots being shakey...with Grimes falling down more than Hartline...and there you have it.
gofins60
Club Member
On another forum someone asked who's to blame for Miami's 31st ranking against the run. This was my reply.
Who's to blame for Miami's lousy run defense?
That's easy... Philbin and Coyle (with help from Ireland, Hickey, and possibly Tannenbaum). Philbin inherited a Top 5 rushing defense when he was hired. Joe hired Coyle, and they changed schemes. After one season, that change of scheme caused the rushing defense to drop in the rankings. For season 2, Ireland swapped LBs bringing in Ellerbee and Wheeler and the rushing defense dropped again. Ellerbee and Wheeler are now gone (but definitely not missed). Those two were downgrades from the previous LBs (Burnett and Dansby), and their replacements are even worse than they were. Tony McDaniel left the team. I don't know who made the decision, but they kept Starks and Soliai left. It seems like a lot of the players who were good against the run were replaced by Philbin with guys who they thought would fit Coyle's scheme. As Philbin and the Front Office replaced players, the guys they brought in were less talented than what they had. Add less talent with the fact that Coyle's scheme was vastly inferior to Nolan's defense, and you get what we see today... garbage!
That's just what Philbin and Friends did to the rushing defense. Let's not forget how several average or better DBs left the team and were replaced by... nobody. That's right, a bunch of nobodies. The draft picks aren't very good, and the free agents brought in are just as bad. How about what Philbin (and others) did to the o-line? Philbin took over a line that needed a RT right away, and an eventual replacement for the oft-injured Long at LT. Like Coyle, Philbin changed schemes on the offense and got rid of the guys who "didn't fit". Going into his 4th season, Philbin is starting guys like Dallas Thomas and Jamil Douglas when he had Jerry and Incognito at Guard. Jerry was doing okay with the Giants (although I think he's hurt now), and Cogs is playing at a Pro Bowl level for Buffalo. Philbin couldn't control Cogs so he got rid of him. (Yes, Richie was a drunken immature idiot, but all he needed was a babysitter to keep him out of serious trouble. Long probably kept him in line, but I believe he left before Bullygate.) Vernon Carey was a 1st round RT for Sparano, but Tony moved him to RG to make for for Colombo... which didn't work out so well. Shortly after Philbin took over Carey retired; I guess that he wasn't in Philbin's plans for the "perfect" offense. The first O-lineman drafted during Philbin's tenure? Jonathan Martin. The replacement for the oft-injured, big contract Long is the oft-injured, big contract Albert. Philbin and Friends did away with the FB position and got rid of a good blocking TE in Fasano because a strong running game was not a part of Philbin's offensive plan. IMO, the only improvements on this team since Philbin took over are Cameron as a receiving TE and a pretty good WR corps. And, if the next Defensive Coordinator is smarter than Coyle, then I can add Suh to the list of improvements even though he's overpaid IMO.
The point I'm trying to make here is that if Philbin (and his Coordinators) had been smart and/or flexible enough to adapt their schemes to take advantage of their players' strengths they would not have had to replace as many people. All they needed to do was to upgrade a few positions (RT, QB, WR) and get a seam-threat TE and maybe some help in the secondary and they would've been competitive almost immediately. Instead, they came in with a fixed plan and tried to force the players to fit the scheme. Good players left because Philbin didn't want them, and they were replaced by mostly inferior players (who were still a poor fit for what Philbin wanted to do). Philbin was in way over his head and had no business being a Head Coach at any level. I'm sure that Philbin believed he could build the perfect team if given the chance; the problem is that his blueprint for the perfect team was constructed in fantasyland, and he had no idea how to evaluate talent or implement his plan in the real world. I must admit that Philbin was a hard worker... it must have taken a lot of effort to turn a Top 5 rushing defense into the 31st ranked rushing defense!
Who's to blame for Miami's lousy run defense?
That's easy... Philbin and Coyle (with help from Ireland, Hickey, and possibly Tannenbaum). Philbin inherited a Top 5 rushing defense when he was hired. Joe hired Coyle, and they changed schemes. After one season, that change of scheme caused the rushing defense to drop in the rankings. For season 2, Ireland swapped LBs bringing in Ellerbee and Wheeler and the rushing defense dropped again. Ellerbee and Wheeler are now gone (but definitely not missed). Those two were downgrades from the previous LBs (Burnett and Dansby), and their replacements are even worse than they were. Tony McDaniel left the team. I don't know who made the decision, but they kept Starks and Soliai left. It seems like a lot of the players who were good against the run were replaced by Philbin with guys who they thought would fit Coyle's scheme. As Philbin and the Front Office replaced players, the guys they brought in were less talented than what they had. Add less talent with the fact that Coyle's scheme was vastly inferior to Nolan's defense, and you get what we see today... garbage!
That's just what Philbin and Friends did to the rushing defense. Let's not forget how several average or better DBs left the team and were replaced by... nobody. That's right, a bunch of nobodies. The draft picks aren't very good, and the free agents brought in are just as bad. How about what Philbin (and others) did to the o-line? Philbin took over a line that needed a RT right away, and an eventual replacement for the oft-injured Long at LT. Like Coyle, Philbin changed schemes on the offense and got rid of the guys who "didn't fit". Going into his 4th season, Philbin is starting guys like Dallas Thomas and Jamil Douglas when he had Jerry and Incognito at Guard. Jerry was doing okay with the Giants (although I think he's hurt now), and Cogs is playing at a Pro Bowl level for Buffalo. Philbin couldn't control Cogs so he got rid of him. (Yes, Richie was a drunken immature idiot, but all he needed was a babysitter to keep him out of serious trouble. Long probably kept him in line, but I believe he left before Bullygate.) Vernon Carey was a 1st round RT for Sparano, but Tony moved him to RG to make for for Colombo... which didn't work out so well. Shortly after Philbin took over Carey retired; I guess that he wasn't in Philbin's plans for the "perfect" offense. The first O-lineman drafted during Philbin's tenure? Jonathan Martin. The replacement for the oft-injured, big contract Long is the oft-injured, big contract Albert. Philbin and Friends did away with the FB position and got rid of a good blocking TE in Fasano because a strong running game was not a part of Philbin's offensive plan. IMO, the only improvements on this team since Philbin took over are Cameron as a receiving TE and a pretty good WR corps. And, if the next Defensive Coordinator is smarter than Coyle, then I can add Suh to the list of improvements even though he's overpaid IMO.
The point I'm trying to make here is that if Philbin (and his Coordinators) had been smart and/or flexible enough to adapt their schemes to take advantage of their players' strengths they would not have had to replace as many people. All they needed to do was to upgrade a few positions (RT, QB, WR) and get a seam-threat TE and maybe some help in the secondary and they would've been competitive almost immediately. Instead, they came in with a fixed plan and tried to force the players to fit the scheme. Good players left because Philbin didn't want them, and they were replaced by mostly inferior players (who were still a poor fit for what Philbin wanted to do). Philbin was in way over his head and had no business being a Head Coach at any level. I'm sure that Philbin believed he could build the perfect team if given the chance; the problem is that his blueprint for the perfect team was constructed in fantasyland, and he had no idea how to evaluate talent or implement his plan in the real world. I must admit that Philbin was a hard worker... it must have taken a lot of effort to turn a Top 5 rushing defense into the 31st ranked rushing defense!
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Miami has three LBs that would struggle for playing time on any real team. Worst LB corpse in the league -- can't stop the run, can't cover the pass.
MIami has one CB that is legit -- and he is falling off a cliff at the tail end of his career, looking like a grade-school kid against college all world players, with Watkins just toying with him on Sunday. This is the same Grimes that can man up any of Miami's WRs and pretty much shut them down, btw. (Which speaks volumes about the fact that Miami is once again starting possession WRs when the rest of the league has playmakers.) The rest of the CBs -- Jamar Taylor? Really? Worst starting boundary CB on the Phins since forever. The rest -- almost as bad as Taylor.
Miami has one safety that is legit: R. Jones. After that? Crap shoot. Aikens? hahahahaha!
On the DL, Miami has one star that can shut down run or pass, and the rest of the DL is either a work in progress (Phillips), trash-heap players trying to make a name without great talent (Shelby, Fede), or overrated and terrible against the run (OV and Mitchell).
There are simply too many weaknesses on D to cover up the holes. And the worst issue is the lack of starting quality LBs at all three positions. Great LBs cover up a lot of team weaknesses. If you have one or two decent DL, great LBs and safeties, that team can cover up other weaknesses. Tough up the middle is tough overall, in this league.
Miami ain't tough up the middle. Suh is it. And Jones. That's it. The rest really sad.
That's the problem in a nutshell. Philbin looked at all these sad players and saw playmakers better than the ones he sent packing. Nope.
Now Miami is left with a second or third or fourth string talent level for other teams, starting... enjoy the show, folks.
LD
MIami has one CB that is legit -- and he is falling off a cliff at the tail end of his career, looking like a grade-school kid against college all world players, with Watkins just toying with him on Sunday. This is the same Grimes that can man up any of Miami's WRs and pretty much shut them down, btw. (Which speaks volumes about the fact that Miami is once again starting possession WRs when the rest of the league has playmakers.) The rest of the CBs -- Jamar Taylor? Really? Worst starting boundary CB on the Phins since forever. The rest -- almost as bad as Taylor.
Miami has one safety that is legit: R. Jones. After that? Crap shoot. Aikens? hahahahaha!
On the DL, Miami has one star that can shut down run or pass, and the rest of the DL is either a work in progress (Phillips), trash-heap players trying to make a name without great talent (Shelby, Fede), or overrated and terrible against the run (OV and Mitchell).
There are simply too many weaknesses on D to cover up the holes. And the worst issue is the lack of starting quality LBs at all three positions. Great LBs cover up a lot of team weaknesses. If you have one or two decent DL, great LBs and safeties, that team can cover up other weaknesses. Tough up the middle is tough overall, in this league.
Miami ain't tough up the middle. Suh is it. And Jones. That's it. The rest really sad.
That's the problem in a nutshell. Philbin looked at all these sad players and saw playmakers better than the ones he sent packing. Nope.
Now Miami is left with a second or third or fourth string talent level for other teams, starting... enjoy the show, folks.
LD
fisi
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in a nutshell, 4 good players to compensate 7 bad ones will never work. You want Suh, wake, Grimes and Rashad Jones to carry the other bums. any good or average qb will have a great day against that defense.
i
Daryl Gardener in 1996. Drafted Zach Thomas in the 5th, same year. That was a hell of a defensive draft. Problem with this organization is that they can't draft talented players that contribute to making this team better anymore. Deion Jordan is example of the recent ineptitude that has brought this organization to the laughing stock it is! Can't build a winner with over priced free agents.
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
I think an honest assessment of our defense is we have average to below average players.
SUH was ranked the second best defensive player in the NFL, after JJ Watt, by many people, but I am just not sure he is the game changer everyone says he is. When he gets double teamed he gets taken out of the game. We also just lost Wake. We have very little at Linebacker. Our D-Backs are up-and-down, especially Grimes.
It seems many really overrated our defense in the off-season. We still cannot shut down other team's running game, or passing. I would spend most of next year's draft and free agency improving the defense, after we get a better LT and. RT.
SUH was ranked the second best defensive player in the NFL, after JJ Watt, by many people, but I am just not sure he is the game changer everyone says he is. When he gets double teamed he gets taken out of the game. We also just lost Wake. We have very little at Linebacker. Our D-Backs are up-and-down, especially Grimes.
It seems many really overrated our defense in the off-season. We still cannot shut down other team's running game, or passing. I would spend most of next year's draft and free agency improving the defense, after we get a better LT and. RT.
But why did we suddenly tank towards the end of last season against the run? That's whats making me scratch my head. Did we suddenly change scheme or did our competition see something and suddenly exploit it? And why has this continued now....even with the Suh addition?
whizafriz
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excellent recap of the Philbin regime gofins60, haha.
Basically yeah, we tried to keep replacing what we had with new players, thinking they would alleviate the passing coverage weaknesses down the middle that we always seemed to have, even with Nolan.
Instead, we got immensely worse against the run, and still sucked anyways against the pass.
Our pass rush that we were so prideful of completely dissappeared now because our LBs and CBs are even further incompetent against...everything. The DLine is slowly starting to make plays again out of sheer tenacity led by Suh, but the DEs are doing jack squat once Wake went out.
This team is WAY past the point of resembling a good defense anytime soon, good scheme or not.
Suh, Reshad Jones, Grimes, Phillips, Jenkins, and maybe Shelby and Mitchell are the only guys I would say worth their salt at all (and even then, guys like Grimes have terrible games still). Jury is still out on Bobby McCain and Lippett, but the rest is pretty much bench-tier on any other team.
Basically yeah, we tried to keep replacing what we had with new players, thinking they would alleviate the passing coverage weaknesses down the middle that we always seemed to have, even with Nolan.
Instead, we got immensely worse against the run, and still sucked anyways against the pass.
Our pass rush that we were so prideful of completely dissappeared now because our LBs and CBs are even further incompetent against...everything. The DLine is slowly starting to make plays again out of sheer tenacity led by Suh, but the DEs are doing jack squat once Wake went out.
This team is WAY past the point of resembling a good defense anytime soon, good scheme or not.
Suh, Reshad Jones, Grimes, Phillips, Jenkins, and maybe Shelby and Mitchell are the only guys I would say worth their salt at all (and even then, guys like Grimes have terrible games still). Jury is still out on Bobby McCain and Lippett, but the rest is pretty much bench-tier on any other team.
EFWilson
Active Roster
The Dolphins have DE's that can't set the edge against the run and almost nothing at LB to cover TE's or take on a OL and shed blocks. Very poor front office talent evaluations, and a coaching staff that doesn't bring anything to the table. A lot needs changing.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
In a nutshell our team coachin and Gm decided that LB's are not necessary in this defense and figured that Suh by himself would make us an elite defense
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
For most part cannot argue with much of what you said, spot on
Phinatic8u
Club Member
Next offseason needs to be defense dominated.
The offense is closer to competent than the D is close to bad.
The offense is closer to competent than the D is close to bad.