Over-investment Argument

[sports24/7]

There is a need for three wide receivers though.
And there is a need for depth at RB, which is what Gordon would be.
QB does seem, to me, to be a bit more of a luxury pick.

I actually think there is a greater need for a franchise QBthan a WR IMO. There is always a need for a franchise QB if you don't have one. As I see it Feeley is not a franchise QB, and Smith and Rogers are. If Saban sees it the same he has to go QB. If he sees Feeley as a potential franchise QB or doesnt see Smith or Rogers as a franchise QB then it is a different story. But we have two good starting WR's and a very capable 3rd IMO. We can find a decent 4th later in the draft or even rely on Gilmore who showed some flashes last year. We definitely do need a RB, but a good RB can be found later in the draft. But it has to come down to Saban's assessment of Feeley, Smith, and Rogers.

 

[inFINSible]

I actually think there is a greater need for a franchise QBthan a WR IMO. There is always a need for a franchise QB if you don't have one. As I see it Feeley is not a franchise QB, and Smith and Rogers are. If Saban sees it the same he has to go QB. If he sees Feeley as a potential franchise QB or doesnt see Smith or Rogers as a franchise QB then it is a different story. But we have two good starting WR's and a very capable 3rd IMO. We can find a decent 4th later in the draft or even rely on Gilmore who showed some flashes last year. We definitely do need a RB, but a good RB can be found later in the draft. But it has to come down to Saban's assessment of Feeley, Smith, and Rogers.

Our personal opinions of Feeley differ, and our opinions of the QBs available in the draft differ but, I agree that it all comes down to Saban's assessment of the position.

The only thing I would add is that, yes, we can find a good RB later in the draft but, we can get a franchise RB with the second pick.

 

[sports24/7]

The only thing I would add is that, yes, we can find a good RB later in the draft but, we can get a franchise RB with the second pick.

True, but I would rather a franchise QB and a good back, than a good QB and a franchise back. But again it comes down to Saban's view of whether these guys are franchise QBs or not. I trust that he will make the right decision. If he feels these guys arent worth the pick then I will be fine with someone else.

 

[Dudeman]

Our personal opinions of Feeley differ, and our opinions of the QBs available in the draft differ but, I agree that it all comes down to Saban's assessment of the position.

The only thing I would add is that, yes, we can find a good RB later in the draft but, we can get a franchise RB with the second pick.

but look at it based on what Saban said he's going to do: Draft the guy with the biggest "long-term" value to the franchise.

The average career of a RB is about 4-6 years, whereas a QB can play till his mid 30s (sometimes even longer) and still potentially be at a high level.

Ronnie Brown for example is turning 24 this December. Alex will be 21 in May, and Aaron will be 22 in December.

So, in 6 years, Brown will be 30, whereas Alex and Aaron will only be 27 and 28 respectively.

Its no secret that RBs usually start to decline at 30, because of all the hitting they take, whereas QBs last much longer. Curtis Martin is like the lone exception, and he would've probably not done nearly as well if he didn't have LaMont spot him from time to time.

I understand that you want a RB, but wouldn't you potentially like to have stability at the position for a potentially 15 years? I think that is "long-term" value

 

[inFINSible]

True, but I would rather a franchise QB and a good back, than a good QB and a franchise back. But again it comes down to Saban's view of whether these guys are franchise QBs or not. I trust that he will make the right decision. If he feels these guys arent worth the pick then I will be fine with someone else.

:yes: ..... vice versa

 

[Fin D]

Erase the past and learn from it.

All this talk about a QB, and no one is mentioning McPhearson for the No. 2. Why? What constitutes the best player available? ON FIELD skills! Not a single QB can match him, not to mention he's already played successful professional ball. He gambled, so what. He's matured and is in all likelihood over that now. 100% sure? Of course not, but I'm more sure he could be a dominant on-field playmaker than either of the other two QBs. How can taking him not maximize your value for a pick? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Mel Kiper and the rest of the media decide what's a value pick. Think about it, they're rarely right. There have been more impact players in the NFL from rounds 3 and below, then above. There's an unfortunate dynasty going on right now that's full of "low-value" picks. Knowing what you know now, where would you draft a Tom Brady?

 

[inFINSible]

but look at it based on what Saban said he's going to do: Draft the guy with the biggest "long-term" value to the franchise.

The average career of a RB is about 4-6 years, whereas a QB can play till his mid 30s (sometimes even longer) and still potentially be at a high level.

Ronnie Brown for example is turning 24 this December. Alex will be 21 in May, and Aaron will be 22 in December.

So, in 6 years, Brown will be 30, whereas Alex and Aaron will only be 27 and 28 respectively.

Its no secret that RBs usually start to decline at 30, because of all the hitting they take, whereas QBs last much longer. Curtis Martin is like the lone exception, and he would've probably not done nearly as well if he didn't have LaMont spot him from time to time.

I understand that you want a RB, but wouldn't you potentially like to have stability at the position for a potentially 15 years? I think that is "long-term" value

That's a great point but, what exactly is long term value? Is it as literal as you make it out to be or could there be other factors like cap value, now and in the future?

How valuable is it to have a second round draft pick sitting on the bench for two years?

If one of these guys do turn out to be a great QB, you'd want to lock him up for a lifetime, how much is that going to cost? Is there a line where a QBs salary negates his value, no matter how good he is? Is Indy stuck floundering because they don't have the cap space to keep Peyton Manning AND build a good defense?

Would a franchise RB, signed to a 6 year contract and starting from day one, represent excellent value from that pick?

I don't know the answers but, the questions are legit.

 

[BlueFin]

Erase the past and learn from it.

All this talk about a QB, and no one is mentioning McPhearson for the No. 2. Why? What constitutes the best player available? ON FIELD skills! Not a single QB can match him, not to mention he's already played successful professional ball. He gambled, so what. He's matured and is in all likelihood over that now. 100% sure? Of course not, but I'm more sure he could be a dominant on-field playmaker than either of the other two QBs. How can taking him not maximize your value for a pick? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Mel Kiper and the rest of the media decide what's a value pick. Think about it, they're rarely right. There have been more impact players in the NFL from rounds 3 and below, then above. There's an unfortunate dynasty going on right now that's full of "low-value" picks. Knowing what you know now, where would you draft a Tom Brady?

First of all, you don't select a QB based soley on physical skills, what is between his ears is the most important essential part that makes up a great QB.

McPherson is a nice gamble later in the draft, but c'mon dude, he barely played college ball and he played arena ball for a year.

One has to seriously question the intelligence of a player that steals a check at a time when he is the starting quarterback at FSU and has such a bright potential future.

You would have a short career in the NFL as a GM picking a player like McPherson at #2.

 

[sports24/7]

Erase the past and learn from it.

All this talk about a QB, and no one is mentioning McPhearson for the No. 2. Why? What constitutes the best player available? ON FIELD skills! Not a single QB can match him, not to mention he's already played successful professional ball. He gambled, so what. He's matured and is in all likelihood over that now. 100% sure? Of course not, but I'm more sure he could be a dominant on-field playmaker than either of the other two QBs. How can taking him not maximize your value for a pick? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Mel Kiper and the rest of the media decide what's a value pick. Think about it, they're rarely right. There have been more impact players in the NFL from rounds 3 and below, then above. There's an unfortunate dynasty going on right now that's full of "low-value" picks. Knowing what you know now, where would you draft a Tom Brady?

If we don't take a QB in the first I would love to get McPherson. It might be a bit of a reach in the second though. He is not the BPA at that point because of the risk involved. His potential is unlimited, but he only has about 4 games of college experience, and has character issues. I would love to see him in a Dolphins uni though.

 

[Fin D]

First of all, you don't select a QB based soley on physical skills, what is between his ears is the most important essential part that makes up a great QB.

McPherson is a nice gamble later in the draft, but c'mon dude, he barely played college ball and he played arena ball for a year.

One has to seriously question the intelligence of a player that steals a check at a time when he is the starting quarterback at FSU and has such a bright potential future.

You would have a short career in the NFL as a GM picking a player like McPherson at #2.

You're right there is no other successful player in the NFL who made a bad decsion in college or at the pro level. From LT to Vick, there is a long list of players we'd all want on the team. As far as, playing college ball, who cares Ryan Leaf, Danny Kannell, Chris Simms all played a lot of college ball, and all were drafted, where are they?

He made a bad descion so what? He's made pretty good on-field decsions. That takes using what's between your ears.

 

[Fin D]

If we don't take a QB in the first I would love to get McPherson. It might be a bit of a reach in the second though. He is not the BPA at that point because of the risk involved. His potential is unlimited, but he only has about 4 games of college experience, and has character issues. I would love to see him in a Dolphins uni though.

True, but every player is a risk! Why not take the guy who plays the best ball. This isn't a Cecil Collins issue, no one got hurt. This isn't even a Ricky issue, because its not about the guy's heart. It was a stupid mistake, that's all. If it wasn't for that stupid mistake, he'd be the #1 pick on everyone's mock. It isn't as risky as taking any of the other top 5 players who have as much potential to bomb in the league as McPhearson does to screw up again.

 

[BlueFin]

You're right there is no other successful player in the NFL who made a bad decsion in college or at the pro level. From LT to Vick, there is a long list of players we'd all want on the team. As far as, playing college ball, who cares Ryan Leaf, Danny Kannell, Chris Simms all played a lot of college ball, and all were drafted, where are they?

He made a bad descion so what? He's made pretty good on-field decsions. That takes using what's between your ears.

There is a world of difference between Arena Ball and the National Football league.

And for every player with character questions you name that worked out I can can give you three that didn't.

 

[Fin D]

There is a world of difference between Arena Ball and the National Football league.

And for every player with character questions you name that worked out I can can give you three that didn't.

As much difference between college and pros, maybe? How many players without character questions didn't work out even with skill? The majority of all NFL players "don't work out". There are only a hand full of players throughout NFL history who were great. Can you honestly tell me that Smith or Rodgers have a better chance at becoming something special than McPhearson?

 

[sports24/7]

True, but every player is a risk! Why not take the guy who plays the best ball. This isn't a Cecil Collins issue, no one got hurt. This isn't even a Ricky issue, because its not about the guy's heart. It was a stupid mistake, that's all. If it wasn't for that stupid mistake, he'd be the #1 pick on everyone's mock. It isn't as risky as taking any of the other top 5 players who have as much potential to bomb in the league as McPhearson does to screw up again.

You can't say for sure he would be the #1 pick. He hasn't proven himself at a high level like the others have. There are plenty of people with talent like McPherson that don't make the transition. Akili Smith comes to mind- a guy who had to physical skills but didnt have the mental makeup to be a great QB. We don't know if McPherson does. It is a whole lot more risky to take McPherson that Smith or Rogers.

 

[DPlus47]

That's a great point but, what exactly is long term value? Is it as literal as you make it out to be or could there be other factors like cap value, now and in the future?

How valuable is it to have a second round draft pick sitting on the bench for two years?

If one of these guys do turn out to be a great QB, you'd want to lock him up for a lifetime, how much is that going to cost? Is there a line where a QBs salary negates his value, no matter how good he is? Is Indy stuck floundering because they don't have the cap space to keep Peyton Manning AND build a good defense?

Would a franchise RB, signed to a 6 year contract and starting from day one, represent excellent value from that pick?

I don't know the answers but, the questions are legit.

thought that needed repeating...