(Part I) Post Defending Ireland / (Part II) Post Criticizing Ireland (Objective Take) | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

(Part I) Post Defending Ireland / (Part II) Post Criticizing Ireland (Objective Take)

LacesOutTanne34

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Part I: Why Ireland did a good enough job this year.
1. What would our record be with Dustin Keller? Charles Clay has been decent, but Keller is the TE we needed who could make big plays in the MIDDLE of the field. We desperately need(ed) a TE to split the field which would also spread the D out to help our WR's. He could have been huge for Tannehill.

2. What would our record be with Brandon Gibson healthy? The Tampa game and especially last game we needed to convert third downs in the third and it didn't happen. Gibson was an excellent wr for Tanne on 3rd down and he and Gibson were really in a groove when he got injured.

3. He made a great signing in Brent Grimes: He has been the best corner we have had in a long time.

4. I know many of you dislike him but I still like the Wallace signing: He wasn't brought here for just this year, he is still young and he and Tanne will play together for awhile and as chemistry/experience build we will see many more games like last week. Yes. he's expensive but the cheaper alternative was greg jennings who is older and less talented.

ARGUMENT: We have had the lead or been tied in the 4th quarter in 4 of our games and it is entirely possible that with Keller, Gibson and mistakes ON THE FIELD (ie fumbles, drops etc) this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5. Ok so those players get hurt, it can still be argued that this whole scandal could have cost us a win or two. With a 2nd year Qb/coach that record would show excellent progress and one could still argue we have shown good progress. Our losses have been so demoralizing that it is easy to miss the big picture, and that is that this team progressed this year and could be pretty damn could next year if the right holes are mended. With a 2nd year qb did you truly expect us to be an elite team and is it really his fault that we aren't over .500?

Part II: Why Ireland should be on hot seat.
1. What is a big thing this current team is missing? Oh that's right ANY PRODUCTION from last year's draft class! With our offseason acquisitions we could easily have a better record if our draft class was strong....I still like the Dion Jordan pick because I believe he can at LEAST be an above average pass rusher next year, BUT where is Davis? Taylor? and if Gillislee is truly not better than Daniel Thomas then he should just quit football now.

2. He seriously undervalued Reggie Bush because he overvalued lamar miller. I still think Miller could be a productive back behind a good o-line, but there is little question that Reggie would have made this team much better. He might not have put up the number he is in Det, but he would have made the run game better, while also making the passing game better just by the threat of him running.

3. Poor job of building o-line: This is self-explanatory. I can see logic in why he didn't resign Long, but I would have gladly contributed Phillip Wheeler's money to ensure at least a solid LT rather than gambling with Martin and Clabo. One could question the pass of an OT at the 3rd pick. But aside from the pick there was much better OL on f.a than Tyson Clabo.

4. Sturgis: 20/26 Carpenter: 22/24. Look I think Sturgis is good, but was saving 2m dollars worth a 5th round pick with no guarantee he would be better. (not huge point, but a point)

ARGUMENT: The biggest argument against him that he chose to gamble on Lamar Miller/Thomas and our O-line. And both have been AWFUL. He went on the assumption that we would at least be ok at each position or even slightly below average, in reality these decisions have clearly cost us wins. Just like the above argument, it can easily be argued that this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5 if these positions were even decent. We new last off season would be huge because of the money we had but also our excess of draft picks. And those draft picks have been AWFUL. I don't mind Jordan, because his skill set is rare, special and important for a defense, but he has struck out in getting CB's so I don't have to puke watching Nolan Carroll play or even a high potential lineman. It was a huge mistake to give Wheeler and to a lesser extent Ellerbe thinking their impact would be significant enough to gamble on the o-line while letting Reggie walk. And these decisions have cost us dearly.

What do you think?
 
We suffered injuries this year, but so has just about every team every year. I'm not a big fan of the excuses some people make for our team's failure (injuries, bad refs, not enough fans, etc.). The bottom line is that we're looking like we're going to finish somewhere around 7-9 yet again. That's five years in a row that we're finishing at that mark or below. Five years should be enough time to improve a team but for a variety of reasons, we haven't, and just about all those reasons point back to Ireland. Whether it was bad decisions or bad luck, the Ireland era has been a failure. I can't think of any good reason to continue that failure.
 
I agree with your logic, but lets be honest: Parcells drafted Chad Henne, so he pretty much became GM with Chad Henne as the franchise qb. He has also made some very good signing and draft picks in that time, but yes also some very bad ones.
 
Most other teams didn't want to take a chance on Keller or Grimes because if injuries. That's why they were only 1 year deals to begin with. Bess, who could move the chains on 3rd down was let go for Gibson. Wallace is a 1 trick pony who doesn't fight for the ball and is good for a couple if drops a game. Wheeler can't tackle. You lost a defense leader when Dansby was shown the door. What leaders are on the team now? The OL was completely ignored. I will give props to Ireland for managing to find someone who is worse than Colombo. That must have taking some real effort on his part. What is it, like four games with under 20 yards of rushing. I can't even remember the last time they scored a 4th quarter touchdown. The only time you hear Ireland's name in the news is when his character is being questioned.

Who's this mysterious franchise player that Ireland found without the influence of Tuna where he can say " yeah I got this pick right"?
 
Part I: Why Ireland did a good enough job this year.
1. What would our record be with Dustin Keller? Charles Clay has been decent, but Keller is the TE we needed who could make big plays in the MIDDLE of the field. We desperately need(ed) a TE to split the field which would also spread the D out to help our WR's. He could have been huge for Tannehill.

2. What would our record be with Brandon Gibson healthy? The Tampa game and especially last game we needed to convert third downs in the third and it didn't happen. Gibson was an excellent wr for Tanne on 3rd down and he and Gibson were really in a groove when he got injured.

3. He made a great signing in Brent Grimes: He has been the best corner we have had in a long time.

4. I know many of you dislike him but I still like the Wallace signing: He wasn't brought here for just this year, he is still young and he and Tanne will play together for awhile and as chemistry/experience build we will see many more games like last week. Yes. he's expensive but the cheaper alternative was greg jennings who is older and less talented.

ARGUMENT: We have had the lead or been tied in the 4th quarter in 4 of our games and it is entirely possible that with Keller, Gibson and mistakes ON THE FIELD (ie fumbles, drops etc) this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5. Ok so those players get hurt, it can still be argued that this whole scandal could have cost us a win or two. With a 2nd year Qb/coach that record would show excellent progress and one could still argue we have shown good progress. Our losses have been so demoralizing that it is easy to miss the big picture, and that is that this team progressed this year and could be pretty damn could next year if the right holes are mended. With a 2nd year qb did you truly expect us to be an elite team and is it really his fault that we aren't over .500?

Part II: Why Ireland should be on hot seat.
1. What is a big thing this current team is missing? Oh that's right ANY PRODUCTION from last year's draft class! With our offseason acquisitions we could easily have a better record if our draft class was strong....I still like the Dion Jordan pick because I believe he can at LEAST be an above average pass rusher next year, BUT where is Davis? Taylor? and if Gillislee is truly not better than Daniel Thomas then he should just quit football now.

2. He seriously undervalued Reggie Bush because he overvalued lamar miller. I still think Miller could be a productive back behind a good o-line, but there is little question that Reggie would have made this team much better. He might not have put up the number he is in Det, but he would have made the run game better, while also making the passing game better just by the threat of him running.

3. Poor job of building o-line: This is self-explanatory. I can see logic in why he didn't resign Long, but I would have gladly contributed Phillip Wheeler's money to ensure at least a solid LT rather than gambling with Martin and Clabo. One could question the pass of an OT at the 3rd pick. But aside from the pick there was much better OL on f.a than Tyson Clabo.

4. Sturgis: 20/26 Carpenter: 22/24. Look I think Sturgis is good, but was saving 2m dollars worth a 5th round pick with no guarantee he would be better. (not huge point, but a point)

ARGUMENT: The biggest argument against him that he chose to gamble on Lamar Miller/Thomas and our O-line. And both have been AWFUL. He went on the assumption that we would at least be ok at each position or even slightly below average, in reality these decisions have clearly cost us wins. Just like the above argument, it can easily be argued that this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5 if these positions were even decent. We new last off season would be huge because of the money we had but also our excess of draft picks. And those draft picks have been AWFUL. I don't mind Jordan, because his skill set is rare, special and important for a defense, but he has struck out in getting CB's so I don't have to puke watching Nolan Carroll play or even a high potential lineman. It was a huge mistake to give Wheeler and to a lesser extent Ellerbe thinking their impact would be significant enough to gamble on the o-line while letting Reggie walk. And these decisions have cost us dearly.

What do you think?

That is the fairest and most objective analysis of Ireland's performance I've read on the site. I think Ireland needs to go at the end of the year, but you did an excellent job with this. Kudos!
 
The biggest thing for me on this is he has had some good signings, he's had some bad signings. I just wonder if we had different chefs, coordinators, would we even be talking like this. This team has talent. Lots of it. Enough to win in my eyes. There are lots of teams with suspect olines. We can't run worth a damn and its taking tannehill to get us even close. I don't care if we ever have a 1000 yard rusher again but we need to be able to get some ayrds in the 4th quarter when we want to run the clock. Really this has killed us in more than one game. I think Ireland is going to be gone but the new GM is going to be playing with Philbin.
 
We suffered injuries this year, but so has just about every team every year. I'm not a big fan of the excuses some people make for our team's failure (injuries, bad refs, not enough fans, etc.). The bottom line is that we're looking like we're going to finish somewhere around 7-9 yet again. That's five years in a row that we're finishing at that mark or below. Five years should be enough time to improve a team but for a variety of reasons, we haven't, and just about all those reasons point back to Ireland. Whether it was bad decisions or bad luck, the Ireland era has been a failure. I can't think of any good reason to continue that failure.

So Atlant should be above 500 hundred regardless that they miss...all of their offensive weapons for most of the season
 
Part I: Why Ireland did a good enough job this year.
1. What would our record be with Dustin Keller? Charles Clay has been decent, but Keller is the TE we needed who could make big plays in the MIDDLE of the field. We desperately need(ed) a TE to split the field which would also spread the D out to help our WR's. He could have been huge for Tannehill.

2. What would our record be with Brandon Gibson healthy? The Tampa game and especially last game we needed to convert third downs in the third and it didn't happen. Gibson was an excellent wr for Tanne on 3rd down and he and Gibson were really in a groove when he got injured.

3. He made a great signing in Brent Grimes: He has been the best corner we have had in a long time.

4. I know many of you dislike him but I still like the Wallace signing: He wasn't brought here for just this year, he is still young and he and Tanne will play together for awhile and as chemistry/experience build we will see many more games like last week. Yes. he's expensive but the cheaper alternative was greg jennings who is older and less talented.

ARGUMENT: We have had the lead or been tied in the 4th quarter in 4 of our games and it is entirely possible that with Keller, Gibson and mistakes ON THE FIELD (ie fumbles, drops etc) this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5. Ok so those players get hurt, it can still be argued that this whole scandal could have cost us a win or two. With a 2nd year Qb/coach that record would show excellent progress and one could still argue we have shown good progress. Our losses have been so demoralizing that it is easy to miss the big picture, and that is that this team progressed this year and could be pretty damn could next year if the right holes are mended. With a 2nd year qb did you truly expect us to be an elite team and is it really his fault that we aren't over .500?

Part II: Why Ireland should be on hot seat.
1. What is a big thing this current team is missing? Oh that's right ANY PRODUCTION from last year's draft class! With our offseason acquisitions we could easily have a better record if our draft class was strong....I still like the Dion Jordan pick because I believe he can at LEAST be an above average pass rusher next year, BUT where is Davis? Taylor? and if Gillislee is truly not better than Daniel Thomas then he should just quit football now.

2. He seriously undervalued Reggie Bush because he overvalued lamar miller. I still think Miller could be a productive back behind a good o-line, but there is little question that Reggie would have made this team much better. He might not have put up the number he is in Det, but he would have made the run game better, while also making the passing game better just by the threat of him running.

3. Poor job of building o-line: This is self-explanatory. I can see logic in why he didn't resign Long, but I would have gladly contributed Phillip Wheeler's money to ensure at least a solid LT rather than gambling with Martin and Clabo. One could question the pass of an OT at the 3rd pick. But aside from the pick there was much better OL on f.a than Tyson Clabo.

4. Sturgis: 20/26 Carpenter: 22/24. Look I think Sturgis is good, but was saving 2m dollars worth a 5th round pick with no guarantee he would be better. (not huge point, but a point)

ARGUMENT: The biggest argument against him that he chose to gamble on Lamar Miller/Thomas and our O-line. And both have been AWFUL. He went on the assumption that we would at least be ok at each position or even slightly below average, in reality these decisions have clearly cost us wins. Just like the above argument, it can easily be argued that this team could be 7-4 or at very least 6-5 if these positions were even decent. We new last off season would be huge because of the money we had but also our excess of draft picks. And those draft picks have been AWFUL. I don't mind Jordan, because his skill set is rare, special and important for a defense, but he has struck out in getting CB's so I don't have to puke watching Nolan Carroll play or even a high potential lineman. It was a huge mistake to give Wheeler and to a lesser extent Ellerbe thinking their impact would be significant enough to gamble on the o-line while letting Reggie walk. And these decisions have cost us dearly.

What do you think?

I want to focus on the points in bold, you have very well thought out points I love the thread

But lets focus on part II 2

Reggie is being used differently than he was here, so It can be very well said that Reggie might have the same problems in Miami, I'm sure someone already mentioned this

Part II 3

what Ireland did to the O Line is the exact same thing he did with the offensive skills spot last year he stayed with "3rds and 4th strings with potential in hopes that they could reclaim and blossom. He is not at fault...ok he is somewhat at fault for the Martin Fiasco, losing INcogito in the process. At this point we acknowledge that Martin was less than serviceable so he really doesn't count but we Lost Cogs who was bringing McKinnie along fine. However the gamble with the Oline does not pay off and if anybody has been reading my posts I have been waving the flag reminding all that the draft is stacked early O-Linemen and we can spend money in the offseason to upgrade the position with having decent cap space available again.
 
I agree with you....if possible you SHOULD never gamble with the o-line; however, i disagree with you in that I don't blame Ireland for the Martin Mess. And thank you for your comments about the thread
 
So Atlant should be above 500 hundred regardless that they miss...all of their offensive weapons for most of the season

The 5 years before this one, Atlanta has finished 13-3, 10-6, 13-3, 9-7, 11-5. Did they have zero injuries during that stretch? Did they have zero calls go against them during those 5 years?
 
He shouldnt be judged on this past offseason alone. He should be judged by the entirety of his stay.

Its pretty easy to fill up the team with talented players when you have $50 million cap space. How about when your back is against the cap wall because your previous moves busted(2012)? How about when your lacking draft picks because of trades youve made(2011)?

Ive done similar threads in the past, so i wont go into everything Ireland has done and not done while here, but i will post 1 argument for why he should be fired. Heres a list of our second round picks since Ireland was hired as general manager:

Phillip Merling
Chad Henne
Pat White
Sean Smith
Koa Misi
Daniel Thomas
Jamar Taylor

Those picks were suppose to be the foundation of this franchise. Im not going to blame Ireland for Taylor, nor am i going to blame him for the lack of immediate production from this last draft class. I am going to blame for him forcing us to rely on the immediate production of rookies. Its becoming a yearly ritual, throwing first year players to the wolves to play critical positions. Why? Because we have nothing else behind them. And thats the problem.

When you miss on draft picks the repercussions arent felt for years, but they are coming nonetheless. Cam Cameron isnt the only reason why we went 1-15 in 2007. We planted the seeds of that season in the 2000-2004 offseasons.
 
to me it says he's not what we need for a GM. like you wrote "he's a gambler", and great GM's rarely gamble, they painstakingly work to "know" about picks, FA's, coaches, trainers, scouts... the whole 9. sure there's a little gambler in there, but it's a 10th of the sum. we need someone more Trent Baalke/Ryan Grigson/John Schneider... what we have ain't them.
 
when you have $50 million cap space

The reason he had 50m is because the people he drafted sucked and weren't worth retaining, then outside of Grimes he basically pissed that entire 50m away.
 
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