PFF: Re-Rank Top QBs from 2020 NFL Draft Class | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

PFF: Re-Rank Top QBs from 2020 NFL Draft Class

NBP81 said:
What are you basing this on? Surely you're not talking about their fisrst NFL season as they were pretty much the same in their rookie year... rating 87/89, comp% 64/65, TD% 3.8(Tua)/3.2%(Joe), INT%1.7%(Tua)/1.2%(Joe)... Now you're taking all this and using tremendous and "has absorbed and mastered his playbook better than anyone" when in fact... He really didnt, at least not to an extent were "its not even close"...

Bigger physical build incluiding height and muscle... Height and muscle? seriously? BTW... Batted passes at the LOS: Tua = 2 Herbert = 7

Tua is more accurate than both these guys combined.

Again with the "He's strong and tall" argument... That **** dont matter in the NFL... There's absolutely no evidence that taller QBs are more successful in the NFL. If Anything, once they get taller than 6'4", data suggest they're not as likely to succeed... But that doesnt fit your agenda so carry on...

This is your assesment of the Fins offense this season...



Im sorry this is downright delusional...
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Tua...290 attempts.....Herbert 595....who would you guess had more balls batted?
 
BlueFin said:
How many games does Tua win without our defense?

Digital made great points.

I would have drafted Herbert...and I swap them right now!
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We know! The Herbert is King thread and Charger forum is that way —->

I don’t entertain that horse cra$
 
Digital said:
Glad you are now discussing the merits:

Tua's ceiling is as a solid player:
Tua is small, but in today's NFL that is less of a drawback than it was in the power eras when the rules didn't protect the QB so much. Tua is elusive, but nobody will ever confuse him with Kyler Murray, Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. In fact, he's not the running threat that Justin Herbert is, or Josh Allen, or about half of the NFL. His mobility is ... NFL average. Not bad, just not elite. Tua's running ability is probably on par with guys like Aaron Rodgers, who while he loves his Discount Double-Check, is only an average NFL runner. Rodgers is MVP because he uses his mobility to showcase his cannon of an arm, quick release and unbelievably accurate throws. As a thrower, Tua is accurate ... but not dominantly so. Tua's best features are 1) decision making (as shown through avoiding INT's), and 2) accuracy (as shown through giving his guy a chance to catch the ball without allowing the defense the chance to get an INT). Those are the things demanded of all starting NFL QB's. If these become elite, then his decision making and accuracy will rise to Brady levels ... but Brady is 6'5 and still has a strong arm. Tua will need to make those throws when the DB's get a beat longer to react, so it will be tougher.
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I would add:
3) Tua seems to have decent pocket presence and can feel and evade pressure.
 
BlueFin said:
Tua...290 attempts.....Herbert 595....who would you guess had more balls batted?
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Too bad you dont have a napkin and a pen at your disposal... Very simple math here... Even if you adjust for attempts, 6'6" still has almost twice the amount of batted passes than 6"0'... Nice try...
 
Now we are arguing over batted passes? Who cares? I am sure completion percentage covers that. Hey Pachy, that is Joe Burrow 1-0 in our QB bet. Tell me when you want to tap out.

I preface that by saying I hope I have to pay but hopefully that is because Tua raises his level not Burrow struggling after his surgery.
 
It's a fair evaluation. Tua had an uneven rookie year with both promising moments and not so good bbn ones.

Having a full training camp will help. So will adding talent around him.
 
1Herbert 2.Burrow 3.jalen hurst 4. Tua. 5. Love...hurst most surprised rookie. Herbert so fur had best out draft.. Tua got time gain on them next yr...
 
NBP81 said:
Too bad you dont have a napkin and a pen at your disposal... Very simple math here... Even if you adjust for attempts, 6'6" still has almost twice the amount of batted passes than 6"0'... Nice try...
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So Herbert had around 1% of his passes batted...Tua had about 70% as high a rate....who would you say threw downfield more?
 
Digital said:
Well the three of them are playing out about how I predicted. IMHO, by far the highest ceiling guy in the QB class was Justin Herbert and I said it many times (despite the sea of naysayers). But the most skilled guy is Joe Burrow. Tua is a solid QB who makes good decisions and is generally accurate, but he's not the type of guy who can put the team on his shoulders. He will be limited by his arm, and he's not an elite athlete, elite size, or an elite arm talent. He's a good solid player, who will be an excellent game manager. He has great character and is a great person. But at the top of the draft, people want sky high ceilings, and that's just not who he is.
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I'll settle for one of them game manager types without elite athleticism or arm strength like Brees, Brady, Manning, Montana....

Depending on physical attributes when attempting to judge the ceiling of a young quarterback is just lazy. In this history of this league we've seen great quarterbacks of all shapes and sizes. There are so many factors that go into a player making it into that elite category and the fact that Herbert can launch a ball 50 yds off his back foot is somewhere way down that list.

Herbert had a historically great season as a rookie and if you saw that coming then kudos to you. I'm pretty sure noone else did including Herbert himself or his coaches. He did some things that are probably unsustainable and I just hope for his sake if he regresses in year two the same folks praising themselves for their own brilliant prognostications in year one don't label him a failure.

I'll maintain that its a fools errand to try to and predict what these kids will become after one season as a pro. So much depends on the willingness of the player to continue to invest an inordinate amount of time and effort into this game and the ability of the franchise to provide the support needed for them to continue to grow and excel on the field.
 
Ferretsquig said:
I'll settle for one of them game manager types without elite athleticism or arm strength like Brees, Brady, Manning, Montana....

Depending on physical attributes when attempting to judge the ceiling of a young quarterback is just lazy. In this history of this league we've seen great quarterbacks of all shapes and sizes. There are so many factors that go into a player making it into that elite category and the fact that Herbert can launch a ball 50 yds off his back foot is somewhere way down that list.

Herbert had a historically great season as a rookie and if you saw that coming then kudos to you. I'm pretty sure noone else did including Herbert himself or his coaches. He did some things that are probably unsustainable and I just hope for his sake if he regresses in year two the same folks praising themselves for their own brilliant prognostications in year one don't label him a failure.

I'll maintain that its a fools errand to try to and predict what these kids will become after one season as a pro. So much depends on the willingness of the player to continue to invest an inordinate amount of time and effort into this game and the ability of the franchise to provide the support needed for them to continue to grow and excel on the field.
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Well before the draft I posted multiple scouting reports from Chris Simms and Paul Bermeister that broke down why the supposed flaws in Herbert's game were mostly a function of the very bad Oregon offense. You're right, almost everyone just jumped on the bandwagon and blamed Herbert for the stale Oregon offense, but there were a few who saw it for what it was. They also pointed out the offenses and rosters of Alabama and LSU and how they impacted everyone's analysis of Tua and Burrow. I like Chris Simms. He's not always right, but he makes up his own mind and lays out why he thinks the way he does. When he's wrong--as all of us are--he adjusts his rankings and owns up to being wrong and why. Gotta respect that kind of honesty.
 
The Fins should trade out of #3 pick for a Kings random.
Give Tua another year and see where the team stands.
Use this draft to fill holes and solidify the team.
If Tua flops them will still have plenty of draft options to make another move.
The only caveat to this is if the team has already decided that a top QB should be picked this year and let the best man win. Im ok with that. Im not a Tua fan, Im a Dolphins fan.
 
LANGER72 said:
The Fins should trade out of #3 pick for a Kings random.
Give Tua another year and see where the team stands.
Use this draft to fill holes and solidify the team.
If Tua flops them will still have plenty of draft options to make another move.
The only caveat to this is if the team has already decided that a top QB should be picked this year and let the best man win. Im ok with that. Im not a Tua fan, Im a Dolphins fan.
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Hopefully... we can get an offer like that.

We might also trade down a couple of times for smaller amounts each time.
 
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