Pick 44, Round 2

[FloridaWildcat]

I have been lurking here for awhile. It is not my plan to have some jump down my throat but from what I've seen it is going to happen. I am going to bring up yet another thread on a very hot topic... And no it doesn't involve, Porter, Ginn or Taylor.



Here are some logical reasons why Pat White is a viable weapon for Miami.

He is proven one of the fastest quarterbacks since Michael Vick. He has the leadership of a Ben Roethlisburger. He has the accuracy of a Chad Pennington.
He is also intelligent, has excellent vision, and has the best pocket awareness of any quarterback that was drafted last year.

The only question was his arm strength, and it is far from unacceptable.
NFL scouts were moderately impressed with arm strength. If you have a cannon for an arm, you will get drafted in the first round.
Remember Kyle Boller sitting on his knees and throwing a football 50 yards through the goal posts? Where is he now?

Bill Parcells was obviously out to grab this guy. Anyone question Parcells and his foresight?

He would never spend such a high pick on a player to be used as a bench warmer gimmick.
White turns the wildcat into a much more effective option. They have the right coaches, and now they have the right players with Pat, Ricky and Ronnie.

What can White do for the Dolphins in the future? Miami could have the most versatile offense in the history of the NFL. No exaggeration.
Miami could run the spread offense easily with a QB like White.

With his abilities in the pocket, they could use a West Coast-style offense with boot legs and quick hits.
The Wildcat could become even more effective because of him.
The OPTION OFFENSE returning to the NFL could finally become a reality thanks to him and Parcells.
Can Henne do any of that?
That is not to say that Henne is not a worthwhile quarterback. The reality is that we have no clue as to how great either player is going to be.
Do not write off Pat White as a full-time starting quarterback. You would be doing this team a disservice.


One of the keys to the Dolphins coming back from a 1 win season was Sparano taking risks and trying out new ideas. He used Ronnie Brown in a single-wing formation. From that he ran multiple different options. Brown ran the ball on a draw. Brown handed off to a receiver in motion. Sparano even let Brown throw the ball down the field a time or two. He even started throwing spirals!

The Dolphins had nothing to lose. No one expected them to win a lot of games, so they were free to take chances with players, play calls, and overall schemes.
Now, they have a chance to take it even a step further. In college, Pat White proved himself to be one of the most successful quarterbacks in NCAA history at running the spread.
So who better to test it out in the NFL than him?
Line up White in the backfield with Ronnie Brown. Put Teddy Ginn, Jr. in motion. See what happens. If it all falls flat, would Miami have lost that much? Probably not.
To make the playoffs, the Dolphins will probably need to go 10-6. That means Henne would need to finish the year 10-3. But the schedule still includes games against the Bills, Patriots, Titans, and the Steelers.

Chad Henne can’t be expected to pull off such a feat. He simply isn’t going to be the difference in whether the Dolphins make the playoffs this year or not.
Of course, Pat White probably wouldn’t be the difference, either. But Miami would learn a lot more with White. At worst, Sparano would learn the limits of the spread offense. At best, he would find himself at the start of a new era in the NFL.


I will agree to disagree as long a we all stay reasonable. This is Fin Heaven, right?

 

[Rev Kev]

Unseat Henne - plain no...

PW will get plenty of snaps and plenty of opportunities in the future, and that's why he is even on the field so much at this juncture, anyone can see that he is not ready..., so even when he is not ready they have PW in there to get aclimated because he will come in and often a lot in years to come and it really has nothing to do with Henne...

 

[fatkirstyalley]

Chad Henne is a better QB than Pat White. Period end of story. Make PW a Wide Reciever and be done with it

 

[nwskan]

Don't discount the value of Henne growing and learning this year even if we don't make the playoffs, which, unfortunately, we probably won't.

And I their quarterback drafting philosophy is just like their philosophy with other positions: they hedge their bets. They needed a guard, so they picked up Murphy and Thomas. Low and behold, from those two picks we got one pretty good starting guard. We needed a Dline, so we got Merling, Langford and Dotson. Langford, for sure, is a gem.

Henne looks really good right now, and I think every Finfan ought to be pleased with his development, especially given his lack of a marquee receiver; but it wasn't foolhardy to draft another quarterback just in case - and that's without the added value White brings as a change-up quarterback who can operate his own package.

But it doesn't mean that White should be starting - not with Henne looking like a very, very solid long-term answer at quarterback.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Henne had a bad throw, but he's been surprisingly solid this season. Give him a WR that can actually make catches down the field, and the sky is the limit for this kid. He throws a great deep ball. Unfortunately, his only real deep threat can't catch.

I'm not down on White. But, Henne is the franchise QB we've been looking for. That TD pass to the new TE was a difficult throw (good catch by the TE, too), and many of the throws he made on that final drive were absolutely perfect.

 

[Vaark]

Nice first thread starter and post (which is a welcome change from too many of the newbies who've lately proved that thread-starting ability should be an earned privilege rather than an automatic right).

I don't understand why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel, especially since we have our most promising young QB since Marino under center. Granted White can be electrifying, or at least he was in a second-tier conference college spread formation. But to further monkey with Henne's continuity and confidence is IMO self-defeating, especially since White has proven nothing other than when lined up, he looks like a little boy among men out there. Last I looked #44 was a lower pick than #40, John Beck, or #6 Vernon Gholston. Because the Trifecta took him high doesn't necessarily mean they were any more correct than in signing Eric Green, Jamil Wilson or Ernest Wilford. We have a very promising and poised young QB now who has a better 6game W/L record than 1st yr starter Tom Brady on his team's way to the SB . Why do people want to topple the apple cart when its firmly upright?

True we're not going anywhere this year but still there is definite downside in experimenting to see how White would run an option and how Ginn might be better deployed. And that's vital time taken away from Henne's maturation. He needs to stay under center, take his lumps and learn on the fly. In a way, aside from Henne learning from Pennington how to be a professional QB on and off the field, in one respect, I almost wish we had never signed CP. While it was a great feel good turnaround season, in hindsight, our success was short-lived and certainly not residual into this season. Conversely, had Henne taken snaps from the getgo in 08, at this point, he could well be as effective as Flacco, who started out miserably before the light went on in the 13th game, has become.

So if utilizing White means precious time stolen from Henne, I would hope the FO is sufficiently prudent and forsightful in opposing that possibility; however if there are new ways to exploit White's (yet unproven) talents as a more regular offensive weapon at Henne's disposal, which will make him better and more confident, then I am all for it!

 

[tcolli17]

How many passes has he completed this year?

No need to answer.

 

[Dajesus]

Who knows what White will or can do in the future, but right now we need to pull the plug on the experiment. The "pistol" has turned in to one big play, and a bunch of 3rd and longs. Out side of the pass he overthrew to Ginn he has looked scared in the pocket. It is time to let Henne stay in the game like a normal QB, and see what he can do. Now that Brown is out we need to run Rickey down throats, and hit play action passes. We can see what White can do in practice, and next year.

 

[MD]

A lot of people miss the point that the OL was built for power not speed. White and the OL are not a match.

White's accuracy coming out of college was due to WR screens and quick slants. In other words, high percentage passes.

I would like to see White try coming out of the slot. He can make plays but QB is not the spot for him to do so on this team.

 

[phintim]

While I am still open on the Pat White experiment because we are reteaching him how to throw the ball and it takes time we still need to see some completed passes this year from him before he can be considered a threat or a real offensive weapon.
What I did notice is in the Bucs game this weekend when he went in it was the first time I felt he looked comfortable like he belonged out there. Because of that I exepcted him to deliver a big play which did not happen but that in it self is progress.
Yes he looks too small and has not completed that pass yet "but" once he feels like he belongs that is the first big step to seeing what we have.
PS IT appears the players as usual know the players better as well or better than the staff and that sucessful option play he ran last week was something they had been asking about among themselves and why the staff was not implementing it.

 

[3rdandinches]

Chad Henne can’t be expected to pull off such a feat. He simply isn’t going to be the difference in whether the Dolphins make the playoffs this year or not.
Of course, Pat White probably wouldn’t be the difference, either

This seems to make your arguement less valid! If PW doesn't have that much of a difference in games then he was a wasted pick. X-factor players are suppose to make an impact not waste reps! We are not going to introduce some new offense that's going to change the world, even the WC is just a power run formation. Our best chance at winning and winning consistantly will be on the development of C.Henne. A big part of that is playing time and then getting him weapons to take advantage of his skill sets.

I'd be all for PW if he came in the game and did something positive but the fact remains he has very little impact on the offense and has done nothing greater then what Henne could do but in a different form!

 

[NY8123]

I have been lurking here for awhile. It is not my plan to have some jump down my throat but from what I've seen it is going to happen. I am going to bring up yet another thread on a very hot topic... And no it doesn't involve, Porter, Ginn or Taylor.



Here are some logical reasons why Pat White is a viable weapon for Miami.

He is proven one of the fastest quarterbacks since Michael Vick. He has the leadership of a Ben Roethlisburger. He has the accuracy of a Chad Pennington.
He is also intelligent, has excellent vision, and has the best pocket awareness of any quarterback that was drafted last year.

The only question was his arm strength, and it is far from unacceptable.
NFL scouts were moderately impressed with arm strength. If you have a cannon for an arm, you will get drafted in the first round.
Remember Kyle Boller sitting on his knees and throwing a football 50 yards through the goal posts? Where is he now?

Bill Parcells was obviously out to grab this guy. Anyone question Parcells and his foresight?

He would never spend such a high pick on a player to be used as a bench warmer gimmick.
White turns the wildcat into a much more effective option. They have the right coaches, and now they have the right players with Pat, Ricky and Ronnie.

What can White do for the Dolphins in the future? Miami could have the most versatile offense in the history of the NFL. No exaggeration.
Miami could run the spread offense easily with a QB like White.

With his abilities in the pocket, they could use a West Coast-style offense with boot legs and quick hits.
The Wildcat could become even more effective because of him.
The OPTION OFFENSE returning to the NFL could finally become a reality thanks to him and Parcells.
Can Henne do any of that?
That is not to say that Henne is not a worthwhile quarterback. The reality is that we have no clue as to how great either player is going to be.
Do not write off Pat White as a full-time starting quarterback. You would be doing this team a disservice.


One of the keys to the Dolphins coming back from a 1 win season was Sparano taking risks and trying out new ideas. He used Ronnie Brown in a single-wing formation. From that he ran multiple different options. Brown ran the ball on a draw. Brown handed off to a receiver in motion. Sparano even let Brown throw the ball down the field a time or two. He even started throwing spirals!

The Dolphins had nothing to lose. No one expected them to win a lot of games, so they were free to take chances with players, play calls, and overall schemes.
Now, they have a chance to take it even a step further. In college, Pat White proved himself to be one of the most successful quarterbacks in NCAA history at running the spread.
So who better to test it out in the NFL than him?
Line up White in the backfield with Ronnie Brown. Put Teddy Ginn, Jr. in motion. See what happens. If it all falls flat, would Miami have lost that much? Probably not.
To make the playoffs, the Dolphins will probably need to go 10-6. That means Henne would need to finish the year 10-3. But the schedule still includes games against the Bills, Patriots, Titans, and the Steelers.

Chad Henne can’t be expected to pull off such a feat. He simply isn’t going to be the difference in whether the Dolphins make the playoffs this year or not.
Of course, Pat White probably wouldn’t be the difference, either. But Miami would learn a lot more with White. At worst, Sparano would learn the limits of the spread offense. At best, he would find himself at the start of a new era in the NFL.


I will agree to disagree as long a we all stay reasonable. This is Fin Heaven, right?

Your points are well taken and they do make sense from a certain point of view. Your assumption is that Parcells used a high draft pick to choose a QB in White because of the endless potential to the offense.

I offer you another point of view, Parcells took a QB in the 2nd round of both drafts because he had no clearly established QB in house. At the beginning of his first year he had Beck and Lemon as viable options and this year all he had was an aging QB with a history of shoulder problems it doesn’t take a big stretch to see Parcells was covering his own ***. By drafting White he had an option if Henne were inserted in the offense and did not produce on an NFL level. As it played out this year Henne did indeed get his shot early due to injury and has performed pretty well for a young QB.

I doubt you will see White on the field in any capacity other then specialty plays unless a) Henne is injured b) Henne regresses and doesn’t improve. While White has an upside to Henne, running and rolling the speed of the NFL is exactly why no one runs the option offense, even the big fat linemen in the NFL can go really fast for 40 yards. This is the potential drawback to using White, if his arm strength became a liability (like Pennington) he could at least scramble but the problem is rushing due to pass coverage is different then rushing a QB simply to rush him. That was the stark difference between Randall Cunningham, Kordell Stewart and Mike Vick compared to Young, Elway and Mcnair. The first three mentiond like to rush to rush and the last three rushed becasue of coverage. Which three would you take to build a franchise around?

 

[tay0365]

I have been lurking here for awhile. It is not my plan to have some jump down my throat but from what I've seen it is going to happen. I am going to bring up yet another thread on a very hot topic... And no it doesn't involve, Porter, Ginn or Taylor.



Here are some logical reasons why Pat White is a viable weapon for Miami.

He is proven one of the fastest quarterbacks since Michael Vick. He has the leadership of a Ben Roethlisburger. He has the accuracy of a Chad Pennington.
He is also intelligent, has excellent vision, and has the best pocket awareness of any quarterback that was drafted last year.

The only question was his arm strength, and it is far from unacceptable.
NFL scouts were moderately impressed with arm strength. If you have a cannon for an arm, you will get drafted in the first round.
Remember Kyle Boller sitting on his knees and throwing a football 50 yards through the goal posts? Where is he now?

Bill Parcells was obviously out to grab this guy. Anyone question Parcells and his foresight?

He would never spend such a high pick on a player to be used as a bench warmer gimmick.
White turns the wildcat into a much more effective option. They have the right coaches, and now they have the right players with Pat, Ricky and Ronnie.

What can White do for the Dolphins in the future? Miami could have the most versatile offense in the history of the NFL. No exaggeration.
Miami could run the spread offense easily with a QB like White.

With his abilities in the pocket, they could use a West Coast-style offense with boot legs and quick hits.
The Wildcat could become even more effective because of him.
The OPTION OFFENSE returning to the NFL could finally become a reality thanks to him and Parcells.
Can Henne do any of that?
That is not to say that Henne is not a worthwhile quarterback. The reality is that we have no clue as to how great either player is going to be.
Do not write off Pat White as a full-time starting quarterback. You would be doing this team a disservice.


One of the keys to the Dolphins coming back from a 1 win season was Sparano taking risks and trying out new ideas. He used Ronnie Brown in a single-wing formation. From that he ran multiple different options. Brown ran the ball on a draw. Brown handed off to a receiver in motion. Sparano even let Brown throw the ball down the field a time or two. He even started throwing spirals!

The Dolphins had nothing to lose. No one expected them to win a lot of games, so they were free to take chances with players, play calls, and overall schemes.
Now, they have a chance to take it even a step further. In college, Pat White proved himself to be one of the most successful quarterbacks in NCAA history at running the spread.
So who better to test it out in the NFL than him?
Line up White in the backfield with Ronnie Brown. Put Teddy Ginn, Jr. in motion. See what happens. If it all falls flat, would Miami have lost that much? Probably not.
To make the playoffs, the Dolphins will probably need to go 10-6. That means Henne would need to finish the year 10-3. But the schedule still includes games against the Bills, Patriots, Titans, and the Steelers.

Chad Henne can’t be expected to pull off such a feat. He simply isn’t going to be the difference in whether the Dolphins make the playoffs this year or not.
Of course, Pat White probably wouldn’t be the difference, either. But Miami would learn a lot more with White. At worst, Sparano would learn the limits of the spread offense. At best, he would find himself at the start of a new era in the NFL.


I will agree to disagree as long a we all stay reasonable. This is Fin Heaven, right?

Problems are, he has the height/weight of a highschool receiver, does not have anywhere close to the speed of Mike Vick (only thing that would help counter his lack of size), has seemed lost everytime he has been put in, other then in 1 game.

The best you can say about White is, he is severely inexperienced, and still has a bit of learning before he is ready, the worst is, that he may need to find a better position if he hopes to every compete.

 

[rkit55]

First of all, welcome and I commend you for making such a bold post your first post. I do know what you are talking about and there is nothing that you wrote that is impossible or even necessarily wrong, I just think it is highly, highly unlikely.

I think Pat White was brought in because we had a stale offense that couldn't get a big play last year, so we wanted a player who could give our offense a spark. BP wanted a corner with our first pick because he didnt feel any recievers were as high value, and then he moved to need number two: someone who might give us a big play here and there... and in comes Pat White.

He had a high completion percentage running a spread offense in college that relied on quick screens and slants that any passer would have a high percentage on. Pat White all through training camp and pre-season was criticized for not just poor arm strength, but outright looking like he didn't belong on the field as a QB. In practice he consistently missed open receivers and threw into double coverage.

I dont have any problems with this kid, he's althletic and can help, but even Mike Vick was never great, just athletic. He led Atlanta to a single NFC championship game and handed them a handful of disappointing playoff losses.

Point being: I'll take a tenured QB with a cannon and some confidence over a potential "revolutionary of the game" any day. Because at the end of the day, we've heard about a million people be called that while there have only been a handful of players that actually singlehandedly changed the NFL.

 

[finjim]

All you have to do is look at the NE game to see why Pat White is here and taking some snaps. He makes the defense have to STOP and THINK. He is a decoy, like Ginn should be. As a defense you HAVE to respect the fact that he could take off and pick up 30 yards on you. That takes pressure off the other players. I like the option and it can be near impossible to stop when run correctly.