Playing Time for Tua

volk

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A lot of hyperbole in this post.
Agree to disagree. It is conjecture, yes, but every point is a possible and reasonable explanation. As AdamD13 has rightly pointed out, Flores has long stated he will play the player that gives them the best chance to win. Unless Flores is lying (which would not seem to line up with personnel moves made by him so far), why is it, in your opinion (and without hyperbole), that Tua does not give us the best chance to win?
 

volk

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Just say you don't like Tua and go
When did I say I don't like Tua? I hope he is everything he is hyped up to be. What I don't like is the contradictory information coming out of the organization and lame father figure excuses for not playing him to see if he is the real deal at this level. I actually like Fitz as well, but we cannot go into next season's draft without knowing if Tua is the one.
 

volk

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Or the coaching staff and front office just decided Tua wasn't going to play this year from the very start...

I keep going back to Mahomes... when did he first get a shot in KC his rookie year.... game 16 and he's turned out pretty good.

If they decided not to play him before the season ever began, I believe that would fall under my last point about not knowing how to handle players. As to Mahomes, yes, he turned out fine, but he didn't have a massive injury prior to being drafted, and was sitting behind a QB that was actually getting the Chiefs to the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers sat behind Farve. The situations are very different.
 

volk

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Completely disagree with everything you just wrote, except the last sentence.

Let the young man sit and learn. His time is coming and you and the other Tua haters will get your chance to legitimately trash him.
Again, not a Tua hater. It would appear that there is no ability amongst many of the posters on this site to be objective when it comes to the QB position. BTW, how many amazing college QB have been a complete failure at the next level? Way more than have succeeded. Now, how many coming off an injury as severe as Tua's have gone on to be successful? My guess is very few. Tua is a clean slate right now, an unknown quantity. It is in no way unreasonable to say that he needs to prove he is the one on the field before crowning him because of what he did pre-injury.
 

phinfann13

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When did I say I don't like Tua? I hope he is everything he is hyped up to be. What I don't like is the contradictory information coming out of the organization and lame father figure excuses for not playing him to see if he is the real deal at this level. I actually like Fitz as well, but we cannot go into next season's draft without knowing if Tua is the one.

You listed 5 things and said those were the only possible reasons why he's not playing. Those reasons were:
1. Tua is injured
2. Flores is afraid
3. Tua is emotionally scarred
4. Tua is not picking up the playbook
5. Flores is incompetent

If you think there's only 5 reasons why Tua isn't playing right now, 5 weeks into a season with no OTA's, normal training camps or preseason, then it sounds like you just are being negative and don't like the guy.
 

DolfanDuBbZ~

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Again, not a Tua hater. It would appear that there is no ability amongst many of the posters on this site to be objective when it comes to the QB position. BTW, how many amazing college QB have been a complete failure at the next level? Way more than have succeeded. Now, how many coming off an injury as severe as Tua's have gone on to be successful? My guess is very few. Tua is a clean slate right now, an unknown quantity. It is in no way unreasonable to say that he needs to prove he is the one on the field before crowning him because of what he did pre-injury.


I'm being objective. I was 1 of a very few who wanted Tannehill starting game 1. And I don't remember you being one of us.

I'm objective in the fact that Tua wouldn't have been available to Miami without the injury he sustained last November.

With that said. His pedigree and tape are far superior to the reach at #8 in Tannehill. And I have zero issues letting Fitzpatrick to continue to start for the time being. Tua will get his chance, I just don't think it needs to be right now.

And yes, alot of your post was Tua hate wrapped in a emotional mess.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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we cannot go into next season's draft without knowing if Tua is the one.

Why can’t you?

Secondly, it ain’t like playing him is going to allow everyone to know whether he’s the one anyway. It didn’t work for any quarterback that’s played for Miami since Marino retired. They all had detractors.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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If they decided not to play him before the season ever began, I believe that would fall under my last point about not knowing how to handle players. As to Mahomes, yes, he turned out fine, but he didn't have a massive injury prior to being drafted, and was sitting behind a QB that was actually getting the Chiefs to the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers sat behind Farve. The situations are very different.

Yes the situations are very different - for reasons in addition to the ones you pointed out. Those guys all had normal off seasons consisting of preseasons, mini camps, and OTA’s.

Do you honestly believe Herbert or Burrow would be starting in Miami right now instead of Fitzpatrick? He knows Gailey’s offense like the back of his own hand.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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Again, not a Tua hater. It would appear that there is no ability amongst many of the posters on this site to be objective when it comes to the QB position. BTW, how many amazing college QB have been a complete failure at the next level? Way more than have succeeded. Now, how many coming off an injury as severe as Tua's have gone on to be successful? My guess is very few. Tua is a clean slate right now, an unknown quantity. It is in no way unreasonable to say that he needs to prove he is the one on the field before crowning him because of what he did pre-injury.

My man, Ryan Tannehill had detractors on this board his entire career in Miami. He’s still got em.

Josh Allen has detractors on this board. Matt Ryan has detractors on this board.
Cam Newton has detractors on this board.
Phillip Rivers has detractors on this board.

Russell #%^&ing Wilson has detractors on this board.

Tom Brady has had detractors on this board since I’ve been here.

Quit acting like playing Tua in a jacked up season is going to allow everyone to suddenly get on the same page and have an epiphany together. It’s all nonsense.
 

Yonk1216

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If they decided not to play him before the season ever began, I believe that would fall under my last point about not knowing how to handle players. As to Mahomes, yes, he turned out fine, but he didn't have a massive injury prior to being drafted, and was sitting behind a QB that was actually getting the Chiefs to the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers sat behind Farve. The situations are very different.

Again though.... the injury is only an issue to me because of where it happened....had he broken his wrist or ankle I don't think we're having this conversation..... but that in no way makes it any more likely for it to happen again...... freak accident.

As for your Mahomes point, I think the only difference is that the Dolphins are a bad team where as the Packers and Chiefs had the pieces in place..... were getting the pieces in place but were still a dynamic rb and a wr opposite parker away from being a truly elite offense.


We're only having this conversation because Burrow and Herbert are starting and Herbert only got the shot because of a medical emergency.
 

TheMageGandalf

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Quit acting like playing Tua in a jacked up season is going to allow everyone to suddenly get on the same page and have an epiphany together. It’s all nonsense.

I agree with your reasoning...that being said....I think a lot of it has to do with this teams history of drafting the wrong guy at QB since Marino.

Regardless of how anyone might feel about Tannehill it was just unfortunate that he didn't play as well as he is now (blame whatever or whomever) here.

So due to our history, I think a lot of people are just wondering is this another screw up or did we finally hit on a QB? ....I mean there were seasons that we knew we needed an upgrade at QB and we didn't even bother drafting a QB.

I think the 20 some odd years of waiting for us to finally get a franchise QB is just getting old on a lot of people and I'll say it again...when you've got the coaching staff adding to the anxiety by saying that this latest QB 'what if' (and seriously he's a what if because no one has seen him play a single down in the NFL) is NOT going to give us a better chance to win than a QB that's been on 8 teams, is old (in NFL years), and is a model of inconsistent QB play.....its just going to sow doubts about things ....again especially given this teams track record at the QB position since even before Marino retired (being that they really never had a back up plan...I think Mitchell and maybe Huard were the best we got during Dan's time....I don't count Erickson)...
 

Joe Dolfan

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People really should stop using comparisons to other QBs to predict the best time to play Tua; it's dumb and flawed, as one can use whatever example they please merely to justify whatever point they're trying to make.

Brady (not the GOAT) played a few snaps in his rookie season and only became the starter when Bledsoe was injured in year two.

Montana and Marino took over roughly mid-way through their rookie seasons.

Manning and Elway both started from day one, but Elway was benched a couple times for stinking up the joint and even lost his starting gig until DeBerg got injured.

Favre sat for a year in Atlanta and then was traded to GB, where he sat behind Magic Man for a whole game and then became the starter.

Brees sat behind Flutie his rookie season and won the starting job his second year.

The fact is, and any of you with half a brain know this, all QBs are different and take longer to prove they're ready to play.

Tua just isn't ready yet.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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I agree with your reasoning...that being said....I think a lot of it has to do with this teams history of drafting the wrong guy at QB since Marino.

Regardless of how anyone might feel about Tannehill it was just unfortunate that he didn't play as well as he is now (blame whatever or whomever) here.

So due to our history, I think a lot of people are just wondering is this another screw up or did we finally hit on a QB? ....I mean there were seasons that we knew we needed an upgrade at QB and we didn't even bother drafting a QB.

I think the 20 some odd years of waiting for us to finally get a franchise QB is just getting old on a lot of people and I'll say it again...when you've got the coaching staff adding to the anxiety by saying that this latest QB 'what if' (and seriously he's a what if because no one has seen him play a single down in the NFL) is NOT going to give us a better chance to win than a QB that's been on 8 teams, is old (in NFL years), and is a model of inconsistent QB play.....its just going to sow doubts about things ....again especially given this teams track record at the QB position since even before Marino retired (being that they really never had a back up plan...I think Mitchell and maybe Huard were the best we got during Dan's time....I don't count Erickson)...

That’s part of it. But the other part is that the large majority of people that want to see Tua thrown in there before the timing is right are all of his detractors to begin with. The ones that believe he’s going to be a great quarterback as long as he’s fortunate injury wise are the ones willing to show patience.

Which includes the coaching staff, and higher ups in the organization.

Everyone knows nothing good is going to come from putting a kid in there before the time is right for him to succeed. But there’s some people that would like nothing more than to hurry up and see that should it be the case.

You’re not going to draft a better quarterback prospect than Tua Tagovailoa in the 2021 draft anyway. You can draft another one if you just want to. But I doubt you can draft a better one.
 
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Kamelion4291

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That’s part of it. But the other part is that the large majority of people that want to see Tua thrown in there before the timing is right are all of his detractors to begin with. The ones that believe he’s going to be a great quarterback as long as he’s fortunate injury wise are the ones willing to show patience.

Which includes the coaching staff, and higher ups in the organization.

Everyone knows nothing good is going to come from putting a kid in there before the time is right for him to succeed. But there’s some people that would like nothing more than to hurry up and see that should it be the case.

You’re not going to draft a better quarterback prospect than Tua Tagovailoa in the 2021 draft anyway. You can draft another one if you just want to. But I doubt you can draft a better one.
So you're saying maybe it's not wise to bench a top 5 QBR QB in favor of a rookie that didn't have a preseason?
 

volk

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You listed 5 things and said those were the only possible reasons why he's not playing. Those reasons were:
1. Tua is injured
2. Flores is afraid
3. Tua is emotionally scarred
4. Tua is not picking up the playbook
5. Flores is incompetent

If you think there's only 5 reasons why Tua isn't playing right now, 5 weeks into a season with no OTA's, normal training camps or preseason, then it sounds like you just are being negative and don't like the guy.
You are reading your own biases into what I wrote. FWIW, there are scores of rookies all over the NFL that are starting at all types of positions that also had no OTA's, TC's or preseason. What makes Tua so special that he must be protected and insulated from the game?
 
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