Pre-Combine Board

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by j-off-her-doll, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    The most significant part of evaluation is evaluating your evaluation. I like to do that. I'm going to go back and comb through everything one more time with Vea.
     
  2. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    After going back and evaluating my evaluation of Vea, I understand why some are exceptionally high on him. He gets pressure.

    I even went back and viewed some of his 2016 season again when he couldn't even stay on the field 3 downs. I looked very closely at his game against Alabama in the playoffs.

    Although to be honest, I never use statistics the way you provided them here in my evaluations. Some might, but there's too many holes and too many variables to consider it an apples to apples comparison. I don't view it any more significantly than I do runningbacks with the most rushing yards or DB's with the most interceptions. They have about the same use for me.

    One of the biggest things that separates a conference like the SEC from the PAC-12 are both lines of scrimmage. It's just a different game. To illustrate this and provide a statistical element to it, you can look at the recruiting.

    Just over the past 4 years, the average recruiting class of the SEC ranks 19th nationally. While the average recruiting class of the PAC-12 ranks 34th. That difference is seen along the lines of scrimmage when they play each other. It's almost not a fair fight.

    However, Vita Vea could clearly match up with Alabama, despite Bo Scarbrough running all over em.

    I look at the guys Vea is getting pressure against in the PAC-12, and they're just guys. They're not up to snuff. Even the hyped or known ones can't even sniff a combine invite. JAGS are overmatched against Vea, and that's what the majority of PAC-12 offensive lines are made of.

    Bottom line is, I can consider moving Vea up one spot on my underclassman list above Harrison Phillips and feel ok about it. He's one of the top DT's in this class. I couldn't put him above Payne or Bryan though.

    Although I ultimately agree with J, I just don't like the return on Vea for as high as he's projected to be drafted...and that's with feeling that he's going to be a pretty good player. But Haloti Ngata? Ngata was getting darn near double digit TFL and sacks in the PAC-12 when he left. Vea doesn't have Ngata's stamina or balance.

    I eventually settle on a kid like Vea in the 20's if we're talking about 1st round. He should at least be on the board as long as Vince Wilfork was.

    Speaking of a Vea/Ngata comparison, I liken Taven Bryan to J.J. Watt. That's what gets my blood pumping. I can see it on tape. I've never seen Vea dominate games the way Bryan or Payne have....in the SEC.

    If Taven Bryan plays to his potential at the next level, he's the best in this class if you ask me.
     
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  3. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I love Phillips, because he sheds blocks at will and knows how to leverage plays. He's definitely not as athletic as Vea, but he looked like he faced as many double and triple teams as Vea did at Washington - and slid around the line like Vea. I haven't seen the numbers, so I could be wrong about how often each faced double teams, but guys who play a lot of NT, and face a lot of double teams, don't make plays in the backfield like Phillips. When I can point to why a guy makes a lot of plays - using his length, strength, instincts, intelligence, and understanding of leverage (3X State Champion Wrestler) - and he does in fact make a lot of plays. The best OL Phillips faced this year was Notre Dame, where he caused a lot of problems for the Notre Dame OL. Here he is pushing Quenton Nelson into the action.

     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  4. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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  5. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This OT class is already longer than last year, but surprised to see Jones and Crosby <6'5. Good look for Daniels.
     
  6. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I missed Christian and still have to check him out. Thoughts on him? I see Slimm has him as the last UC OT.
     
  7. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  8. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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  9. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  10. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    I bet Miami’s FO passes on every one of them. I would be shocked if they pick any of them.
     
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  11. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  12. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    And the next Dolphin... lol

     
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  13. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  14. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Did a quick count, and I have 24 DB's with grades of 3rd or better. Curious to see how many fall this week, but it looks like another strong year at CB and Safety.
     
  15. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  16. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Good look for Moore.
     
  17. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  18. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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  19. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Nelson put it up 35 times. Good gawd. There's a good chance he'll solidify himself as the #1 OL in the draft by the end of the week. He might not be there at 11.

    I'm also warming up to the idea of drafting him given what's still on the board. We could use a potentially dominant guard.
     
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  20. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Braden Smith did too. Without even getting red or breaking a sweat. Damn.
     
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  21. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan

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    Great job Mr. Doll. Is your evaluation slanted at all towards what you believe our certified draft da Vinci's are about to masterfully create (well, maybe NOT)?

    Beyond that -- really enjoy all you draft gurus and y'all draft mountain Sherpas!
     
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  22. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Thank you, BigNastyFish! Not slanted at all. This is where I like each player.
     
  23. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This surprised me a bit. I don't put much stock in the bench, but 30+ reps is certainly not a bad sign. I think most would agree that Nelson looks and plays stronger than Smith, but I think he's been somewhat forgotten, and he's a nice prospect. Should test well.
     
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  24. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Ditto. Always viewed him as more a finesse guy who might be able to show value by being able to slide out to T in a pinch if his footwork checked out and arms were long enough. That frame did not equal putting up 35 reps that easily to me. Gotta love the combine.

    Definitely rethinking that one.
     
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  25. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    On the other end, Penny had something like 14 reps, but I don't care. He's can play.

     
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  26. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    That's the biggest weakness I've always seen on the field with Barkley. I said it back during the season, but it's what keeps him out of the Gurley, Elliott, Fournette category of backs. He doesn't run with the power or tackle breaking ability they did.

    I remember Todd Gurley averaging over 5 yards/carry on runs where he was hit in the backfield. Insane.
     
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  27. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Penny is my favorite RB in the class.
     
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  28. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Definitely. But lineman need to have at least requisite strength. When you can only put up 20 like our boy JMart, it might be time to go back to the drawing board. Even better when they pump out 35 reps like it's cool.

    Hernandez just put up 37. These guys are monsters.

    Barkley put up 29. He's gonna light this thing up.
     
  29. Stoobz

    Stoobz Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Barkley reminds me of Daniel Thomas too much.

    I know it's not right and it's unfair but it keeps bringing up that horrible nightmare of a RB.
     
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  30. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I agree, Slimm. In the right situation, I can see Barkley as a 1,000/1,000 back, but he's not consistent enough as a runner to control games on the ground the way those players did/do. Forte and David Johnson are the two guys I keep coming back to as comps.
     
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  31. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    That comp never came to mind, but I think I know what you mean - dances a lot and runs a little soft for his size. Luckily for Barkley, he has more redeeming qualities than Thomas.
     
  32. russdoe

    russdoe Rookie

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    From the limited views of Barkley I've seen in the big10, he gets his yards by out accelerating the defense in space. But he is big enough to not shy from contact.
    A lot of teams tried to shut him down but only northwesten could do it with some success.
    Barkley is a true #1 feature back.
    Miami taking him would be a luxury pick with drake showing promise.
     
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  33. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    It's early in the Combine, but, so far, the disappointments have been few and far between. Orlando Brown was terrible, but his 3-cone (relative to his size) showed why he was able to be an effective LT at Oklahoma. Jones II came hurt himself running the 40 and Walton ran slower than he is, but everyone know Jones II is fast, and Walton is returning from an injury. Hopefully, with more time, Walton will have a better Pro Day. Jones II's primary issue is that he runs into the back of his OL to often, and his vision is just pretty good - not high-level. My initial comparison was the one that everyone seems to be making - Jamaal Charles. They do move in similar ways, with great make-you-miss ability. They're slippery. The key difference, as I watched more of Jones II, is that Charles had elite vision and instincts, and Jones II does not. Charles was also a more accomplished, and I'd say natural, receiver coming out of Texas. I still like Jones II, but some of the praise laps his skill.

    Anyway, the overarching point is that none of Barkley, Guice, Penny, Kelly, Jones II, Johnson, Chubb, or Freeman did anything to hurt their stock. To this point, they were who we thought they were - great-to-very-good RB's, with physical talent ranging from plenty good to exceptional. Adams didn't do anything, and he's concerning me a bit, but I'm not going to drop him before that.

    OL had some problems. My guy, Jamarco Jones, is making me feel bad, but more on that later.
     
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  34. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Nick Chubb is just a physical marvel. Beast.

    No telling what his testing would've looked like without the injury. I like my football team with as many Nick Chubbs on it as i can find.
     
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  35. Lovethefish

    Lovethefish Well-Known Member

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    He reminds me a bit of Frank Gore- perhaps a tad more explosive, but more in terms of persona. This kid seems serious- a pro's pro sort of speak.
     
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  36. Stoobz

    Stoobz Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    I've heard several thoughts about Chubb being a better pro than Michel. He looks like he runs people over with speed and authority on a routine basis.
     
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  37. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So far, not so good for the CB group, but Oliver measured well. Not as high on him as some, but word is he'll test very well.
     
  38. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Davis also with the desired length to play outside - not a surprise.
     
  39. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Another non-surprise. Hill just needs to stay out of trouble, but, to this point, that's been tough for him.
     
  40. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So far so good for Gallup and Chark.
     

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