Qb Pick Now, Or Qb Pick Next Draft?

[Phinatic8u]

That plan is a a fiction of your imagination. Planning for a top pick is a very poor strategy and is bound to fail. Too many things go wrong. "Tanking" for that magical top pick QB is the buzzword for fans who have no idea how the NFL works and how to properly build a team. It is a simplifying method trying to understand a complex structure.

I agree, tanking wont work in the NFL.

I absolutely agree with the notion Miami is all in on a qb in 2020, by all means.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I have to respectfully disagree with that tweet Slimm..

Clemson prepped for ND the same way they prep for any team, including Bama. The difference from this years game versus last years game was Clemson not having Kelly Bryant and Bama losing elite DB talent. In the 2018 game Bama's offense didn't do anything special at all, it was all defense. Because defending Kelly Bryant is easier than defending Jalen Hurts.

No they didn't. I know what they did different against Alabama that they hadn't done or shown all year. So does Cubelic. I know exactly what they did different and where.

Hurts and Bryant are both much easier to defend than Tua or Trevor. Which is why Bama's offense did nothing last year against Clemson. Or Auburn. Or Georgia until Tua came in.

 

[Phinatic8u]

No they didn't. I know what they did different against Alabama that they hadn't done or shown all year. So does Cubelic. I know exactly what they did different and where.

Hurts and Bryant are both much easier to defend than Tua or Trevor. Which is why Bama's offense did nothing last year against Clemson. Or Auburn. Or Georgia until Tua came in.

Possibly, but I don't think they spent all year on Bama. Showing new things and adapting them doesn't take a year.

 

[Phindog]

I agree, tanking wont work in the NFL.

I absolutely agree with the notion Miami is all in on a qb in 2020, by all means.

Miami doesn't need to Tank in 2019 which I personally feel is impossible in todays NFL to get a top QB.

If they really like Tua and lets say they are in the 6th to 13th pick in 2020 draft.

Trade the farm and do it the right way and get him.

 

[phins_4_ever]

I agree, tanking wont work in the NFL.

I absolutely agree with the notion Miami is all in on a qb in 2020, by all means.

They are in at QB for both years if necessary. If they can identify a QB they want this year they will try to get him. If they can't they will find a temporary solution and will try next year.
If they are in striking range of a QB they identified as possible franchise QB they will pull the trigger. None of them sits there and says "oh, let's forget about this year and we are all in next year for Tua".

What if Tua has a substandard year? Or worse: he gets hurt?

Picking a QB is more than just his success in college on the football field. Is he smart enough to learn in the NFL? Does he have the ability to identify complex NFL defensive schemes? For a QB the move up to the NFL is a mega move and you have no idea how they will adapt.

I was in on Murphy but since reports came out that he might be as dumb as box of rocks I revised that. Talent alone can bring you only so far in the NFL. The rest is all work ethic, ability to learn and comprehend.

 

[LargoFin]

Trade the farm and do it the right way and get him.

If Browns want to take Mayfield, they are not offering the pick, not even for the farm.
Same goes for the Kardinals, if they want Murray, they will not trade the pick.

Maybe trading up the farm can be done very early, like early January when teams are not heavily into the draft, and garbage info has the QB class depressed. Maybe you can catch them unsuspecting.

Dolphins should have done that on Jan 3. They did not. They did not do it last year. They did not do it two years ago, nor three years ago. That says it all. Lack of commitment to winning, and the tanking is just another in the line of those moves.

 

[Phinatic8u]

They are in at QB for both years if necessary. If they can identify a QB they want this year they will try to get him. If they can't they will find a temporary solution and will try next year.
If they are in striking range of a QB they identified as possible franchise QB they will pull the trigger. None of them sits there and says "oh, let's forget about this year and we are all in next year for Tua".

What if Tua has a substandard year? Or worse: he gets hurt?

Picking a QB is more than just his success in college on the football field. Is he smart enough to learn in the NFL? Does he have the ability to identify complex NFL defensive schemes? For a QB the move up to the NFL is a mega move and you have no idea how they will adapt.

I was in on Murphy but since reports came out that he might be as dumb as box of rocks I revised that. Talent alone can bring you only so far in the NFL. The rest is all work ethic, ability to learn and comprehend.

All of these points are valid.

Tua already has a small injury history in one year at starting, so it's possible he may get hurt again no question. But Tua isn't the only one I'd see Miami taking.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I hope like hell Tua doesn't end up in the Dolphins organization. So at least we all agree on that.

 

[Digital]

That plan is a a fiction of your imagination. Planning for a top pick is a very poor strategy and is bound to fail. Too many things go wrong. "Tanking" for that magical top pick QB is the buzzword for fans who have no idea how the NFL works and how to properly build a team. It is a simplifying method trying to understand a complex structure.

Two things to note.

1. It's not my plan … and therefore it's not a figment of my imagination (I realize you meant figment, typos happen to me a lot too). I'm just buying into the plan … not making it up.
2. "Bound to fail" is not correct. The plan was followed by several teams in the Suck for Luck sweepstakes, and it did in fact go wrong for the Dolphins as the coaching staff tried to win, and Matt Moore engineered a winning patch of 6 of our final 9 games. But, it did succeed for the Indianapolis Colts, who executed it flawlessly.

Tanking is a thing, not just in the NFL either. Ask the Philadelphia 76'ers … they've mastered it. Drafting well is another thing entirely.

I'm all for building a team the right way. Since Don Shula … we haven't done it. Many of us have noticed a missing ingredient for success since Dan Marino retired. Building the team through the draft is THE reason for tanking. To get better draft picks, to re-set the team to build through the draft.

Tanking may or may not happen, I have no control over that. But to suggest that tanking is a figment of my imagination would be to ignore the rhetoric and signals the team is clearly sending. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, you may not like how I feel about it … but let's not be an ostrich and ignore the fact that the team is sending out those signals.

 

[phins_4_ever]

I hope like hell Tua doesn't end up in the Dolphins organization. So at least we all agree on that.

 

[phins_4_ever]

Two things to note.

1. It's not my plan … and therefore it's not a figment of my imagination (I realize you meant figment, typos happen to me a lot too). I'm just buying into the plan … not making it up.
2. "Bound to fail" is not correct. The plan was followed by several teams in the Suck for Luck sweepstakes, and it did in fact go wrong for the Dolphins as the coaching staff tried to win, and Matt Moore engineered a winning patch of 6 of our final 9 games. But, it did succeed for the Indianapolis Colts, who executed it flawlessly.

Tanking is a thing, not just in the NFL either. Ask the Philadelphia 76'ers … they've mastered it. Drafting well is another thing entirely.

I'm all for building a team the right way. Since Don Shula … we haven't done it. Many of us have noticed a missing ingredient for success since Dan Marino retired. Building the team through the draft is THE reason for tanking. To get better draft picks, to re-set the team to build through the draft.

Tanking may or may not happen, I have no control over that. But to suggest that tanking is a figment of my imagination would be to ignore the rhetoric and signals the team is clearly sending. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, you may not like how I feel about it … but let's not be an ostrich and ignore the fact that the team is sending out those signals.

a) I am not getting into this "suck for Luck" again. Facts and evidence completely destroy any notion of an intentional "tank" job.
b) Sorry but sometimes the auto correct munchkin gets me.
c) I don't know about the 76ers or any other team. I don't follow Baseball or Basketball. But just the fact that an NBA team only has 13 players and plays some 82 games it probably is much easier to throw a game or two than on a 54-man roster with a 16 game season.
d) The Dolphins have no such plan as "tanking". No new GM or new coach is willing to sacrifice their future career by purposely tanking.
Building or rebuilding is not tanking and never will be.

2019 NFL Scouting Combine: Dolphins’ GM Chris Grier: We’re not tanking!

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sport...bine-dolphins-gm-chris-grier-were-not-tanking

 

[Cheetah]

I don't know what bias you have, but I'm beginning to lean a certain way. Usually anytime the first thing someone does is accuse you of being biased - they're being biased. My post had no bias. Only facts. I know what happened and why.

I already said Tua played fine. He did. You don't think so....oh well. One of us is wrong.

What quarterback in the country hasn't had a 2 INT game? Furthermore, Tua's first INT that resulted in a pick six wasn't on him. But that requires knowing what's going on from the playcall, down to execution, and breaking down film.

You didn't see any pressure on Lawrence. Not Bama pressure. We rushed 3 and dropped 8 all night. Rarely ever even sent a 4th rusher. Inexcusable game plan by a good young coach (Lupoi) who simply wasn't ready for the task at hand. That's why he's gone. Don't agree with me or it - take it up with Saban.

I'd suggest you take a look at the receivers Haskins had at Ohio St. and what they all just did at the combine. Along with Mike Weber. J.K. Dobbins is even better than Weber. All of Haskins top receivers were Seniors. Tua's were freshman and sophomores.

I think Haskins is a terrific quarterback. But he ain't Tua. That's just a fact. And it wouldn't change if Tua played at Ohio St. and Haskins at Alabama. It'd still be a fact.

I have no bias as I am not a fan of either team but you most certainly do. You didn't even address my points. You talk about Haskins receivers but neglect to mention that Bama has a top 20 pick on their OL, the best RB in the draft, a stud at TE, oh and their receivers aren't chopped liver. Haskins has a big frame where Tua has shown to get nagging leg injuries. Leadership? I do question it because he and his team got their asses handed to them but gave no respect to Clemson.

Last but not least if you don't think Haskins spins it in that loaded offense then there is nothing else to say. He would be like a kid in a candy store. Again I highly respect you and LOVE the stuff you bring but respectfully disagree on this point.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I have no bias as I am not a fan of either team but you most certainly do. You didn't even address my points. You talk about Haskins receivers but neglect to mention that Bama has a top 20 pick on their OL, the best RB in the draft, a stud at TE, oh and their receivers aren't chopped liver. Haskins has a big frame where Tua has shown to get nagging leg injuries. Leadership? I do question it because he and his team got their asses handed to them but gave no respect to Clemson.

Last but not least if you don't think Haskins spins it in that loaded offense then there is nothing else to say. He would be like a kid in a candy store. Again I highly respect you and LOVE the stuff you bring but respectfully disagree on this point.

Disagreeing is fine. We disagree. However, your accusation was that my view was biased. It's not. I'd still believe Tua was the better quarterback if he played at Ohio St.

LargoFin definitely would.

Nowhere did Tua or his team give no respect to Clemson. They know that the only thing they can control is what they do, and what they didn't do against Clemson. That's how they look at it in order to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's all they can control. Anybody expecting Alabama's players to just bow down to Clemson is terribly mistaken. But there was never any disrespect given towards Clemson.

Alabama played their worst game of the season. Clemson played their best game in 90 years. Both teams know it.

You're being biased.

 

[BennySwella]

Right ****ing now. Today. All of these people clamoring for a QB in the future are delusional thinking we can control our draft position.

These people want Miami to play as badly as possible to get better? Stupid ****ing move. Tanking has never worked for any team in sports.

 

[LargoFin]

I'd still believe Tua was the better quarterback if he played at Ohio St.

LargoFin definitely would.

No, because I'm not biased. I do not care how Tua played in the NCG. Tua is 14-1, he is a winner and he is a competitor.

The thing is Tua is 6002 or listed 6-1, that's not prototypical, he is not Luck, and he is not Haskins.
Plus, at that frame, Tua is a low volume passer, 345 in 15 games, that's 368 adjusted for 16 games. That's too low. There will be an adjustment process to increase his load for the NFL. We do not know how that will work.

He is not an exceptional athlete, runner, to have something to fall back on. And his passing numbers are pitch and catch, whacky, and it will not be like that in the NFL.

And he has not even played his last season so we can know what we are dealing with.

There are serious risks with Tua based on the last season, even tho he has a gun, scores a ton, and is great competitor.

You do not suck the season for any player, let alone one with serious risks.

if you don't think Haskins spins it in that loaded offense then there is nothing else to say. He would be like a kid in a candy store. Again I highly respect you and LOVE the stuff you bring but respectfully disagree on this point.