Quarterbacks In The Draft: Who Are The Candidates? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Quarterbacks In The Draft: Who Are The Candidates?

Daniel Jones will be a good NFL QB and in the mold of Phillip Rivers who I think anyone here would have loved to have since he entered the league. The thing about Jones stats is that he plays for Duke who is not a traditional FB power even by ACC standards. In fact, Coach Cutt has only recently turned the program around from being a 2-3 win per season team to going to minor Bowl games each year. The fact that Duke does not get the 5* recruits to surround Jones with weapons makes it impossible for him to pad the stat line with the exception of just a few games each year. The Miami game was mentioned and JUST the fact Duke beat them mainly off the strength of Jones scrambling ability should open some eyes about his abilities. I will also say I think he could be a very good field general for a team like Miami who has no direction when the heat is on. Id take my chances with him but I doubt very seriously he leaves Duke early and even more doubts Miami brass would be smart enough to draft him.
 
I'll admit I don't have a lot of knowledge about Jones, but I have heard good things from people I respect. I like the fact that he learned under David Cuttcliffe, who I think is a very good coach.

Daniel Jones will be a good NFL QB and in the mold of Phillip Rivers who I think anyone here would have loved to have since he entered the league. The thing about Jones stats is that he plays for Duke who is not a traditional FB power even by ACC standards. In fact, Coach Cutt has only recently turned the program around from being a 2-3 win per season team to going to minor Bowl games each year. The fact that Duke does not get the 5* recruits to surround Jones with weapons makes it impossible for him to pad the stat line with the exception of just a few games each year. The Miami game was mentioned and JUST the fact Duke beat them mainly off the strength of Jones scrambling ability should open some eyes about his abilities. I will also say I think he could be a very good field general for a team like Miami who has no direction when the heat is on. Id take my chances with him but I doubt very seriously he leaves Duke early and even more doubts Miami brass would be smart enough to draft him.


Looking ahead is good, but, at times, we can get carried away with ourselves, too, and believe in a player more than we should just because we want them to succeed as a quarterback. This often causes the names and fan groups for college quarterbacks to be numerous as the season goes on.

When such actions take place, new names come to the forefront as players who have the chance to change franchises. One of the latest names entering the quarterback conversation is Duke’s redshirt junior Daniel Jones. Jones stands like a giant at 6-foot-5, and his size even comes second to his toughness. Jones currently has 615 passing yards with five touchdowns and one interception (that wasn’t his fault) through three games. Jones missed two games due to a fractured clavicle in his non-throwing shoulder this year, but is already back and playing after surgery. In fact, he was back after just nine days post-surgery. Here’s what his head coach said right as Jones was coming back from surgery.

“Daniel is actually getting some good practice time right now,” Duke head coach David Cutcliffe said. “He’s a tough young man, so he has actually put on pads and gone through practice. He’s no-contact, obviously, but he’s gaining his confidence back. He’s moving well. He’s running well. So it’s hard to say. We’re still indefinite, but our medical people are absolutely amazed at what he’s doing.

Jones has been getting a lot of love national. He even debuted at No. 20 overall on NFL Network’s Big Board from Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

If my math is correct, No. 20 overall would mean first round talent. So, is it true? Let’s take Daniel Jones through the 5-Play Prospect film room to find out:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/10/10/5-play-prospect-duke-qb-daniel-jones/
 
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Photo by Charles York | The Chronicle
Daniel Jones has impressed with his ability to dominate both in the air and on the ground.

Don't be surprised when Daniel Jones becomes a 1st-round pick this spring
By Ben Feder | 12/04/2018
Duke has only had one quarterback drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft. Ever.

And that was in the supplemental draft.


This year though, the Blue Devils will get a second.

Daniel Jones certainly represents their best chance since Dave Brown, who was the first-round bust selected by the New York Giants in the 1992 NFL Supplemental Draft. Jones has blossomed in his third year under center, drawing comparisons to two quarterbacks by virtue of his head coach David Cutcliffe—Eli and Peyton Manning.

But Cutcliffe is not the only reason why I and a bunch of NFL scouts believe Jones will be drafted in the first round of the 2019 NFL Draft, assuming he spurns his last year of college eligibility to enter the draft pool.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/artic...es-a-first-round-pick-nfl-draft-duke-football
 
Murray(if he chooses to come to the NFL instead of the MLB) or Haskins in 1st round and Stick, or Ta’amu in the later rounds
 
Daniel Jones will be a good NFL QB and in the mold of Phillip Rivers who I think anyone here would have loved to have since he entered the league.

I just don’t see it. Rivers was special from the moment he stepped on the field at N.C. State. Jones struggles to complete 60% of his passes. That’s alarming to me in this day and age where college football is wide open & the refs call DPI every time a DB breathes on a receiver. I’ve seen him play live a number of times & nothing screams future NFL starter to me.
 
I just don’t see it. Rivers was special from the moment he stepped on the field at N.C. State. Jones struggles to complete 60% of his passes. That’s alarming to me in this day and age where college football is wide open & the refs call DPI every time a DB breathes on a receiver. I’ve seen him play live a number of times & nothing screams future NFL starter to me.
Rivers played for NCSU where recruiters have much more wiggle room for talent. My comparison to Rivers is largely in his physical size and potential based off his production at Duke doing more with less (60% completion rate is great when considering who he had to catch it) I respect your opinion though and your as likely to be right as I am at this point. I'm just answering the question posted by op.
 
there is a lot of talk now of murray actually choosing football now. I would like him but being 5'11 is worrisome. but the kid has it all

Surely we can put the height issue to rest now? How many shorter QBs need to succeed in the NFL before we do?
 
I've written pretty much the same in multiple threads now:

First Round be aggressive go after:

1. Murray (at this point, I would be shocked if he chose baseball, think he's just waiting on those evaluations before he'll tell the world he's declaring) - This kid is absolutely legit he is a franchise changer, sell the farm for him. He was the best QB in college football this year, crazy stats both with arm and legs, bettered Mayfield's numbers from last year. His size will be a concern, but if you watch him play you'll see it really shouldn't.

2. Haskins - Has everything you look for in a QB, early in the year he announced that he was declaring, most folks including me thought that was too early, and that he needed another year. Suffered a bad loss at Purdue, but then the Maryland game happened, he put his team on his back and accounted for 6 tds !, The next game was against the #3 Wolverines, one of the best D's in college football, he destroyed them with 7tds, then the Big 10 Champ games rolls along, another 6 TDs. He's broken all QB records in the big 10. The kid is ready, hope he sticks with his original decision to declare, there is doubt now. But I would again be ultra aggressive to get him.

3. Herbert - Not as high on him as the other two, but he's going to be a star, has everything you want but I think he'll stay in school, which is absolutely the wrong thing for him to do.

4. Lock - He's got first round talent, some knocks on him, others aren't very high, notably Slimm who "doesn't trust him", there are questions on his focus, he may not hate to lose enough. But I watched a lot of him down the stretch last year and he was hugely impressive, he's very mobile and has a huge arm. Threw for more yards and TDs in the SEC than Manning. I would take him if he is there at our spot in the first.

5. Grier - Solid 2nd round pick, he's probably not got the arm that you look for but he competes and his stats were off the charts last year.

6. Minshew - Watched a lot of him all year, he came from the same program as Falk (air raid Washington State), he tore it up and outplayed Herbert in their match up with Oregon. Great character, was going into coaching but changed paths to graduate transfer and give starting a final chance at Wazzu. His stats for the year are crazy and the kid can play but he is very much a one year wonder, maybe a product of the air raid scheme there and had a awful outing in his last game against Washington (in terrible weather) that preventing them going to the Pac12 champ game. I would take a flyer though on him in later rounds.

the Rest. Stick, Finley, Jones, Thorsen - Haven't seen enough of any them to make a judgement.

I wuld suggest everyone pays close attention to the bowl season games, there are some great match ups and this is a great chance to see some of these kids compete.
 
As usual, the evaluation of these quarterbacks for me is years in the making, and is still yet incomplete, as we have some important steps in the process to finish. Not least of which is actually for the player to come out of school, as it is rumored for example that Justin Herbert still leans against coming out of Oregon.

So I try and stick with the Seniors.

Senior Group

Easton Stick (North Dakota State): Ridiculous number of pluses, including arm talent, speed/agility, character profile, pro style experience. His only significant minuses are size (between 6'1" and 6'2" probably, maybe 200 lbs), level of competition (FCS), and role in the offense (run-first team; doesn't often have to carry them himself with his arm). Needs work on deep ball, IMO. He's 48-3, and a champion. And unlike other FCS guys who do that much winning, he has a pro arm, and compelling athleticism even for a pro. If the feet belie the mind, which was the case for another FCS prospect in Jimmy Garoppolo, then Easton Stick should have no trouble processing the field, and has more pure talent than Jimmy did.

Drew Lock (Missouri): Great size, really great arm talent, good athlete. Can run RPOs with him all day. Seems to me that he struggles with the totality of everything you need to remember or process in order to play the position. Mistakes rotate between forgetting to put touch on a pass, forgetting to look-off, making a poor decision, etc. His feet struggle to activate, at times. Bit of Jay Cutler to him, the perception of that nonchalant attitude, trying to pay for everything with his arm.

Drew Anderson (Murray State): Pro level arm strength. Unusual gift for throwing with touch over the middle, getting the ball up and over defenders and then back down inside the zones, then turning around and throwing heaters to the outside. Great passer, natural quarterback with a wide array of competence and awareness in all sorts of areas of a passer's game, which I think is where a Drew Lock struggles, for example. Solid as hell, built for the pro game. Surprising good runner; think it even surprised him. Elevated two offenses to levels they'd not seen before. Unlucky career.

Others: There are a lot of players in this Seniors group that unfortunately do not throw with NFL velocity. The only ones aside from the above that do are Jordan Ta'amu (Ole Miss), Nick Fitzgerald (Mississippi State), and Taryn Christion (South Dakota State). Oddly all three of them are very athletic and can run a bit, which makes the pro tangibles even more tantalizing. But there just aren't enough pro traits in any single one of them, when you really break down their games. Will Grier (West Virginia) is among those that attempt to be dynamic football players and play makers, but do not have the arm to cash the checks signed by their mentality. Grier rarely throws an NFL tight window pass, and doesn't generate NFL velocity even on the occasions he's asked to do so. That's in addition to having an erratic personality profile and history, frenetic playing style where he plays fast and loose with mechanics and decision-making, etc. Gardner Minshew (Washington State) is another, everything you could ask a weak-armed quarterback to be. I think his future lies in coaching the game, rather than playing it. Brett Rypien (Boise State) is interesting as he's highly productive and sort of a "little things" guy, and his arm talent/velocity can often get right up on the cusp of pro level (though still not quite there). Between the lack of ideal arm and lack of ideal size, tough for me to get on board and put him among the targets. Ryan Finley (North Carolina State) is probably the best prospect among those that do not regularly show NFL velocity, due to how well-rounded he is, with pro size. You might make a backup out of him. Of course, you could say the same of Clayton Thorson (Northwestern), who has done a fantastic job learning to operate an offense with pro traits while moving his feet (running for his life). The thing that would make me reluctant to put him on top of my "backup" group of prospects is the fact he's so inconsistent. I mean, he can go out there and just stink up the stadium sometimes. Taylor Cornelius (Oklahoma State) could give Finley a run for his money as the best among the players that do not throw sport NFL tangibles. I really like his FEET in particular, which is huge for me. He's got the size to hit slants and use the shallow middle, which will be good weapons for him. He doesn't throw with pro velocity. I have really liked Justice Hansen (Arkansas State) in the past and still wonder about him. He was highly recruited. He's huge, pro style passer all the way in all his throwing traits, tangibles. He doesn't often throw with NFL velocity but I can't escape the feeling that he could, and he's just dialing it down to make things catchable for his receivers. I just have a tough time trusting him, knowing the volatility of his background and what he's been through, how he's gotten from being a golden boy to ending up barely catching on at Arkansas State. The rest of these seniors, I'm just not sure they have enough talent to even be worth talking about.


Now, among the underclass (eligible), I see a few guys that strike my fancy. They are:

Underclass Eligible Group

Kyler Murray (Oklahoma): This might be the only quarterback in the class that I would move heaven and earth to get hold of. His feet are amazing. His arm talent is amazing. His accuracy is amazing. His speed, agility, and athleticism are amazing. Anyone comparing him to Pat White either didn't study Pat White, hasn't studied Kyler Murray, is actively on drugs, or attempting to make some exceedingly pedantic point about some bureaucratic aspect of the evaluation that doesn't matter a lick on Sunday. Murray stands in the pocket, uses it, works it, and waits for the right throw. But he can also sense pressure, bail when he needs to, and then somehow be even more dangerous. I get asked all the time, are you concerned about the height? Of course I am. Don't be daft. If it weren't for the height, he might be the most tantalizing QB prospect I've ever seen. You don't make your bones by acknowledging or ignoring the obvious. You make it by acknowledging the problems, and properly contextualizing them. If Russell Wilson can play HALL OF FAME level football at the QB position despite being 5105, then it's insane to me for anyone to object to a Kyler Murray because he's maybe an inch (if that) shorter. Will Kyler Murray be able to do everything a normal QB prospect can do? Absolutely not. Like Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Baker Mayfield, and essentially every QB under 6'2", he's not going to be able to throw too many quick slants, or use the shallow middle. Can Kyler Murray do things many of those guys can't? You're damn skippy. Taking any quarterback in the 2019 draft above Kyler Murray will probably be a mistake. As Slimm from the Draft Forum recently iterated, you won't be taking a better quarterback, just a taller one.

Justin Herbert (Oregon): This to me is your more classic pro prospect quarterback that has all the tools you could possibly ask for. He's really a wonderful, marvelous specimen for the position. Tall, big, athletic, plays the game the way you want it to be played. He doesn't have all the brain farts you see in a Drew Lock. His arm strength and velocity essentially SETS the curve. He goes to the NFL and I don't know which quarterback in the pros you could pick out and say, oh yeah that guy definitely has a better arm. Good kid, good background, good head on his shoulders. Is there something missing, at times? Maybe. But I've seen other QBs start out here and end up really, really good at the NFL level, like a Ben Roethlisberger.

Jordan Love (Utah State): This is probably the high level talent you haven't heard of yet. He's got elite arm talent, highly productive AND a winner at Utah State. He got both his head coach and offensive coordinator promotions, as they get to go coach at Texas Tech instead of Utah State. He took a huge, monstrous step forward this year, and he's only a redshirt sophomore. Known for having an even-keel during the games, for being able to throw every inch of the field with his arm talent, and for being a good physical athlete. When he's the runner, he protects himself from contact extraordinarily well, and yet he also blocks his ass off when the play needs it. He reminds me a lot of Patrick Mahomes. The question you'd have about him is that he was in an offense that revolved around two superior backs in Darwin Thompson and Gerald Bright, and you've got to wonder what's going to happen now that he's losing at least one of those, in addition to his top three receiving targets (all seniors), his offensive minded head coach, and his offensive coordinator. But this is where great players can step up.

Dwayne Haskins (Ohio State): Some will object to me putting him this far "down" the board. He's a good talent. I honestly go back and forth a little bit between he and Easton Stick of North Dakota State. Ultimately what you have to say about Dwayne Haskins is that he's gone to the highest level of football in the college landscape, and handled it. He throws with trust and anticipation, consistently reading the defense, executing the throws with a consistency that I would honestly compare to Baker Mayfield a year ago. He's shown the ability to improvise, though not necessarily the consistent ability to improvise. The ball comes out delightfully quick with Haskins, and there are offensive coordinators at the NFL level who will be licking their chops at that aspect of his game in particular. He's a winner, showing in certain games that he can really gut it out himself when things aren't going right. So why don't I have him higher? First off, I am sorry to say, the arm talent is really quite borderline for an NFL starter. He can get away with it. But only just so, unless he really starts finding velocity reserves that he's not shown (at which point you start to wonder if he can maintain the accuracy and consistent execution). The book on him is clearly written in that the NFL will know to blitz the hell out of him, play physical man coverage, make him move his feet, force him to make plays while getting away from textbook timing, angles, and anticipation, etc. The mere fact that this is already so obvious will have to be a bit concerning. But if he stays disciplined with his feet (which has been a problem at times), then he can overcome, especially within the bounds of operating a strong offense. I suspect you could make a pretty marvelous system quarterback out of him, at the least.

Others: I've tried, but I just can't bring myself to like Daniel Jones (Duke). In the end I do wonder if the Cutcliffe/Manning connection isn't sort of elevating him above where his talent would otherwise take him. He can run and gain yards. He's got good pocket movement and he's been coached well, obviously. But I see him breaking down under pressure because the bottom line is, he doesn't have an arm. He doesn't have much intrinsic talent for the position. He's not a play maker. Jarrett Stidham (Auburn) is like the polar opposite in that he will continue to get talked about near the top of the draft primarily because he's among the few with valid pro arm strength. But I haven't been impressed by his game since he transferred into Auburn. Can he handle pressure? Finally he's been mentioned, but I can't bring myself to like Tyree Jackson (Buffalo). He's relevant because I know there's been an agent working on him all year trying to get him to come out early. I doubt he's going to receive a good grade from the College Advisory Committee, so we'll see. He's got so many tools at 6'6" and 245 lbs, with perhaps speed in the 4.7's and howitzer arm, and I really do like his coaching/program at Buffalo. Great kid, too. But his feet are like Frankenstein. No connection with what his eyes are reading, or even what throw he's attempting. With feet like that it's going to be hard for him to stay accurate and that's been one problem of his. A deeper problem is I generally feel the feet belie the mind, and if he's got slow and clunky feet then I think he's probably slow and clunky in the way he reads the field. Believe it or not, his backup quarterback in 2017 Drew Anderson was better. The wrong player transferred.
 
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I'll take a more in-depth look at them later, but I have a similar take to @Awsi Dooger on most of these guys. I'm not really impressed at the group as a whole. The only one I see with talent is Justin Herbert of Oregon, and IMHO, he's not ready for the NFL. If he were smart, he'd go back to school for another year, but because this is a weak QB class, he'll come out this year and be a top 10 pick, likely top 5. We're not going to have a shot at him, and frankly, he's not going to be the best player available for whomever drafts him. His upside reminds me of Matt Stafford, but he's not even as ready as Stafford was coming into the league.

This draft is deep on DL, which is a real position of need for us, especially DE. So for us to ignore the BPA, ignore need, and pile together the resources needed to move up and then reach for a mediocre QB prospect … does not sit well with me. This is not the year to get a QB.
 
I think thats where you have to be careful in this draft. Do i see amazing potential in Haskins and herbert? I sure do. But its a whole lot more projection than i am comfortable with when taking a qb high.

I just dont think haskins/herbert are in the "move heaven and earth" category for me YET to quote CK. I want to see haskins against washington - the thing w/ haskins is that at his PEAK this year, hes unbelievable. AND he did it against michigan at times, and against northwestern, two tough defenses.

The stats are incredible against michigan, but that game was largely simple drags and simple isolation concepts where OSU receivers just showed how much faster they were than Michigan. Haskins can put it right on the money though

Just too much projection for me to take a comfortable stance at the moment. Although i still dont buy much into haskins having borderline arm strength. I just dont

I love kyler murray, although someone please correct me if im wrong, but i believe i saw a snippet this season reading that his team mates didnt love him. Please correct me if thats false, maybe im confusing that w/ something else
 
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