Quarterbacks In The Draft

[Third Eye]

Elite or consistent high level NFL quarterbacks don't grow on trees. It's one of the hardest things to do in sport.

I only see four in the college landscape that I see getting to that level. It just so happens that one of them COULD be available in this draft. Two of them could be available next year, and the last won't be available until 2021 at the earliest. They are Kyler Murray, Tua Tagovailoa and Jake Fromm, and Trevor Lawrence.

I do see two more guys with the ceilings to get there, if they keep adding pieces to their games. They are Justin Herbert and Jordan Love. Would it surprise me greatly if either continued growing and became another Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, or even Patrick Mahomes, in the right situation? Nope.

The other guys in this 2019 class, the top guys being Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, and Easton Stick, they're worth taking a chance on. They might pan out. But I would honestly be legit shocked if any single one of the three turns out to be better than any single one of the four I mentioned above. The ceiling just isn't there. I could see one or two of them ending up better than Herbert or Love, if the latter two do not grow.

But even with Dwayne Haskins, there's just too much ordinary there, as opposed to extraordinary. There's too much, "qualified," as opposed to "over-qualified". He doesn't look like an exception to the rule. He looks like the rule.

At the end of the Washington game tonight, he was a deer in headlights during the 4th quarter while Jake Browning brought his team back from the brink and came on like a freight train. Haskins went 3 of 7 for 13 yards with a -6 yard sack. And the yardage came on a simple swing pass that went 14 yards due to good blocking and the defense losing contain.

Compare that with Tua Tagovailoa against Oklahoma. When Kyler Murray scored that touchdown to bring it to 31-20, and looked like he was really starting to get hot, do you know what Tua did? He went 8 of 8 for 88 yards and 2 TDs with a 4 yard run for the rest of the game. He heated up and put the Sooners to away, despite Murray becoming unstoppable.

Now tell me you really expect Dwayne Haskins to ever be in company with Tua Tagovailoa.

I have my doubts that Kyler Murray is any sort of lock at the NFL level. His size will be an issue IMHO.

Fromm BTW has tiny hands. It’s just a factor to consider because we’ve seen this before. .

 

[lotion]

Sam Ehlinger looks legit tough player paired with a good running game and strong defense. Will he be available in this draft or the next?

 

[Martel13]

Was hoping for more out of Fromm tonight he’s missed some open throws. None of these dudes look to be the prospect that Trevor Lawrence is

 

[Cheetah]

Was hoping for more out of Fromm tonight he’s missed some open throws. Noneof these dudes look to be the prospect that Trevor Lawrence is

I really like Haskins, the Washington D was pretty formidable coming in. The issue with Lawrence is he is 2021? We cannot wait on that possibility. From what I have seen I would gauge QB's in each draft yr and see what it takes to get them. See what we can do for Haskins this yr. If not we should suck enough to see about Tua or Fromm. Outside of those guys I am not seeing a Franchise QB.
Murray? Too small, Locke? Is bad against good comp, Herbert? Besides size I see nothing that makes me think he can be the guy.

 

[Martel13]

I really like Haskins, the Washington D was pretty formidable coming in. The issue with Lawrence is he is 2021? We cannot wait on that possibility. From what I have seen I would gauge QB's in each draft yr and see what it takes to get them. See what we can do for Haskins this yr. If not we should suck enough to see about Tua or Fromm. Outside of those guys I am not seeing a Franchise QB.
Murray? Too small, Locke? Is bad against good comp, Herbert? Besides size I see nothing that makes me think he can be the guy.

Yeah Lawrence is 2021. He looks to be the only “can’t miss” guy in FBS right now ala Elway, Manning, Luck etc Gonna take some good scouting and a little luck to land our guy in the coming drafts.

 

[ckparrothead]

All the knocks on Haskins are valid, but I think a lot of people are also forgetting this is his only year playing college football.

Is he 100% blossomed and ready for the NFL? No. But he's pretty much guaranteed to be the first guy off the board and he's making the smart financial decision to do so

Now of course it's easier to project Fromm w/ 3 years experience, tua w/ 3, and Lawrence w/ 3 to be better in the NFL compared to Haskins right now who has 1. It's not hard to do that

That's what makes Haskins projection so tough. He has the tools and he has flashed briliance at times this year, but he is nowhere near done growing.

Personally, I think it's a little short-sighted to assume Haskins won't grow into more of a mature player than he is right now.

But again, all the knocks on him are valid to this point

Perhaps.

But I smell trait limitations on Dwayne Haskins with respect to his pocket movement, mobility, scrambling, athleticism, and arm strength.

He's a lot like two guys that I liked quite a bit coming out of college, which explains why I was onto Haskins so quickly. But those two guys didn't pan out, which also sort of shows you why I'm ultimately wary of Haskins.

He's a lot like Brandon Weeden and Byron Leftwich. All three are shotgun guys that rock back and pick defenses apart from inside the pocket. All three broke down under pressure, blitz, etc. They all struggle to move their feet, reset, manipulate passing lanes, deal with trash at their feet or in the pocket. All three were VERY accurate passers, VERY consistent executors.

Haskins doesn't have the slow release of a Byron Leftwich but he also doesn't have Leftwich's arm strength or velocity. Those sort of cancel one another out. A slow release makes a strong armed guy come off like a weaker armed guy, as far as the effect on a defense is concerned. It blunts the edge that he would normally enjoy because of his arm talent. Brandon Weeden had lots of velocity and arm strength, and he also had a quick release, so he was ahead of the game relative to both guys. But Weeden didn't get the football out as quickly as Haskins, either.

That's actually Dwayne Haskins's saving grace, if he's going to have one, relative to those two who became backups in the NFL. Haskins gets the football out quickly. Is it enough? Maybe enough to make him an Andy Dalton. But that's honestly the most successful guy I can think of that had a similar all-around set of tools in the tool belt.

 

[ChambersWI]

Simon talked about it on twitter, the one thing that worries you about Haskins is he struggles badly with pressure. How much of that is inexperience and how much is him? That's the debate. I've seen good pocket awareness and good eye manipulation all season. But when it comes to handily pressure Haskins varies from awful to just okay right now.

Now that being said Tannehill used to be great in dealing with the blitz and that changed over time

 

[LargoFin]

Eight of the playoff teams are top 10 in time of possession. The other four are sort of high powered offenses, Rams are 11th, Texans are 15th, Colts 18th, and the Chiefs are abysmal 27th, which probably influences their defensive struggles.

Scoring is obviously very important, but the baseline is keeping the ball rolling, and time of possession. Lock, Murray, and Haskins can keep the ball rolling, and hit a big shot.

I prefer Murray because in addition to passing he can run. Ran for 1000 yards on 140 carries. There are strong reasons to move up and go for a QB this year.

 

[A1.]

Perhaps.

But I smell trait limitations on Dwayne Haskins with respect to his pocket movement, mobility, scrambling, athleticism, and arm strength.

He's a lot like two guys that I liked quite a bit coming out of college, which explains why I was onto Haskins so quickly. But those two guys didn't pan out, which also sort of shows you why I'm ultimately wary of Haskins.

He's a lot like Brandon Weeden and Byron Leftwich. All three are shotgun guys that rock back and pick defenses apart from inside the pocket. All three broke down under pressure, blitz, etc. They all struggle to move their feet, reset, manipulate passing lanes, deal with trash at their feet or in the pocket. All three were VERY accurate passers, VERY consistent executors.

Haskins doesn't have the slow release of a Byron Leftwich but he also doesn't have Leftwich's arm strength or velocity. Those sort of cancel one another out. A slow release makes a strong armed guy come off like a weaker armed guy, as far as the effect on a defense is concerned. It blunts the edge that he would normally enjoy because of his arm talent. Brandon Weeden had lots of velocity and arm strength, and he also had a quick release, so he was ahead of the game relative to both guys. But Weeden didn't get the football out as quickly as Haskins, either.

That's actually Dwayne Haskins's saving grace, if he's going to have one, relative to those two who became backups in the NFL. Haskins gets the football out quickly. Is it enough? Maybe enough to make him an Andy Dalton. But that's honestly the most successful guy I can think of that had a similar all-around set of tools in the tool belt.

Pocket movement, scrambling and mobility is what gets me caught up on Haskins as well. He has inconsistently flashed "brilliance" in those areas as I mentioned earlier, but then again most guys do flash in their weak areas at times. It's a consistent product that matters, and consistently beating pressure is one thing I'll agree I'm worried about w/ haskins. Bc we just haven't seen it.

I struggle w/ his projection but I think he's a guy I'd take a chance on if I were in the position to do so.

That's the first time I've seen an Andy Dalton comparison to him, and I kinda like it.

Between his strengths, weaknesses, incredible stats, and inconsistently at times he's a wild card that you wish you could get another season for evaluation. Looks like we're only gonna get this one though

 

[A1.]

Simon talked about it on twitter, the one thing that worries you about Haskins is he struggles badly with pressure. How much of that is inexperience and how much is him? That's the debate. I've seen good pocket awareness and good eye manipulation all season. But when it comes to handily pressure Haskins varies from awful to just okay right now.

Now that being said Tannehill used to be great in dealing with the blitz and that changed over time

Yup and that's why you'd love to see him get another season to grow. As incredible as his stats are he's got Paris Campbell and KJ hill that have provided plenty of RAC on simple routes bc they are just next level fast compared to majority of their competition

Ball placement anywhere on the field though isn't my issue w/ Haskins. I'm convinced he can make all the throws. But that's largely been in clean pocket this year

Like you said that's kinda the hang up on him. Does he have any more athlete left in him and how will he develop facing pressure

 

[ckparrothead]

Pocket movement, scrambling and mobility is what gets me caught up on Haskins as well. He has inconsistently flashed "brilliance" in those areas as I mentioned earlier, but then again most guys do flash in their weak areas at times. It's a consistent product that matters, and consistently beating pressure is one thing I'll agree I'm worried about w/ haskins. Bc we just haven't seen it.

I struggle w/ his projection but I think he's a guy I'd take a chance on if I were in the position to do so.

That's the first time I've seen an Andy Dalton comparison to him, and I kinda like it.

Between his strengths, weaknesses, incredible stats, and inconsistently at times he's a wild card that you wish you could get another season for evaluation. Looks like we're only gonna get this one though

See, that's where I disagree. Trust me I've been waiting for it all year. Slimm and I talked about him maybe two weeks into the college season, and I brought up the positive traits I see, and said that while he does not yet show that play making ability under pressure, the scrambling, ability to move around, reset and find the throw, I THINK it's there in him.

But we've gone all year and I haven't seen flashes of BRILLIANCE. I've seen flashes of COMPETENCE, and there's a difference. I find myself wanting and waiting for it to happen so bad that I think there would be a natural tendency, if I'm not disciplined, to lower the bar. When it does happen you get all excited and there's confirmation bias. I think I did that with Brandon Weeden quite a bit, and it bit me in the ass.

But, you know, maybe a Brandon Weeden that gets the ball out more quickly would be a fine NFL quarterback, even if he's not got Weeden's arm or height. I'm skeptical. But, maybe. He's young. He's getting better.

 

[A1.]

See, that's where I disagree. Trust me I've been waiting for it all year. Slimm and I talked about him maybe two weeks into the college season, and I brought up the positive traits I see, and said that while he does not yet show that play making ability under pressure, the scrambling, ability to move around, reset and find the throw, I THINK it's there in him.

But we've gone all year and I haven't seen flashes of BRILLIANCE. I've seen flashes of COMPETENCE, and there's a difference. I find myself wanting and waiting for it to happen so bad that I think there would be a natural tendency, if I'm not disciplined, to lower the bar. When it does happen you get all excited and there's confirmation bias. I think I did that with Brandon Weeden quite a bit, and it bit me in the ***.

But, you know, maybe a Brandon Weeden that gets the ball out more quickly would be a fine NFL quarterback, even if he's not got Weeden's arm or height. I'm skeptical. But, maybe. He's young. He's getting better.

That's a good way of putting it. Maybe "brilliance" is a over-shot bc I'm picking selective plays, and not selective stretches of play.

And yes I THINK he could have it too, which maybe I'm putting too much stock into the flashes I see

 

[ChyrenB]

Question: What would have happened in the draft of LAST APRIL, had not the Cardinals (like typical dirty birds) SWOOPED in and taken Josh Rosen right before we picked (which turned out to be Minkah Fitzpatrick). Would we have taken Rosen? I don't think so myself although I think we SHOULD HAVE. This year's College QB class does not come close to last year's.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Question: What would have happened in the draft of LAST APRIL, had not the Cardinals (like typical dirty birds) SWOOPED in and taken Josh Rosen right before we picked (which turned out to be Minkah Fitzpatrick). Would we have taken Rosen? I don't think so myself although I think we SHOULD HAVE. This year's College QB class does not come close to last year's.

I would have pulled the trigger on Rosen at #11 for a few reasons. He was the #5 overall player on my board (#2 Quarterback).

Furthermore, I knew then how weak this year's quarterback class was compared to last year's - and I never subscribed to Ryan Tannehill. However, it simply didn't unfold that way. Fitzpatrick was a really good pick there.

 

[Cheetah]

Question: What would have happened in the draft of LAST APRIL, had not the Cardinals (like typical dirty birds) SWOOPED in and taken Josh Rosen right before we picked (which turned out to be Minkah Fitzpatrick). Would we have taken Rosen? I don't think so myself although I think we SHOULD HAVE. This year's College QB class does not come close to last year's.

Good question. They towed the company line and said they would have taken Minkah anyways. Is Rosen better than say Haskins? I know I did not want Allen or Darnold. I liked Rosen and Mayfield. From what I remember Gase liked Mayfield and he was the QB in question that he wanted. We obviously did not or could not trade to get him. Just glad the Jets didn't.