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Question about contracts.

phinfan2003

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I remember when we signed K. Carter to that big contract, I as well as others wondered how we were able to get that done when we were pretty strapped cap-wise. Someone on this board noted that the contract is big but that most of the money was at the back end of the contract so that if we cut him in 2 or 3 years, we won't take a big cap hit. If that is the case, could we sign Law to a similar contract that is "seemingly" big but in essence is really a 1 or 2 year deal w/ little in the way of a cap hit?
 

Dolfan1000

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We could do it, but at this point, its probably not the best case scenario. Due to our current cap situation, we should probably do the opposite and front load the contract. There are two reasons: 1) Ty is not the same situation as Kevin Carter- he wants to cash in, understandably, and he is not dumb enough to accept a deal that is backloaded, knowing full well he will be cut before he reaches the real cash. 2) We are actually in decent enough cap space right now, so if we pay Ty the majority this season, we have him for one or two extra years at a very reasonable salary, leaving us the cap room in the future to make a splash in free agency. I mean, realistically, who cares about having 6 million extra dollars in cap space for this season- the offseason is practically over.
 

Schleprock

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The key to all contracts nowadays is the signing bonus. that is what you have to pay attention to. The salary is unimportant. Yes, that counts toward the cap, but if you decide on a whim to cut someone, that money can disappear regardless of how large. However, the signing bonus HAS to be paid to the player in full and remains on your cap. If you cut that person, then the remainder of the bonus you owe immediately jumps to your current years total salary cap.
 

Philter25

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phinfan2003 said:
I remember when we signed K. Carter to that big contract, I as well as others wondered how we were able to get that done when we were pretty strapped cap-wise. Someone on this board noted that the contract is big but that most of the money was at the back end of the contract so that if we cut him in 2 or 3 years, we won't take a big cap hit. If that is the case, could we sign Law to a similar contract that is "seemingly" big but in essence is really a 1 or 2 year deal w/ little in the way of a cap hit?
Of course we could do that... but think about it from Ty Law's perspective, why would he sign that? Players have agents for this exact purpose. Im sure Ty Law's agent, who wants to get paid, will not let him sign that type of contract.

Also, its all about signing bonus. The signing bonus is really what kills you with the cap hits. Players with backloaded contracts usually have varying base salaries. Let me think of a few you might know..... Reggie Howard has a backloaded contract. His salary goes up yearly. Chris Samuels, who was a player talked a lot about in the offseason because of his backloaded contract. He had base salaries in 2004 of 5 million, 2005 of 6 million, and a whopping 7.7 million in 2006. Hence a lot of people thought he might be cut because his contract can void his 2006 year and therefore be cut in 2005 so the skins wouldnt haveto pay him a 6 million base salary.

I will use Kevin Carter as an example because I know the figures of his contract off the top of my head:

If we cut/traded Carter after 2-3 years, we would still take a cap hit from his signing bonus. Carter's contract has very low base salaries for the first 3 years..... I think his signing bonus was around 5 million.

2005: 1 mil
2006: 1 mil
2007: 2.2 mil
2008: 3.2 mil
2009: 3.8 mil

Therefore, when I saw the parameters of his contract, to me its essentially a 3 year deal where we will take a slight cap hit from his signing bonus when we release/cut him in 2008 or therefore we will restructure him.

I hope this made sense to you. Also when it comes to Ty Law, if we wanted an overpaid CB on the downside of his career, we would have kept Pat Surtain, who doesnt have injury problems. Therefore I highly doubt unless Law takes a contract WELL under his value that we sign him. Its not entirely illogical to think he would do that because he does live here in Miami...... however because of how he has been in the past its logical to believe the man wants to get paid and he will go to the highest bidder, which will not be Miami.
 

phinfan2003

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Philter25 said:
Of course we could do that... but think about it from Ty Law's perspective, why would he sign that? Players have agents for this exact purpose. Im sure Ty Law's agent, who wants to get paid, will not let him sign that type of contract.

Also, its all about signing bonus. The signing bonus is really what kills you with the cap hits. Players with backloaded contracts usually have varying base salaries. Let me think of a few you might know..... Reggie Howard has a backloaded contract. His salary goes up yearly. Chris Samuels, who was a player talked a lot about in the offseason because of his backloaded contract. He had base salaries in 2004 of 5 million, 2005 of 6 million, and a whopping 7.7 million in 2006. Hence a lot of people thought he might be cut because his contract can void his 2006 year and therefore be cut in 2005 so the skins wouldnt haveto pay him a 6 million base salary.

I will use Kevin Carter as an example because I know the figures of his contract off the top of my head:

If we cut/traded Carter after 2-3 years, we would still take a cap hit from his signing bonus. Carter's contract has very low base salaries for the first 3 years..... I think his signing bonus was around 5 million.

2005: 1 mil
2006: 1 mil
2007: 2.2 mil
2008: 3.2 mil
2009: 3.8 mil

Therefore, when I saw the parameters of his contract, to me its essentially a 3 year deal where we will take a slight cap hit from his signing bonus when we release/cut him in 2008 or therefore we will restructure him.

I hope this made sense to you. Also when it comes to Ty Law, if we wanted an overpaid CB on the downside of his career, we would have kept Pat Surtain, who doesnt have injury problems. Therefore I highly doubt unless Law takes a contract WELL under his value that we sign him. Its not entirely illogical to think he would do that because he does live here in Miami...... however because of how he has been in the past its logical to believe the man wants to get paid and he will go to the highest bidder, which will not be Miami.

Thank you. I didn't think we'd be able to sign Law to a cap friendly contract but I was just wondering why anyone would sign a big contract (like Carter did) knowing he wouldn't see a bulk of that money.
 

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I agree that if Law and the Postons stick to the idea that he is worth "top five CB" money, then we need to forget about him. Maybe they can get the Lions to bite (no pun intended :tongue: ) on a mega-deal for Law.

Otherwise, what is Law going to do this year? Not play? At his age, he can't afford to take a year off -it certainly won't add to his value next year, just raise more question marks.

Now, part of getting a new contract is to satisfy the ego of a player. How much is it worth total? What was the signing bonus? Every player wants one equal or better than his peers.

What if you heard Miami signed Law to a three year $18 million dollar contract, with a $8 million signing bonus? Pretty good numbers right? About $6 mil/year?

Ah, but it's all in the details, right? What if that signing bonus is two split into this year and next, with the majority to come in 2006? What if the base salary is $5 million in the third year? Back-loaded then? Law could end up playing for a $500,000 base salary plus $3 million in signing bonus this year-and cut next year if Poole comes back strong.

Sure, the contract looks good at first glance, but would be in effect a one year deal. Why would he sign it? Because $3.5 million is BETTER than nothing. If Law has a good year, he can still find another team next year looking for a 2-3 year CB solution.

I think Law and the Postons are hoping to bluff some team into signing him to a big contract, but if not, they will take a "fake deal" like above and live with it. I'd throw in some clauses about injury if I was Miami too, like paying back a portion of the signing bonus if his foot gets injured again.

Patience is the key here, as there may be a surprise CB cut come June 1st.
 

Philter25

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Well said Deus. People are blinded by the original numbers they read on the title page of the newspapers. There were a ton of guys on here saying we overpaid for Carter when we signed him because they just read the bottom line. I chuckled and tried to explain it to them. Law will sign with someone and patience IS the key.
 

Eric-Honduras

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Deus Ex Dolphin said:
I agree that if Law and the Postons stick to the idea that he is worth "top five CB" money, then we need to forget about him. Maybe they can get the Lions to bite (no pun intended :tongue: ) on a mega-deal for Law.

Otherwise, what is Law going to do this year? Not play? At his age, he can't afford to take a year off -it certainly won't add to his value next year, just raise more question marks.

Now, part of getting a new contract is to satisfy the ego of a player. How much is it worth total? What was the signing bonus? Every player wants one equal or better than his peers.

What if you heard Miami signed Law to a three year $18 million dollar contract, with a $8 million signing bonus? Pretty good numbers right? About $6 mil/year?

Ah, but it's all in the details, right? What if that signing bonus is two split into this year and next, with the majority to come in 2006? What if the base salary is $5 million in the third year? Back-loaded then? Law could end up playing for a $500,000 base salary plus $3 million in signing bonus this year-and cut next year if Poole comes back strong.

Sure, the contract looks good at first glance, but would be in effect a one year deal. Why would he sign it? Because $3.5 million is BETTER than nothing. If Law has a good year, he can still find another team next year looking for a 2-3 year CB solution.

I think Law and the Postons are hoping to bluff some team into signing him to a big contract, but if not, they will take a "fake deal" like above and live with it. I'd throw in some clauses about injury if I was Miami too, like paying back a portion of the signing bonus if his foot gets injured again.

Patience is the key here, as there may be a surprise CB cut come June 1st.


First off , you can't split a signing bonus. If you give him a 8 million signing bonus for 3 years and you cut him the second year... you take over 5 million dollar cap hit on the second year. The cap hit accounts for the remaining years on the contract vs the original signing bonus.

The description your giving above is a roster bonus...
 

Ferretsquig

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phinfan2003 said:
Thank you. I didn't think we'd be able to sign Law to a cap friendly contract but I was just wondering why anyone would sign a big contract (like Carter did) knowing he wouldn't see a bulk of that money.

Its not like he was paid chump change. Hes getting 10 mil for 2 years. Thats as much as a 10 yr vet can hope for. And if he performs well he may luck out and force the phins to keep him around. I mean who ever though Fielder would last more than the first 2 yrs on that 5 yr deal he signed?
 

josephreese

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Ferretsquig said:
Its not like he was paid chump change. Hes getting 10 mil for 2 years. Thats as much as a 10 yr vet can hope for. And if he performs well he may luck out and force the phins to keep him around. I mean who ever though Fielder would last more than the first 2 yrs on that 5 yr deal he signed?

Good point regarding Fiedler, though if our DL position becomes a mess like our QB position, I'll be pretty sad. DL has been one of our biggest strengths in recent years.
 
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