Rating the Dolphins WR's | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rating the Dolphins WR's

J

jim1

Pro Bowler
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
5,826
Reaction score
307
For those of the opinion that something has to change with the Fins WR's, I think it's fair to say that there are quite a few devils in the details- the details of who in the current group stays and who goes, who do you draft and how high, and who do you look at in FA. And for me personally, rating the current group is difficult, separating the wheat from chaff as it were, in a group reeking of mediocrity. That being said, here's how I rate them, specifically in terms of who stays and goes:

1. Camarillo- with the caveat that his knee must get back to near 100%, no lingering issues. he finds a way to get open, he's cagey, and he has great hands. Speed is adequate. But it's a sobering thought that he's the best out of the group. Also factored in is his new contract, not sure what cap hit would be if he was let go.

2. Hartline- he has a lot to prove, but he has size, some speed, cutting ability, can block, good on special teams, good hands, and a smart player. Good, but not exactly a special talent.

3. Turner- I'm going on potential here. Size, strength, hands- this might be short-sighted, but it's too early to give up on a #3 pick, so that makes him safe, but only for so long.

4. Bess- he's a gamer and has great hands and quickness (until recently) but you can't escape that he is short and just plain slow.

5. Ginn- nice returner and occasional deep threat, that's about it. Most likely to go if he can actually be dealt. interesting note- ESPN ran a segment on West Point influence on Parcells, Bobby Knight, Coach K. Apparently Parcells is a punt return fanatic/expert. Phil McConkey went into detail about it. That should tell you something about how Parcells rates Ginn as a punt returner and why, even though he lost his starting WR position, he's still not returning punts. And the guy who is, Bess, is far from lighting it up there.

That was, quite frankly, depressing. Too many Brian Brennan-esque talents on this team. Or Phil McConkey if you'd rather. Seriously, is there a WR on our roster better than Kevin Curtis? I don't think so.

Who to draft- beats the hell out of me. The top guys have already been discussed plenty. Decker- given his injury history, 3rd rd. Has anyone seen him separate really well? Lafell- I don't know. Golden Tate/Damien Williams- 2nd rd guys?

These guys were tremendous values the last few years, I'm looking for common themes:

Marquesz Colston.
Hofstra, small school
7th rd pick
6-4, 225
top 40 time around 4.5
very fast 10 yard split
solid, muscualr build
former track athlete
over 48 foot triple jump

Miles Austin
Monmouth, small school
6-3, 220
undrafted
top 40 time around 4.5
former track athlete
over 214 foot javelin throw
solid, musular build

If anyone can dig up the other combine #s on these two guys please let me know. I'd like to see 3 cone drill, shuttle, bench, etc. What I'm looking for is a common thread linking these guys- big, strong, athletic WR's who were undervalued going in to the draft process and are now lighting it up in the pros.

How did these guys get lost in the shuffle? How can their type be identified? How did Colston and Austin go to Hofstra and Monmouth and Parcells missed them in the NJ/NY area? Yeah, I know hindsite is 20/20. It's intriguing to me because there is a specific type that I'm focusing on this year- Boldin, Bowe, Andre Johnson, Austin, Colston, Sims Walker, Nicks, Mike Sims Walker, Vincent Jackson. Who will the next ones be, the next steals? Maybe the Dolphins should hire an outside consultant regarding the search for WR's, draft and FA. The Ginn debacle is from a previous regime, but the Ernest Wilford complete debacle is concerning. Maybe scouting WRs just isn't their strong suit. Bryant, Benn, whoever else it may be, it's time to get the right guy- pronto.

I'd like to make this a team effort for anyone interested- data, thoughts, opinions. Is there a common thread or formula going on here that can be quantified? I doubt it, because smart guys are getting paid to dissect these players, and they probably would have done it already. But there is an elusive pattern of success going on here in terms of drafting this type of WR with their attributes and small school backgrounds, and I'd like for the Dolphins to tap into it.
 
The fact that the most production we have seen out of a receiver is 11 rec 110 yds and ZERO TDs with 2 dropped TDs I would say our receivers rate out pretty bad.
 
Parcells and Ireland actually brought Miles Austin in with Dallas. They are obviously still watching Monmouth since they drafted Nalbone from there.
 
jim1 said:
For those of the opinion that something has to change with the Fins WR's, I think it's fair to say that there are quite a few devils in the details- the details of who in the group stays and goes, who do you draft and how high, and who do you look at in FA. And for me personally, rating the current group is difficult, separating the wheat from chaff as it were in a group reeking of mediocrity. That being said, here's how I rate them, specifically in terms of who stays and goes:

1. Camarillo- with the caveat that his knee must get back to near 100%, no lingering issues. he finds a way to get open, he's cagey, and he has great hands. But at the same time it's a sobering thought that he's the best out of the group. Also factored in is the new contract, not sure what cap hit would be if he was let go.

2. Hartline- he has a lot to prove, but he has size, some speed, cutting ability, can block, good on special teams, good hands, and a smart player. Good, but not exactly a special talent.

3. Turner- I'm going on potential here. Size, strength, hands- this might be short-sighted, but it's too early to give up on a #3 pick, so that makes him safe, but only for so long.

4. Bess- he's a gamer and has great hands and quickness (until recently) but you can't escape that he is short and just plain slow.

5. Ginn- nice returner and occasional deep threat, that's about it. Most likely to go if he can actually be dealt. interesting note- ESPN ran a segment on West Point influence on Parcells, Bobby Knight, Coach K. Apparently Parcells is a punt return fanatic/expert. Phil McConkey went into detail about it. That should tell you something about how Parcells rates Ginn as a punt returner and why, even though he lost his starting WR position, he's still not returning punts. And the guy who is, Bess, is far from lighting it up there.

That was, quite frankly, depressing. Too many Brian Brennan-esque talents on this team. Or Phil McConkey if you'd rather. Seriously, is there a WR on our roster better than Kevin Curtis? I don't think so.

Who to draft- beats the hell out of me. The top guys have already been discussed plenty. Decker- given his injury history, 3rd rd. Has anyone seen him separate really well? Lafell- I don't know. Golden Tate/Damien Williams- 2nd rd guys?

These guys were tremendous values the last few years, I'm looking for common themes:

Marquesz Colston.
Hofstra
7th rd pick
6-4, 225
top 40 time around 4.5
very fast 10 yard split
solid, muscualr build
former track athlete
over 48 foot triple jump

Miles Austin
Monmouth
6-3, 220
undrafted
top 40 time around 4.5
former track athlete
over 214 foot javelin throw
solid, musular build

If anyone can dig up the other combine #s on these two guys please let me know. I'd like to see 3 cone drill, shuttle, bench, etc. What I'm looking for is a common thread linking these guys- big, strong, athletic WR's who were undervalued going in to the draft process and are now lighting it up in the pros.

How did these guys get lost in the shuffle? How can their type be identified? How did Colston and Austin go to Hofstra and Monmouth and Parcells missed them in the NJ/NY area? Yeah, I know hindsite is 20/20. It's intriguing to me because there is a specific type that I'm focusing on this year- Boldin, Bowe, Andre Johnson, Austin, Colston, Sims Walker, Nicks, Mike Sims Walker, Vincent Jackson. Who will the next ones be, the next steals? Maybe the Dolphins should hire an outside consultant regarding the search for WR's, draft and FA. The Ginn debacle is from a previous regime, but the Ernest Wilford complete debacle is concerning. Maybe scouting WRs just isn't their strong suit. Bryant, Benn, whoever else it may be, it's time to get the right guy- pronto.

I'd like to make this a team effort for anyone interested- data, thoughts, opinions. Is there a common thread or formula going on here? I doubt it, because smart guys are getting paid to dissect this stuff and these players' attributes, and they probably would have done it already. But there is a common theme going on here, and I'd like for the Dolphins to tap into it.
Click to expand...


This regimes philosophy does not place value in high draft picks at the WR position.

A philoso;y rooted in traditional football thinking, that you can find adequate athletes for WR in later rounds.

If you want to know just how good any WR is...look at how teams scheme against him.

Teams play our WR man to man. Not much respect in either our WR or our QB.

This regime had an opportunity with Braylon Edwards. Other available FA for next year are in his same category or far overpriced for this regime.

Drafting a WR is not the answer short term.
 
Valandui said:
Parcells and Ireland actually brought Miles Austin in with Dallas. They are obviously still watching Monmouth since they drafted Nalbone from there.
Click to expand...

Good points, both of them slipped my mind. Not to be hard on Parcells and Ireland, but what intrigues me is that Austin went undrafted out of Monmouth and yet Nalbone, coming from the same school, went in the 5th round. I've liked Austin for the last couple of years, before he went on this recent production binge. Big, fast, powerful, quick. I know that my opinion and some change will get you not much more than a cup of coffee, but Austin just had the look. The look that his good qualities could lead him to becoming something in the NFL. These mid to late to undrafted big, strong, powerful, quick, fast, sure handed receivers- seriously, if we picked 3 more in the next draft that would be fine with me. The shoe is going to drop on someone- Camarillo is a fan favorite for good reason- a sure handed clutch guy. Bess is the feel good underdog undrafted story with (until recently) hands of glue and good quicks. But he's average. Hartline and Turner- getting drafted in the 3rd and 4th only protects you for so long, or as they refer to the NFL, not for long. Ginn- can we just skip Ginn and let him return kickoffs?

This has been bugging me for the last few days, because I want one of THOSE guys on our team next year. Maybe two, who knows. Striking gold in the draft AND free agency would be sweet.
 
I would agree that our WRs are sub-par at best with TEs being included. I have been seriously disappointed with how much we have ignored this fact. This off season/season we have seen a cavalcade of WRs either change teams or beg for a trade(Edwards, Chambers, Ochocinco, Marshal, Boldin, etc.) Knowing we have not had a legit starting WR on the team in 2+ seasons I do not understand how all these names were available, and Miami never got in the talks.

To take some of the blame of the current regime, I am very curious how much the change from Pennington, who could not throw the ball with heat or past 15 yards, to Henne, who has a rocket arm, has affected this group. We did not see these same players have the drop issues they have had until Henne came in. I am also curious if we spent less time with preparing the wildcat and let Henne develop relationships with the WRs in practice would we be seeing the same problems.
 
phinfreak said:
This regimes philosophy does not place value in high draft picks at the WR position.

A philoso;y rooted in traditional football thinking, that you can find adequate athletes for WR in later rounds.

If you want to know just how good any WR is...look at how teams scheme against him.

Teams play our WR man to man. Not much respect in either our WR or our QB.

This regime had an opportunity with Braylon Edwards. Other available FA for next year are in his same category or far overpriced for this regime.

Drafting a WR is not the answer short term.
Click to expand...

Philosophies change, or can be diverted at times. All things being equal, you're right- but how many times before have Parcells or Ireland been saddled with the worst WR core in the league? You mentioned adequate athletes- that's part of the problem. Accross the board all that we have is adequate athletes at the position, which leads to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLGxWPtgodo

Ginn is being phased out of the offense, so I'm pretty much leaving him out of all this.

Drafting a WR may or may not be the answer, but I'm all for attacking the WR position in FA and draft if possible.
 
Dajesus said:
I would agree that our WRs are sub-par at best with TEs being included. I have been seriously disappointed with how much we have ignored this fact. This off season/season we have seen a cavalcade of WRs either change teams or beg for a trade(Edwards, Chambers, Ochocinco, Marshal, Boldin, etc.) Knowing we have not had a legit starting WR on the team in 2+ seasons I do not understand how all these names were available, and Miami never got in the talks.

To take some of the blame of the current regime, I am very curious how much the change from Pennington, who could not throw the ball with heat or past 15 yards, to Henne, who has a rocket arm, has affected this group. We did not see these same players have the drop issues they have had until Henne came in. I am also curious if we spent less time with preparing the wildcat and let Henne develop relationships with the WRs in practice would we be seeing the same problems.
Click to expand...

My guess is that if this is the problem then we have the wrong group of receivers. Pennington threw an unusually fluffy ball- maybe Charmin soft to catch, but we all bemoaned the lack of downfield zip. Time for the Dolphin receivers to sit at the big boys' table.
 
im incredibly dissapointed the WR problem was not addressed through FA or a trade(boldin, edwards, chambers... etc)

Long term, cam and hartline are the same type of WR, imo, but cam is more reliable. Bess has regressed in his second year. But I think he is still and interesting prospect for the slot. Turner's size also helps him differentiate. I hope a true #1 is brought next year and the current crew is put to battle it out for the remaining spots. I think ginn is odd man out unless he becomes lights out as a returner...
 
I wouldn't say hartline is exactly fast.....remember the saints game when he got caught running for the TD when he had a WIDE OPEN field? Mr. Not So Fast
 
this is why I was so pissed when they let Chambers and welker go. because they didnt replace them with anybody better.

and I am suprised that nobody has mentioned T.O. yet but I will just for good measures. I would bring in T.O. if there is anybody bette then I will back that fin fan all the way. regardless the prospects are very slim.
 
our number 2 and 3 wrs are not that good either but i would keep cam and cut everybody else.
 
TedGinnFTW said:
I wouldn't say hartline is exactly fast.....remember the saints game when he got caught running for the TD when he had a WIDE OPEN field? Mr. Not So Fast
Click to expand...

Well, what I said is that Hartline has "some speed". I think that he's what, a 4.52 to 4.55 guy. I saw him on that play get tracked down going for the endzone- it didn't look good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom