Reading Between the Lines of Hartline Comments a bout the Offense | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Reading Between the Lines of Hartline Comments a bout the Offense

JTech194

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I'm sure by now you've all heard or read what Brian had to say about the offense last year but there is one aspect of what he said that i feel needs further discussion. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that due to a different coaching philosophy, there was a lack of communication amongst the QB and the WR's and there was no room in the offense for on the fly adjustments to routes by the WR's or audibles. He said that the WR's HAD TO run the routes the exact way the offense called for.


1. I think we all agree that Ryan didn't have the option to audible at the LOS correct? (Some of us thought it was because he didn't recognize when to change the call but seems like that was by design) So because of the coaching philosophy, the players weren't allowed to make changes to the plays at the LOS, if the QB or WR (or any other player for that matter) noticed a mismatch at the LOS they did not have the authority to make a change on the spot. Assuming this is an accurate statement, how do you feel about an offense that doesn't allow for that? Do you think it makes it more difficult to score points when a team can just watch film and know exactly what you're going to do and the players have no authority to adjust on the fly? OR Do you trust the offense to the point where as long as the players run it the right way, it will work and points will be scored and there doesn't have to be room for on the fly adjustments??

2. Do you think route running is more of a science than an art and players shouldn't be given the freedom to improvise if they see something while Mid route that may prevent them from getting open? If the route that's called doesn't get you open the way the coaches are telling you to run it then so be it? OR do you feel that WR should be given the freedom to adjust the route as they see fit in an effort to get open?

There are arguments to be made on both sides, some can say that you have to allow the players to make adjustments in order to be successful. You could also argue that the system is designed for everything to work a certain way, and one piece of the offense works in conjunction with the other pieces, so if one player improvises it may throw off the entire offense (play sequences, setup for future plays etc...)

Another question i have is, MOST GREAT PLAYERS improvise and that's what makes them great, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Ed Reed, Sam Madison, Pat Surtain, Terrell Owens, Troy P (safety in Pittsburgh) etc.. all come to mind as players that were great because of how they are\were able to improvise and make plays. Do you think that any of those GREAT players would function well in a system that don't allow them to play outside of it?

Also, do you think great skill position players would come here knowing that those are the requirements, if let's say Dez B was available or D. Thomas or any other great WR out there today would they come play in a system like that, OR is it best to work with YOUNG players that haven't established themselves in the league yet so most likely won't question the coaches when it comes to the philosophy? Maybe this is why we haven't signed any Veteran WR's yet??

I'm just posing the questions for debate purposes, What do you guys think??
 
Tannehill should be able to audible out of bad looks. I dont think there is any logical counter argument against that.
 
I'm hoping that because it was year one in the offense and going into a 2nd year he will be able to make some changes at the line. I'm not a fan of running into a bad defense. Kind of stupid.
 
Reminds me when Jimmy J took Marinos ability to audible away
That was a bright move by Jimmy...F'n imbecile
 
The only lack of cummunication is that Hartline didn't realize the offense was better than it has been in a long time, and he wasn't a part of it.

It's not a coincidence...
 
Unless you have a QB who audibles when he shouldn't and audibles to the wrong play most of the time.
 
Tannehill should be able to audible out of bad looks. I dont think there is any logical counter argument against that.

I think a lot of coaches currently don't like their quarterbacks calling an audible on a passing play because so many of the modern passing plays already have adjustments built in. For example the receiver might run four different routes depending on the coverage. Coaches feel quarterbacks and receivers should just read the defense and make the proper adjustment to the called play instead of swicthing to an entirely different play. Calling an audible from a run to a pass or visa vrsa still occurs, but changing from one passing play to another has been greatly reduced.
 
What about receivers being able to ablib a bit when it comes to running routes? She this be allowed or not?
 
What about receivers being able to ablib a bit when it comes to running routes? She this be allowed or not?

Well, if the QB is expecting you to run to a spot & break a certain way, then you go the other direction ...

Smells like INT.
 
old offense more route combinations based on coverage and leverage etc...required a smarter wr...new offense run the route as it's called anyways regardless of coverage minus adjustments for man vs zone ie sit or carry
 
I'm sure by now you've all heard or read what Brian had to say about the offense last year but there is one aspect of what he said that i feel needs further discussion. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that due to a different coaching philosophy, there was a lack of communication amongst the QB and the WR's and there was no room in the offense for on the fly adjustments to routes by the WR's or audibles. He said that the WR's HAD TO run the routes the exact way the offense called for.


1. I think we all agree that Ryan didn't have the option to audible at the LOS correct? (Some of us thought it was because he didn't recognize when to change the call but seems like that was by design) So because of the coaching philosophy, the players weren't allowed to make changes to the plays at the LOS, if the QB or WR (or any other player for that matter) noticed a mismatch at the LOS they did not have the authority to make a change on the spot. Assuming this is an accurate statement, how do you feel about an offense that doesn't allow for that? Do you think it makes it more difficult to score points when a team can just watch film and know exactly what you're going to do and the players have no authority to adjust on the fly? OR Do you trust the offense to the point where as long as the players run it the right way, it will work and points will be scored and there doesn't have to be room for on the fly adjustments??

2. Do you think route running is more of a science than an art and players shouldn't be given the freedom to improvise if they see something while Mid route that may prevent them from getting open? If the route that's called doesn't get you open the way the coaches are telling you to run it then so be it? OR do you feel that WR should be given the freedom to adjust the route as they see fit in an effort to get open?

There are arguments to be made on both sides, some can say that you have to allow the players to make adjustments in order to be successful. You could also argue that the system is designed for everything to work a certain way, and one piece of the offense works in conjunction with the other pieces, so if one player improvises it may throw off the entire offense (play sequences, setup for future plays etc...)

Another question i have is, MOST GREAT PLAYERS improvise and that's what makes them great, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Ed Reed, Sam Madison, Pat Surtain, Terrell Owens, Troy P (safety in Pittsburgh) etc.. all come to mind as players that were great because of how they are\were able to improvise and make plays. Do you think that any of those GREAT players would function well in a system that don't allow them to play outside of it?

Also, do you think great skill position players would come here knowing that those are the requirements, if let's say Dez B was available or D. Thomas or any other great WR out there today would they come play in a system like that, OR is it best to work with YOUNG players that haven't established themselves in the league yet so most likely won't question the coaches when it comes to the philosophy? Maybe this is why we haven't signed any Veteran WR's yet??

I'm just posing the questions for debate purposes, What do you guys think??

I think if a QB is able to audible (talent/smarts) they should be able to. If the coach doesn't want it, don't.
It also depends "to what degree" routes are changed, you don't want it effecting the rest of the play in a negative way, where perhaps the play is going well for someone else.
Marino had to do what JJ asked. It seems to be the way to do what the leader of the team wants!
 
Hartline is a no nonsense type of guy. But the fact he would even talk about this makes me feel he's hurt and is trying to exact some sort of revenge directed at the Phins thru RT17.

It could also be true RT17 didn't like how Hartline was being phased out and simply stopped communicating with Hartline in meetings.
 
I think the Phins had a bunch of mediocre vet receivers who believed they knew better than the coaches and who did not respect or have patience for RT to develop. It's not a stretch to suggest they probably fed off each other in that WR room, so I'm glad the lot of them is gone.
 
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