Reminder: How important is a franchise QB? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Reminder: How important is a franchise QB?

dabeastdabone

dabeastdabone

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I went through and dug up some information I think people should take to heart when looking over the Miami QB situation.

Here are a few of the most legendary Head Coaches and a few notable Picks of theirs:

Vince Lombardi, tough guy, beat them in the trenches guy, right? Well his first draft pick of the Packers, the first overall pick was a QB, Randy Duncan.

Jimmy Johnson, In his first draft also took a QB (Aikman) with the first overall pick, also took Steve Walsh with the first pick in the supplemental draft.

Chuck Knoll, In his first year he drafted a QB in the 2nd round (#30) Terry Hanratty. The Following year he Drafted Terry Bradshaw with the first Overall pick.

Bill Walsh, with his second pick as a Head Coach (a 3rd round pick) walsh selected Joe Montana. His First Pick was a Running Back.

The above four teams are arguably in the top 7 or so teams/Head Coaches in NFL history. It appears to me they didn't "Build from the inside out" or buy as much into "defense wins Championships" or any of the other Coach Speak BS.

A couple other notables...

Bill Parcells, His first pick of his stint at the Patriots was the 1st overall, Drew Bledsoe.

Bill Cower, Might of not taken so long to win a Superbowl if Ben Roethlisberger wasn't the only QB he drafted in the first round in his 15 years as Head Coach of the Steelers.

Please feel free to add your points or counterpoints...
 
In my opinion....you draft a QB until you have a franchise QB.

I give Beck just this season, if he doesn't show that he's a franchise QB, I don't want him.
 
dabeastdabone said:
I went through and dug up some information I think people should take to heart when looking over the Miami QB situation.

Here are a few of the most legendary Head Coaches and a few notable Picks of theirs:

Vince Lombardi, tough guy, beat them in the trenches guy, right? Well his first draft pick of the Packers, the first overall pick was a QB, Randy Duncan.

Jimmy Johnson, In his first draft also took a QB (Aikman) with the first overall pick, also took Steve Walsh with the first pick in the supplemental draft.

Chuck Knoll, In his first year he drafted a QB in the 2nd round (#30) Terry Hanratty. The Following year he Drafted Terry Bradshaw with the first Overall pick.

Bill Walsh, with his second pick as a Head Coach (a 3rd round pick) walsh selected Joe Montana. His First Pick was a Running Back.

The above four teams are arguably in the top 7 or so teams/Head Coaches in NFL history. It appears to me they didn't "Build from the inside out" or buy as much into "defense wins Championships" or any of the other Coach Speak BS.

A couple other notables...

Bill Parcells, His first pick of his stint at the Patriots was the 1st overall, Drew Bledsoe.

Bill Cower, Might of not taken so long to win a Superbowl if Ben Roethlisberger wasn't the only QB he drafted in the first round in his 15 years as Head Coach of the Steelers.

Please feel free to add your points or counterpoints...
Click to expand...

One of your examples contradicts what you are trying to prove. Ben Roethlisberger went to a complete team; defensively stout, I think he had a good line in front of him, and he had offensive weapons surrounding him. Sure, franchise QB's would be great to have. But you can't force a QB to be a franchise level QB. Players like David Carr and Tim Couch were believed to be franchise QBs. The jury is out on Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell who were also seen as franchise QBs. Just saying, some people want a franchise QB so badly, that they force themselves to see that level talent in prospects.
 
I'm not sold on Beck, he didn't show much last year and that administration was a joke but if there isn't a QB worth taking #1 overall it's dumb just to do it. If there was a franchise QB that Parcells and Co. were sold on I'm sure they would take him.
 
PogiRo said:
One of your examples contradicts what you are trying to prove. Ben Roethlisberger went to a complete team; defensively stout, I think he had a good line in front of him, and he had offensive weapons surrounding him. Sure, franchise QB's would be great to have. But you can't force a QB to be a franchise level QB. Players like David Carr and Tim Couch were believed to be franchise QBs. The jury is out on Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell who were also seen as franchise QBs. Just saying, some people want a franchise QB so badly, that they force themselves to see that level talent in prospects.
Click to expand...

Other QB's have played for good all around teams and not won it. But even that isn't my point.

What I'm saying is some of the best Head Coaches in the NFL targeted the QB position as the first thing to get "up to snuff". These were poor teams for the most part, like Miami is...they to had the first pick to prove it. The saying "build from the inside out" ISN'T the method Lambardi, Johnson, Walsh, or Knoll belived in when it came to push and shove. The proof is undeniable.
 
ShaBam said:
In my opinion....you draft a QB until you have a franchise QB.

I give Beck just this season, if he doesn't show that he's a franchise QB, I don't want him.
Click to expand...


AMEN!! We always have next draft to select a QB. Why select one just to select one. Isnt the strategey pick the best talent on the board?
 
dagger151 said:
AMEN!! We always have next draft to select a QB. Why select one just to select one. Isnt the strategey pick the best talent on the board?
Click to expand...

You might want to look at the QB's hitting the League over the next couple years. This time next year we will be saying the same thing about the QB's then, compared to this years crop as we are saying to the QB's this year, as it has to do with last years draft.
 
Its as simple as this. A franchise QB is the most important position on the team. IT IS TO BAD THERE ARE NONE IN THE FIRST ROUND. Beck has this year to prove himself and has shown the talent, discipline, hard work, maturity, and intelligence to deserve that shot. If he wins we win. If he loses, we lose and we have a high pick next year to have a shot at one if one proves himself as one. Tim?
 
umpalu said:
Its as simple as this. A franchise QB is the most important position on the team. IT IS TO BAD THERE ARE NONE IN THE FIRST ROUND. Beck has this year to prove himself and has shown the talent, discipline, hard work, maturity, and intelligence to deserve that shot. If he wins we win. If he loses, we lose and we have a high pick next year to have a shot at one if one proves himself as one. Tim?
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, thats your opinion and it means nothing. The experts out there saying he (Ryan) is first round talent, some saying he is a franchise QB, some even saying much higher praises.

Anyone arguing he isn't simply is bias because they prefer another player, which that's Ok, but don't say like it's fact and your ability to evaluate talent is the last word we should hope to hear.
 
dabeastdabone said:
Here's the thing, thats your opinion and it means nothing. The experts out there saying he (Ryan) is first round talent, some saying he is a franchise QB, some even saying much higher praises.

Anyone arguing he isn't simply is bias because they prefer another player, which that's Ok, but don't say like it's fact and your ability to evaluate talent is the last word we should hope to hear.
Click to expand...

I am sorry I will only lay out the facts on these boards from now on. My opinion is worthless and useless on these public realms :(
 
dabeastdabone said:
Here's the thing, thats your opinion and it means nothing. The experts out there saying he (Ryan) is first round talent, some saying he is a franchise QB, some even saying much higher praises.

Anyone arguing he isn't simply is bias because they prefer another player, which that's Ok, but don't say like it's fact and your ability to evaluate talent is the last word we should hope to hear.
Click to expand...

The experts also loved Ryan Leaf and David Carr. Nothign is a sure thing. They must produce at the next level. The experts were wrong about Brady and even Marino. He slipped to 27th pick? Thats Brohm this year...watch out.
 
dabeastdabone said:
Other QB's have played for good all around teams and not won it. But even that isn't my point.

What I'm saying is some of the best Head Coaches in the NFL targeted the QB position as the first thing to get "up to snuff". These were poor teams for the most part, like Miami is...they to had the first pick to prove it. The saying "build from the inside out" ISN'T the method Lambardi, Johnson, Walsh, or Knoll belived in when it came to push and shove. The proof is undeniable.
Click to expand...

Eh, this is all about nothing I think. I mean, there's no doubt that a franchise QB makes things easier. But you can't just look at these picks and make assumptions as to their philosophies, that they didn't follow the "build from the inside" plan. You're just making too big of a jump there. I'm not old enough to comment too much on the other coaches, but one of your examples was Parcells when he drafted Bledsoe. But when he took over in Dallas, they didn't draft a single QB. He did bring in Testaverde and Bledsoe, so maybe the importance he puts in at the QB position is more like he wants a QB that thinks like he does. But surely he didn't see them as franchise QBs the 2nd time around.

And Jimmy Johnson brought Aikman onto a Dallas team that had some key pieces to their line locked up in Newton and Tuinei, and then drafted Stepnoski in the same draft. So you could say that team was built from the inside out somewhat.

Basically, if in another situation, the other coaches you discussed could have changed the same way Parcells changed. It just depends on the team, the needs, and players available in the draft and free agency and so many other factors. QB is the most important position on the field; that's undeniable. When there is a franchise QB available to you, you get him because they don't come around too often. That doesn't mean that whoever got him believes you start building a team by getting a QB first.
 
dabeastdabone said:
Here's the thing, thats your opinion and it means nothing. The experts out there saying he (Ryan) is first round talent, some saying he is a franchise QB, some even saying much higher praises.

Anyone arguing he isn't simply is bias because they prefer another player, which that's Ok, but don't say like it's fact and your ability to evaluate talent is the last word we should hope to hear.
Click to expand...


You know, there are experts and analysts that are saying he won't be a franchise QB. So anyone arguing against, what obviously you believe could be agreeing with those analysts and not your analysts.

Also, the top QBs of each draft are always projected as first round talents. Just because Ryan is projected as a first round talent isn't saying much, especially considering all he had to beat out was Brohm with his mediocre performances against quality teams, Henne's unimpressive year, and Flacco.
 
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