Richard Vs. Flores | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Richard Vs. Flores

This is a tough situation for any coach to come into, especially one with very little experience. That's not to say it can't work, but the front office has to give him more to work with than Adam Gase had. Adding talent to the defensive and offensive lines has to be a huge priority. Miami has to hit on their draft. Oh, and a better than average quarterback would be nice.

Honestly, I would have preferred a veteran coach but maybe Miami strikes gold. Got to at least say the front office is swinging for the fences.
 
ForksPhin said:
So wait a second, Dean Pees leaves after 2009. Patricia calls plays for the defense in 2010 and 2011 without being named DC. In 2012, Patricia is named DC. He remains DC through 2017. Flores isn’t named DC for 2018. So for 7 of the “10 years” you mention (2009, 2012 - 2017), Belichick had a named DC.

Seems like the OP had it straight. Patricia got a few seasons of calling plays before he was officially named DC. And Flores was getting similar treatment. Which seems to be Belichick’s way of saying “I’ll give you the title when I think you’re ready”.
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We're saying the same thing.

He elevates someone, gives them a couple seasons, then names them DC if they're still there.
 
circumstances said:
Get the narrative straight. After Dean Pees left the Pats in 2009, no Defensive Coordinator was named. Matt Patricia was the de facto DC in 2010, 2011, 2012, and was named Defensive Coordinator in 2013.

Just the way Belichick does things for the past ten years.
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This is disingenuous. The OP has it straight.

Belichick's MO on this is clear. He makes coaches earn the DC title.

Had Belichick thought Flores was ready for it -- or had done enough to earn in -- last off-season, he would have named Flores DC. He didn't, ergo Belichick didn't think the time had come.

Yet somehow within the span of one season Flores went from 'hasn't earned the DC title' to 'ready to be a HC.' It doesn't make any sense.
 
Superself said:
Go deeper. Could be that Bill is keeping his assistants in position without the official title because he gets to keep them longer.

Flores is someone he groomed. Bill liked the guy. That gives me way more confidence than these hissy fit filled hot takes that seem to be the typical programmed reaction around here.
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Did Bill like Patricia? McDaniels? Has the fact that Bill liked them counted for anything?
 
Not concerned what Belichick thinks on defense. He thought not playing Malcom Butler during the Super Bowl was a good idea, 41 points surrendered and a Super Bowl loss later it seems that might have been a great idea to play him.

Belichick also thought putting Gronk as the last line of defense on the Miami Miracle play.

If those calls were Flores I would say no way should Miami hire him. So I'm going to keep an open mind. If Flores turns out to be total garbage perhaps Miami ends up in position to finally get a legit starting QB which would turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
 
eomdtbtr said:
This is disingenuous. The OP has it straight.

Belichick's MO on this is clear. He makes coaches earn the DC title.

Had Belichick thought Flores was ready for it -- or had done enough to earn in -- last off-season, he would have named Flores DC. He didn't, ergo Belichick didn't think the time had come.

Yet somehow within the span of one season Flores went from 'hasn't earned the DC title' to 'ready to be a HC.' It doesn't make any sense.
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Patricia was the defensive coordinator without "earning it" for three full seasons.

Why would Belichick give Flores (or anyone) the DC title after one season?

And if we don't hire him, what's to say he won't make him DC for next season?
 
Richard vs Flores


Richard

Positive: Spent 5 years as a DB coach in Seattle, before spending the next 3 as a DC. After being fired, spent last season as DB coach in Dallas

Negative: Has never been a HC and nobody knows how he will do. Has shown zero evidence that he would be better than other candidates.


Flores

Positive: Spent 7 years as a position coach in NE before being promoted to acting DC (even if not given the title).

Negative: Has never been a HC and nobody knows how he will do. Has shown zero evidence that he would be better than other candidates.
 
circumstances said:
Patricia was the defensive coordinator without "earning it" for three full seasons.

Why would Belichick give Flores (or anyone) the DC title after one season?

And if we don't hire him, what's to say he won't make him DC for next season?
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In response to your last question, he very could make Flores DC next year if we don't hire him.

Even if that happens, the fact remains Belichick didn't think he was ready for that title last off-season. Just like he didn't think Patricia was ready until 2013.

People are acting as if Belichick just bestows the DC title on these coaches at a random arbitrary time -- and it's nonsense. Obviously he's waiting to see certain things in his coaches before he gives them the title.

Clearly he didn't see everything he needed to see in Flores to name him DC last off-season. If he had, Flores would have been named DC.

Now you, or anyone else, is still free to argue Flores is a great hire. And you very well could be right on that count. I genuinely hope that I am wrong.

Having said that, I'm still uncertain what has transpired in the last year to make Flores go from 'not ready to be DC' to 'ready to be HC.'

And none of this changes that the people on this forum dismissing the fact Belichick didn't name Flores DC last off-season as meaningless are being disingenuous.
 
eomdtbtr said:
In response to your last question, he very could make Flores DC next year if we don't hire him.

Even if that happens, the fact remains Belichick didn't think he was ready for that title last off-season. Just like he didn't think Patricia was ready until 2013.

People are acting as if Belichick just bestows the DC title on these coaches at a random arbitrary time -- and it's nonsense. Obviously he's waiting to see certain things in his coaches before he gives them the title.

Clearly he didn't see everything he needed to see in Flores to name him DC last off-season. If he had, Flores would have been named DC.

Now you, or anyone else, is still free to argue Flores is a great hire. And you very well could be right on that count. I genuinely hope that I am wrong.

Having said that, I'm still uncertain what has transpired in the last year to make Flores go from 'not ready to be DC' to 'ready to be HC.'

And none of this changes that the people on this forum dismissing the fact Belichick didn't name Flores DC last off-season as meaningless are being disingenuous.
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No it isn't.

Patricia WAS the ****ing DC in 10, 11 and 12!

Flores WAS the ****ing DC last year!

If Belichick doesn't feel like calling them that because, well, he's Belichick, didn't mean they weren't manning the spot!
 
eomdtbtr said:
In response to your last question, he very could make Flores DC next year if we don't hire him.

Even if that happens, the fact remains Belichick didn't think he was ready for that title last off-season. Just like he didn't think Patricia was ready until 2013.

People are acting as if Belichick just bestows the DC title on these coaches at a random arbitrary time -- and it's nonsense. Obviously he's waiting to see certain things in his coaches before he gives them the title.

Clearly he didn't see everything he needed to see in Flores to name him DC last off-season. If he had, Flores would have been named DC.

Now you, or anyone else, is still free to argue Flores is a great hire. And you very well could be right on that count. I genuinely hope that I am wrong.

Having said that, I'm still uncertain what has transpired in the last year to make Flores go from 'not ready to be DC' to 'ready to be HC.'

And none of this changes that the people on this forum dismissing the fact Belichick didn't name Flores DC last off-season as meaningless are being disingenuous.
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You pretending he wasn't the DC last year (good job or bad job) whether Belichick called him "defensive coordinator" or dog catcher is what's disingenuous here.
 
Dallas gave up 324 points this season, New England 325. The Patriots gave up more yards but had more turnovers . Maybe we think of 2018 as uninspiring because they do it every year?
 
circumstances said:
Patricia was the defensive coordinator without "earning it" for three full seasons.

Why would Belichick give Flores (or anyone) the DC title after one season?

And if we don't hire him, what's to say he won't make him DC for next season?
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Pretty sure it was only two seasons for Patricia - 2010 and 2011. He was DC from 2012 through 2017.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, circumstances.

I never suggested Flores/Patricia didn't man the spot prior to being named DC. What I'm saying is quite simple: Last off-season, Belichick didn't think Flores had earned the DC title. This is a fact. It is undeniable.
 
This place has really become a cesspool of negativity and weak arguments.

Flores was groomed in the perhaps the best run organized sporting organization in modern history and you're all buthurt about it because the candidate you like had a few nice Youtube videos.

Flores is the Erik Spolestra of the Patriots organization, if he can replicate that success in Miami he'll be fine.

He isn't some OC that has a year of experience in a system. He's been a fixture there and hopefully learned how to manage and run team over his 11 years.
 
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