Ronnie Brown: Measurables vs. Intangibles

[knight6jb]

I keep looking at this from Linehan's eyes...Brown is the proto-typical type of back for his offensive scheme. Now, does Saban take him based on that, none of us know right now, but the draftniks and other experts seem to think that he will (again probably based on his potential in Linehan's O). Brown is a slashing power runner who excels after he breaks from the LOS. Benson will be better suited to a NT type offense...(run up the middle and then break to the outside if it is clogged up). He is not, however, very good in the passing game, a major prerequisite for Linehan. Caddy is more of a shifty, change of pace back with more ability than a Minor or Warwick Dunn. But not very good in the passing game either. So, based on each RBs specific abilities, Brown is the better choice for us....

I wouldn't be too unhappy with any of these guys in a Fins uniform, but also would not be a bit surprised to see him pass on any of them and go QB or WR, if we stay at #2 or trade down (which I personally think he will do)...We could pick up a back in the 3rd round that would compliment Gordon/Morris in Linehan's scheme as well. Actually, Gordon is a very intriguing prospect. His potential seems to fit well in this offensive scheme also. Potential is the operative word here on Gordon.

See i disagree with you on Brown fitting the system better? Based on what his hands. Caddy's running style fits Linehans system better than Browns running style. The only things Brown has better to fit the system is hands and blocking ability, which Caddy has been working on and can improve with. Like i said this is a RB and caddy's style fits it more, based on his running ability, not his hands or blocking.

Gordon is almost and exact replica of Brown. Both are big 6'1 230lbs, good hands out of the backfield, blazing speed (Gordon is faster), good blockers, not great vision or agility. If anything we should go with Caddy based off the fact we have Gordon. Linehans likes RB by committee. Why would you want 2 of the same style runners with that, you want change in the middle of the game, and Gordon and Caddy are completey different runners. Still IMHO Caddy fits Linehans system alot better then BRown and everyone knows Benson doesnt fit here, like you said NT offense. Caddy 05'!!!

 

[Phishstix]

See i disagree with you on Brown fitting the system better? Based on what his hands. Caddy's running style fits Linehans system better than Browns running style. The only things Brown has better to fit the system is hands and blocking ability, which Caddy has been working on and can improve with. Like i said this is a RB and caddy's style fits it more, based on his running ability, not his hands or blocking.

Gordon is almost and exact replica of Brown. Both are big 6'1 230lbs, good hands out of the backfield, blazing speed (Gordon is faster), good blockers, not great vision or agility. If anything we should go with Caddy based off the fact we have Gordon. Linehans likes RB by committee. Why would you want 2 of the same style runners with that, you want change in the middle of the game, and Gordon and Caddy are completey different runners. Still IMHO Caddy fits Linehans system alot better then BRown and everyone knows Benson doesnt fit here, like you said NT offense. Caddy 05'!!!

i'm with you on caddy, just not at #2. i'd be great if saban could strike a deal to move down to the 7 spot and take caddy there, but i'm leary of taking any rb at #2 b/c of the unprecendented rb depth in this draft.

 

[KB21]

See i disagree with you on Brown fitting the system better? Based on what his hands. Caddy's running style fits Linehans system better than Browns running style. The only things Brown has better to fit the system is hands and blocking ability, which Caddy has been working on and can improve with. Like i said this is a RB and caddy's style fits it more, based on his running ability, not his hands or blocking.

Gordon is almost and exact replica of Brown. Both are big 6'1 230lbs, good hands out of the backfield, blazing speed (Gordon is faster), good blockers, not great vision or agility. If anything we should go with Caddy based off the fact we have Gordon. Linehans likes RB by committee. Why would you want 2 of the same style runners with that, you want change in the middle of the game, and Gordon and Caddy are completey different runners. Still IMHO Caddy fits Linehans system alot better then BRown and everyone knows Benson doesnt fit here, like you said NT offense. Caddy 05'!!!

Here you go again saying that Ronnie Brown does not have good vision and agility.

There are absolutely no similarities between Lamar Gordon and Ronnie Brown. Gordon is an upright runner who lacks quickness to the hole and hesitates too much in the backfield. Brown is a runner that runs with good body lean who is quick to and through the hole, and he's a decisive runner.

 

[knight6jb]

Here you go again saying that Ronnie Brown does not have good vision and agility.

There are absolutely no similarities between Lamar Gordon and Ronnie Brown. Gordon is an upright runner who lacks quickness to the hole and hesitates too much in the backfield. Brown is a runner that runs with good body lean who is quick to and through the hole, and he's a decisive runner.

I never said Brown does not have good vision or agility, I said Caddy has better vision and agility. Size, speed, hands, blocking are pretty big similarities between those two, and thats why everyone is supposidly in love with Brown. You may have watched films and thought he was better then the rest. Before the combine not many were on the Ronnie Brown bandwagon, post combine everyone is on his nuts. I understand if you were one who wanted him before the combine that means you saw things others didnt, but majority of fans don't watch the films and try to analyze the player, they take what ever Kiper or whoever say and run with it. I myself have watch both and repeatedly cover clips and highlights of them both, and in my honest opinion I feel Caddy is going to be the best. and I feel Brown doesnt have great vision or agility, you can argue otherwise since you are a so called draft guru, but I'm sticking to my eyes and studies, and not listening to what others such as Kiper say.

 

[TigerNMiami]

6 one way, a half dozen the other

I’ve had the pleasure of watching Carnell and Ronnie play in person for the last four years. Actually, I’ve been watching Caddy since his junior year in high school. So let me preface this by saying I’m a bit partial to Carnell since he’s the hometown guy. Anyway, both of these backs are damn good. Both of them are at their best running between the tackles. Carnell has an innate ability to find the cutback lanes. He is also a ball of pure muscle, and his strength is highly understated. He has tremendous leg drive, and frankly I’d rather have him running the ball in a short yardage situation. His main knocks are his hands and blocking abilities. Both of which have improved. Caddy was our punt returner last year, and did a great job (probably the best return man in the league last year). So it’s not like he has stone hands or anything. Ronnie just has a better feel for receiving the ball out of the backfield. Ronnie does everything well, he just isn’t real “showyâ€Â. He performed well in the clutch for us. His Soph. year we were playing UF @ G’ville and were getting waxed pretty good. Carnell went down around halftime (this was the game he broke his leg in) and we were down about 14 points. Ronnie had a spectacular second half. We should have won the game, but missed a chip shot FG and lost in OT. Ronnie closed out the year rushing for over 1000 yards in 6 games. He had a spectacular game against Penn State in the bowl game. Ran for around 200 yards and scored the winning TD. Anyway, both Ronnie and Carnell are special backs. They both work hard, and are unselfish. Real team players. The one positive thing about Ronnie that I don’t see anyone mentioning is the fact that unlike most 1st round backs, he has little wear and tear. The one benefit of not having to carry the load in college, is he has a lot of gas left in the tank. If I could make the pick for Saban, I’d go with Caddy. But again, that’s may just be the hometown bias sneaking through.

 

[Shouright]

This is my concern about Brown as well. In terms of running ability (forget about pass-catching and blocking for now), there's something that distinguishes the Antowain Smiths from the Earl Campbells of the world, and I think the guy who started this thread hit it on the head. How'd you like to draft an Antowain Smith replica at #2 overall? Maybe an Antowain Smith replica in the 3rd round, but not #2 overall.

I think what we're talking about here is the difference between a guy who was BORN to be a football running back and a guy who's got a lot of measurable things going for him but doesn't look like he was born to do it when he's on the field. Emmitt Smith (and Walter Payton) looks like he was born to be an NFL running back. Sammie Smith's measurables were better than Emmitt's, but obviously something was wrong on the field.

 

[finfan54]

i'm with you on caddy, just not at #2. i'd be great if saban could strike a deal to move down to the 7 spot and take caddy there, but i'm leary of taking any rb at #2 b/c of the unprecendented rb depth in this draft.

Has anyone considered that maybe we already have a deal to trade down with say minny or arizona? Saban has been checking out alot of 2nd and third rounders and has hinted that he wants value and he has looked at alot of players at the RB and QB position which are both deep (qb less deep).

 

[knight6jb]

I’ve had the pleasure of watching Carnell and Ronnie play in person for the last four years. Actually, I’ve been watching Caddy since his junior year in high school. So let me preface this by saying I’m a bit partial to Carnell since he’s the hometown guy. Anyway, both of these backs are damn good. Both of them are at their best running between the tackles. Carnell has an innate ability to find the cutback lanes. He is also a ball of pure muscle, and his strength is highly understated. He has tremendous leg drive, and frankly I’d rather have him running the ball in a short yardage situation. His main knocks are his hands and blocking abilities. Both of which have improved. Caddy was our punt returner last year, and did a great job (probably the best return man in the league last year). So it’s not like he has stone hands or anything. Ronnie just has a better feel for receiving the ball out of the backfield. Ronnie does everything well, he just isn’t real “showyâ€Â. He performed well in the clutch for us. His Soph. year we were playing UF @ G’ville and were getting waxed pretty good. Carnell went down around halftime (this was the game he broke his leg in) and we were down about 14 points. Ronnie had a spectacular second half. We should have won the game, but missed a chip shot FG and lost in OT. Ronnie closed out the year rushing for over 1000 yards in 6 games. He had a spectacular game against Penn State in the bowl game. Ran for around 200 yards and scored the winning TD. Anyway, both Ronnie and Carnell are special backs. They both work hard, and are unselfish. Real team players. The one positive thing about Ronnie that I don’t see anyone mentioning is the fact that unlike most 1st round backs, he has little wear and tear. The one benefit of not having to carry the load in college, is he has a lot of gas left in the tank. If I could make the pick for Saban, I’d go with Caddy. But again, that’s may just be the hometown bias sneaking through.

Thanks for the insight man!! Great post, I realize everyone has there own opinion to the RB's, I just wish more people would actually look at some films, and decide themselves on it. Instead I have a feeling most people have never seen them play and are basing everything off of what the so called analyst say. I for one am a football buff, I eat, breath, and live football. I am also going into coaching after I graduate, so I like to study players and look for things when watching. Again I dont think many fans do that, I do understand everyone on this message board id probably also football buffs, otherwise they wouldnt be here, but I actually have seen both play as well and I feel Caddy is a better runner than Brown, and I feel Brown is a great runner but is being too hyped up by his combine and by Kiper and company, I guess all I'm trying to say is I wish more people would go and watch these RB's and then make their descions. If they still feel Brown is better than awesome, you are intitled to your own opinion and are welcome to share, or if you think Benson is the best, sweet! But don't just say I want Brown or Benson or Caddy and leave it at that, try to explain to the rest what it is you like and why it is you feel he is suited for us Phins! and I'm not saying all do that but alot of the people on the board do.

 

[Auburnfan4life]

You guys don't need to worry about Ronnie...

I agree that Carnell is a better pure runner, but Ronnie is still very good. There's a reason that Ronnie ran for over 1,000 yards in about 6 or 7 games back in '02 when Carnell got hurt mid season. Ronnie is a better runner than you think and a punishing one at that. Trust me, this guy is a stud. Hard to beat a guy who is 230 pounds and runs a 4.4 and can catch like a receiver...unless your name is Carnell Williams ; )

 

[Dolfan2788]

I agree that Carnell is a better pure runner, but Ronnie is still very good. There's a reason that Ronnie ran for over 1,000 yards in about 6 or 7 games back in '02 when Carnell got hurt mid season. Ronnie is a better runner than you think and a punishing one at that. Trust me, this guy is a stud. Hard to beat a guy who is 230 pounds and runs a 4.4 and can catch like a receiver...unless your name is Carnell Williams ; )

Ronnie is a great runner and so is Benson, but college LB's usually hover around 220-235 pounds. Most NFL linebackers are faster and bigger at usually 235-250 pounds. It's going to be harder for them to adjust I believe to the NFL than it will be for Caddy.

 

[TigerNMiami]

I don't know about that.

Ronnie is a great runner and so is Benson, but college LB's usually hover around 220-235 pounds. Most NFL linebackers are faster and bigger at usually 235-250 pounds. It's going to be harder for them to adjust I believe to the NFL than it will be for Caddy.

How many running backs are there in the NFL that tip the scales at over 230 and run a sub 4.4/40? Ronnie went up against some damn good linebackers in practice everyday in Karlos Dansby, D. Thomas, and Travis Williams. But I see where you are going. Caddy and Brown are both really versatile, more so than Benson (IMO), which I think will help ease their transition.

 

[Dolphalou]

I never said Brown does not have good vision or agility, I said Caddy has better vision and agility. Size, speed, hands, blocking are pretty big similarities between those two, and thats why everyone is supposidly in love with Brown. You may have watched films and thought he was better then the rest. Before the combine not many were on the Ronnie Brown bandwagon, post combine everyone is on his nuts. I understand if you were one who wanted him before the combine that means you saw things others didnt, but majority of fans don't watch the films and try to analyze the player, they take what ever Kiper or whoever say and run with it. I myself have watch both and repeatedly cover clips and highlights of them both, and in my honest opinion I feel Caddy is going to be the best. and I feel Brown doesnt have great vision or agility, you can argue otherwise since you are a so called draft guru, but I'm sticking to my eyes and studies, and not listening to what others such as Kiper say.

You make a lot of sense dude .... I think that the better way to judge football players is to watch them play. Before the combine C. Williams & C. Benson were in a class of their own based on their play on the field. Just because a player have a good track time at the combine, we should not forget the last three years of play !!!!!! Let's GO Cadillac!!!!

 

[Ozzy]

and I'm quit trying to convince all the Ronnie Brown combine bandwagoners, that Caddy is a better runner then Brown. Brown might be a more complete package b/c of his hands and blocking, but which is harder to teach someone, vision or how to catch and block. Vision is the biggest factor when it comes to RB's, not if he can catch or block.Caddy has amazing vision, Brown has average vision. I'll take Caddy anyday of the week, espcially since he put on weight.

I've been a bandwagoner since back in Sept.

Ronnie Brown has excellent vision!! He knows he is not the shifty runner, so he sets up a lane with his vision, which can lead to much longer runs if that runner has the speed to do so. That's why with less carries, he has recorded more runs of 30 yards or more, than both Caddy, or Benson. Caddy sees any hole, and hits it, then he uses his shifty stop and go style to gain a few more yards.

Well, in the NFL, I'll take a Rb who picks the lanes because the shifty runner is going to find yards very hard to come by. Now if you can garauntee me that Caddy will be the next Curtis Martin, who's styles are very similar, then fine, but I don't see it.

 

[Shouright]

I've been a bandwagoner since back in Sept.

Ronnie Brown has excellent vision!! He knows he is not the shifty runner, so he sets up a lane with his vision, which can lead to much longer runs if that runner has the speed to do so. That's why with less carries, he has recorded more runs of 30 yards or more, than both Caddy, or Benson. Caddy sees any hole, and hits it, then he uses his shifty stop and go style to gain a few more yards.

Well, in the NFL, I'll take a Rb who picks the lanes because the shifty runner is going to find yards very hard to come by. Now if you can garauntee me that Caddy will be the next Curtis Martin, who's styles are very similar, then fine, but I don't see it.

This guy has a point. The type of running I think he's talking about here is like Clinton Portis. And who had more yards per carry a couple years ago? Portis had like 5.7.

 

[njFinsForever]

If we don't trade down I think it'll be Braylon (first) or Smith (second bet). Edwards is about as sure of a thing as you can get and many say he's the best all-around athlete available while Smith is a good QB but QB's have more ? marks then a solid WR that can be a game changer.

i hope to god we pick edwards