RT still out there....

[cuzinvinny]

Agree. The coaches have had the time to look at plenty of tape from last year and they have seen the players in recent workouts. I believe they will go with the offensive linemen now on the roster this season and add more offensive linemen in the 2023 draft if they aren’t satisfied with one or more of the starters after the 2022 season.

Just curious

Plenty of tape ? Tape showing what ? how to be unprepared, bottom of the league in efficiency ? All the work and fingers crossed needed to get mediocrity. I mean thats what I see and have seen...

As far as recent work outs ? What caliber of linemen have they seen them go up against this new season to give a fair or at least adequate evaluation at this point. At least wait to see the practices coming up and facing real competition, Yes real competition against a Tampa or a Eagles team not screwing around

Do you actually think relaying on 1.) no injuries to actual proven players all season 2.) possibility of one of the guys not being on the scale evaluated ? 3.) Basing much of the offensive success on hopeful unseen as of yet, by not one but several OL men needing to make a huge leap, hmmm feels much the same as last years and years before that of talk which somehow has never been truly achieved, while especially this year having the ingredients to complete the job. At a minimum acquiring adequate non retreads for backup.

Just one guys observation with years of actual game and seasons of real factual and complete tape observation, not so much , guessing

Oh ya, do it next year ? hmmm sounds pretty damn familiar.. truthfully sick of hearing that. 20 years of OL blah blah blah makes one a bit skeptical..

 

[Ray R]

I think the first part of this off season was where McDaniel has worked on what is required of players to succeed in the NFL, attitude, the playbook and a focus on teamwork.

I believe it will be the last part of the preseason that will "tell the tale".

We will soon find out which players will have taken advantage of the time leading up to the start of practice. This will be evident by their results, from starting to develop good eating habits, effective workout plans and effective workouts, having fully learned the playbook, developing relationships with other players and in general, just being ready in every way to start practice with as much pre-preparation completed as possible.

When the practice games start, we will see what kind of team we have and when the practice games are over, we will know who is playing what position, how well they can play and we will have a real sense as to how the season will unfold - the speculation and fantasizing will be over, and the 2022 NFL Dolphins will begin their season.

I currently have extremely high expectations for this team, but that expectation is not a limitation.

The Dolphins will show me all I need to know.

 

[phinking]

Aside from Tretter, who's still coveted, there are still a few RT out there...and it's nearly July.

Still available:

Daryl Williams (played RG and RT for Buffalo last year)
Eric Fisher (has played RT)
Bobby Massie

At some point, these guys are going to have to settle for what they can get, and the list of suitors is growing smaller. Fisher in particular interests me; he was coming off an Achilles tear last year, and I wonder what he'll do after another year removed from the injury.

Massie is crap.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Too often I see people argue that player x played some position in college or elsewhere so that must be his best position. IMO Eich is an example of that. Trait-wise he doesn’t fit at T in the NFL, yet I’ve seen many evals here and elsewhere (and by last years horrid OL coaching staff) projecting him to T, primarily b/c he played there in college. That’s not an evaluation based on traits.

I think you're right about Eichenberg. If A. Jackson fails at RT, it's because he's just not skilled enough. Eichenberg came out relatively refined and still struggled (a lot), because he's not built to play OT in the NFL. If forced to stay at OT, I think he'd improve, but his ceiling there is below-average starter, and, by contrast, he could be a very good OG.

 

[rafael]

I think you're right about Eichenberg. If A. Jackson fails at RT, it's because he's just not skilled enough. Eichenberg came out relatively refined and still struggled (a lot), because he's not built to play OT in the NFL. If forced to stay at OT, I think he'd improve, but his ceiling there is below-average starter, and, by contrast, he could be a very good OG.

Yeah, my general perception was that when Eich got beat on the outside, he basically did most things right but got beat physically. Coaching isn't going to fix that. But with AJ, he so often looked lost, he'd be out of position, have horrible hand placement, etc. Coaching can potentially fix that. It's not a given. He may not be smart enough or just never get it, but usually time and good coaching can get most to at least understand what they're supposed to do.

I do think that AJ is physically skilled enough. I want to say his RAS score tested in the elite range. That first year he wasn't bad. Not good but he was better in pass pro than Eich. It was clear he had the feet to get to spots that Eich didn't. AJ mostly lacked strength that first year. That wasn't surprising given the surgery and age. And reality is that most OL come in a bit under powered. That's why I never understood why they moved him to G. While good feet are valuable for pulling, you primarily want guys who can win in a phone booth. You want guys who are powerful enough to withstand bull rushing DTs/NTs and move those DTs/NTs to create run lanes with leverage and strength. Those aren't AJ's strengths. What made AJ a potentially elite prospect was that he had the feet at his size to match those speedy NFL DEs/LBs and RBs. You just had to teach him to get to the right spot, develop his strength to anchor there and teach him proper hand usage.

I thought last year's OL moves were too often nonsensical. Flowers, Davis AJ, Eich (and not drafting Creed Humphrey). It seemed to me that so many of the moves were the obviously wrong ones. I felt better when the new OL coaches started announcing changes that at least made sense to me.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Yeah, my general perception was that when Eich got beat on the outside, he basically did most things right but got beat physically. Coaching isn't going to fix that. But with AJ, he so often looked lost, he'd be out of position, have horrible hand placement, etc. Coaching can potentially fix that. It's not a given. He may not be smart enough or just never get it, but usually time and good coaching can get most to at least understand what they're supposed to do.

I do think that AJ is physically skilled enough. I want to say his RAS score tested in the elite range. That first year he wasn't bad. Not good but he was better in pass pro than Eich. It was clear he had the feet to get to spots that Eich didn't. AJ mostly lacked strength that first year. That wasn't surprising given the surgery and age. And reality is that most OL come in a bit under powered. That's why I never understood why they moved him to G. While good feet are valuable for pulling, you primarily want guys who can win in a phone booth. You want guys who are powerful enough to withstand bull rushing DTs/NTs and move those DTs/NTs to create run lanes with leverage and strength. Those aren't AJ's strengths. What made AJ a potentially elite prospect was that he had the feet at his size to match those speedy NFL DEs/LBs and RBs. You just had to teach him to get to the right spot, develop his strength to anchor there and teach him proper hand usage.

I thought last year's OL moves were too often nonsensical. Flowers, Davis AJ, Eich (and not drafting Creed Humphrey). It seemed to me that so many of the moves were the obviously wrong ones. I felt better when the new OL coaches started announcing changes that at least made sense to me.

Drafting Eichenberg with Cosmi on the board was brutal. The OL selections in general have been the most concerning aspect of this FO. Their two UDFA's have about as much promise (in this system) as Miami's Day 2 picks in recent years. This makes me think it's tied to a lack of direction from the offensive coaches. Flores had a clear vision for the D, and the FO hit on a good percentage of its defensive picks. Igbinoghene stands out in a bad way, but Wilkins, Holland, Phillips, and then guys like Van Ginkel and Jones is a lot of quality players in a short amount of time - especially given how many picks were spent on offense.

I think the FO is generally sharp when it comes to player evaluations, but poor vision from the coaching staff undermines a lot.

 

[Pacer]

I am pretty comfortable with the projected starting 5, and with Dieter as primary interior backup. Jones and Kindley can fight it out for the 4th guard spot. Little or Coleman might step up to be reliable backups at tackle but agree it wouldn't hurt to push them with one more serviceable veteran who has experience and a track record of availability. Not expecting any of the rookie linemen to make the roster.

 

[Ray R]

Drafting Eichenberg with Cosmi on the board was brutal. The OL selections in general have been the most concerning aspect of this FO. Their two UDFA's have about as much promise (in this system) as Miami's Day 2 picks in recent years. This makes me think it's tied to a lack of direction from the offensive coaches. Flores had a clear vision for the D, and the FO hit on a good percentage of its defensive picks. Igbinoghene stands out in a bad way, but Wilkins, Holland, Phillips, and then guys like Van Ginkel and Jones is a lot of quality players in a short amount of time - especially given how many picks were spent on offense.

I think the FO is generally sharp when it comes to player evaluations, but poor vision from the coaching staff undermines a lot.

I think you "hit the nail on the head" with your comparison of the FO's performance and the effect of HC's requests.

 

[GRYPHONK]

GRYPHONK looks forward to 8 years from now when we are all laughing about how we almost gave up on our 7 time All Pro RT A. Jackson.

The best part will be knowing he still would gave another good 3-5 years left.

Prove them wrong A jax

 

[Ray R]

GRYPHONK looks forward to 8 years from now when we are all laughing about how we almost gave up on our 7 time All Pro RT A. Jackson.

The best part will be knowing he still would gave another good 3-5 years left.

Prove them wrong A jax

That could be Tua you were writing about if you "centered" your position - LOL

 

[rafael]

Drafting Eichenberg with Cosmi on the board was brutal. The OL selections in general have been the most concerning aspect of this FO. Their two UDFA's have about as much promise (in this system) as Miami's Day 2 picks in recent years. This makes me think it's tied to a lack of direction from the offensive coaches. Flores had a clear vision for the D, and the FO hit on a good percentage of its defensive picks. Igbinoghene stands out in a bad way, but Wilkins, Holland, Phillips, and then guys like Van Ginkel and Jones is a lot of quality players in a short amount of time - especially given how many picks were spent on offense.

I think the FO is generally sharp when it comes to player evaluations, but poor vision from the coaching staff undermines a lot.

I think you're right about that. I hear people say the FO can't draft OL, but I believe that with the lack of continuity and the lack of offensive vision from the coaching, we don't have enough info to know that.

 

[Kyndig]

Be shocked if they were finished with the OL.
Rather see a upgrade at center over upgraded RT. Want Connor at LG not center and a strong middle line...
The staff seems to smart to let it slide considering the OL could ruin the season.

Gee, Daryl Williams a tackle that can play G makes unbelievable sense wish we could find one ( maybe one could drop right in our lap.... hint hint ). A RT and G if needed but we all know OL men are never injured (ya right)

Feel like Reason, in giving them the benefit of doubt til proven otherwise but it is taking an effort to believe our guys can handle it. And at minimum why take the risk ?

Hoping that when the pads are on in the NFL there will be some definite upgrades to pounce on and a bit surprised at those opportunities already passed, considering our cap opportunities... JMO and hopes....

The thing about playing Conner at center is that he was rated one of the top interior Olinemen in the league last year…when he wasn’t jumping off sides. So, if he’s snapping the ball, chances are that won’t be a problem anymore and if he picks up the nuances of the position, then he should be an upgrade at such an important position and problem solved. But, like most things, we have to see it on the field.

 

[cuzinvinny]

The thing about playing Conner at center is that he was rated one of the top interior Olinemen in the league last year…when he wasn’t jumping off sides. So, if he’s snapping the ball, chances are that won’t be a problem anymore and if he picks up the nuances of the position, then he should be an upgrade at such an important position and problem solved. But, like most things, we have to see it on the field.

Rated by who ? Would have to think the Rated was as a Guard... not looked at as Center (never played in NFL)
Fact, solid starting GUARD.... Center ? " So if he snapping the ball chances are that won't be a problem ", sounds very Dolphin Fan wishing, lacking fact to base evaluation either way.

To many "IF's" in your post for me to be comfortable with, a center the last several years needed and ignored.
IF snapping the ball won't be a problem, And wups its a unknown problem in question. You do know he never played center in the NFL.
IF he picks up the nuances, should be an upgrade, sadly just being in the right place almost makes him a upgrade. Oh more stuff to deal with at center besides who to block and staying on sides.

Yes, we will need to see it on the field, we acquired a talented LG and passed on center now moving that LG to Center and hoping to also fill the LG..... IF IF IF screw that get a upgrade Vet. center and stop all this IF If crap. We can do that !

We have a good LG Williams let him play his NFL position, Its really shouldn't be that difficult to understand...
But the Dolphins and OL has been a head scratching predicament for decades. Hope if finally will change, Armst. and Williams a great start don't screw it up, finish what has been started. cause a piss poor OL will screw up Everything.....not to even bring up backups which will also be needed at some point.

Just a seat filler in the Rock and I know it...mind blowing if the staff doesn't....... incredibly mind blowing...

 

[rafael]

IMO C is the most important position on the OL and trait-wise Williams is a natural C. Unless he can't snap there's no reason to believe that he won't be just as good if not better at C than G. And obviously, I would prefer to lock down the more important position with a great player. I don't see William's move to C as much of a risk or cause for concern.

I also think Eich is a natural G. I love his potential there. IMO it's much higher than it could ever be at T. I also am very comfortable bracketing the young G with vets on either side of him. That will ease his transition and help his long-term development. It makes our left side very strong.

The one thing I still expect to be added is a vet swing T. I like AJ at RT. And if the left side is strong it's easier to provide help as needed to the RT. My bigger concern is injury at either T spot. Injuries are always a concern and Armstead is coming off of one himself. I would prefer a guy who could swing to either side rather than a dedicated RT. Eich should not be an option to move to T as he's a horrid fit there in the NFL. I like Diesch's potential at T, but he's still a rookie. Unless he looks incredible in the preseason, I wouldn't feel comfortable with him as our only back-up plan at T. There are a few other guys with potential at T but realistically they are all what I would call long shots.

I don't think there's any reason to hurry here though. I don't see any "must have" swing T options out there. I suspect there may even be some surprise (better) options out there as teams cut down their rosters. And it gives us time to see Diesch or another surprises or alternatively if AJ is a disaster or we have some injuries. So while I anticipate the potential addition of a swing T for improved depth, I don't see any reason that it has to (or should) happen immediately.

 

[isaacjunk]

Drafting Eichenberg with Cosmi on the board was brutal. The OL selections in general have been the most concerning aspect of this FO. Their two UDFA's have about as much promise (in this system) as Miami's Day 2 picks in recent years. This makes me think it's tied to a lack of direction from the offensive coaches. Flores had a clear vision for the D, and the FO hit on a good percentage of its defensive picks. Igbinoghene stands out in a bad way, but Wilkins, Holland, Phillips, and then guys like Van Ginkel and Jones is a lot of quality players in a short amount of time - especially given how many picks were spent on offense.

I think the FO is generally sharp when it comes to player evaluations, but poor vision from the coaching staff undermines a lot.

That's been one of the great mysteries of our FO over the past 5 years. We've really drafted quite well except for OL -- clearly above average league-wide. Could be bad feedback loop from the coaches or a bad archetype the FO has in mind