Saban inherited a 4-12 team ! | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Saban inherited a 4-12 team !

Most rebuilding process involve trading away some good / high paid players when it all starts. It's called building a new foundation, and when half of you money is tied up in 10+ year veteran players, that's where you run into the trouble Saban did. Instead of trading them off, and taking that big cap hit two years ago, here we are today, still paying them and falling short of the playoffs..

What difference is ther in taking that large cap hit two years ago, as apposed to taking it this year?? The difference is those two players are literally on the verge of retirement now, and next year it will likely be too late to trade them at all....

Does anyone here recall the great Buffalo Bills defense of the 90's, and how not trading those players away when they past their prome hurt them in the long run??? Well just for arguments' sake, that's the same direction we're heading right now if we continue to rely on them being our only hope on defense....

People around here act like we can't survive without them....when in reality we can't survive with them....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

So you would rather trade away the "on the verge of retirement" Defensive MVP in exchange for draft picks that likely would never be in the MVP running? The draft is a crap shoot. Do you have an example of the successful team that traded away their aging stars in order to build for the future, and succeeded?
 
It is all the QB. Pennington and Losman are having good years for their teams. While the Dolphins were stuck with a still unhealthy DC and a first round bust in Joey-Joe-Joe. There was, sadly, more stability with Gus and Ricky in 05' than the offense has seen this year. The defense and the O-line are better now than in 05' if Jason Allen can step up next year and Daniels can stay healthy the D-backfield will be dramatically better in 07' than in 05'. Cross your fingers that DC can return to form, while hoping that Saban makes a second day QB pickup come April.

Mularky is a big question mark. I think he has been terrible this year, though he has been a very successful coordinator in the past, turning chicken s*** Kordell into chicken salad. How much of the problem was retaining Linehan's system versus letting Mularky do his own thing, or if more blame goes to the fact that our QB play has been crappy in every game except on thanksgiving. Unless Saban, or yourself, has a no-brainer OC pickup to make in the off season, we have to hope that Mularky and Culpepper can work hard in the offseason to right this ship.

I think we are in good hands with Saban, he is not god, he is not perfect, but I still have faith that the Dolphins are moving in the right direction.
Everything in your post is a conditional: if Jason Allen steps up, if Travis Daniels doesn't get hurt, if Mularkey improves. You could also add if Ronnie Brown plays a full season, if Chris Chambers finally lives up to his potential, or if Ricky comes back ready to play. And, of course, the biggest if of all: if Culpepper comes back healthy and performs well (since even if he is healthy nexy year it is no guarantee that he's going to play well).

I also disagree that the O-line has improved significantly, and while the defense is improved, it's due to older veterans who will be way over the hill by the time the offense is up to speed. If this season's performance on defense were due to Jason Allen, Matt Roth and the young d-linemen, then I would be enthusiastic about the future. But it's not. Aside from Crowder, the defensive stars are veteran free agents and people drafted by Jimmy Johnson a decade ago. It remains to be seen whether Saban's defensive picks can play to the same level-- another if.
 
Everything in your post is a conditional: if Jason Allen steps up, if Travis Daniels doesn't get hurt, if Mularkey improves. You could also add if Ronnie Brown plays a full season, if Chris Chambers finally lives up to his potential, or if Ricky comes back ready to play. And, of course, the biggest if of all: if Culpepper comes back healthy and performs well (since even if he is healthy nexy year it is no guarantee that he's going to play well).

I also disagree that the O-line has improved significantly, and while the defense is improved, it's due to older veterans who will be way over the hill by the time the offense is up to speed. If this season's performance on defense were due to Jason Allen, Matt Roth and the young d-linemen, then I would be enthusiastic about the future. But it's not. Aside from Crowder, the defensive stars are veteran free agents and people drafted by Jimmy Johnson a decade ago. It remains to be seen whether Saban's defensive picks can play to the same level-- another if.

The future is always a conditional, there are no guarantees.

I've offered up an admittedly optimistic view, but you offer nothing but pessimism, so I kinda had no choice. :wink:

And while you are here damning Saban for not having an immediate turnaround, you are also claiming that the defense will be over the hill before the offense turns it around. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Geniuses have been claiming that Thomas and Taylor are past their prime for 5 years now, while I have not seen anything on the field that convinces me of this. Is there any older starter on Saban's team that is a shadow of their prime years? Do these guys all get hurt a lot? No. While I'd love to see the young guys force the veterans into early retirement, the Dolphins are fielding the best 11 guys at a time. I can't complain about that.
 
I knew I wasn't as football savvy as I thought. We should never draft again!

:rolleyes:

Take a look at any 1st round class and tell me you want to trade Jason Taylor for a 30% chance that your team selects a suitable replacement. The draft is a crap shoot, despite being the best way to build a football team.
 
If Ricky plays in 04, that team wouldn't have lost anywhere near 12 games. I dont know if they would have made the playoffs...but not as bad as it turned out. Ricky retiring sunk that team before they ever set sail.
 
I am just not happy with how we have started each season, I think that it what bothers me the most. back to back years now Saban hasnt gotten this team ready in the offseason to make a splash day one. Somehow, he needs to get them firing on all cylinders in august, and that can only come with consistency on both sides of the ball. I am tired of this, "by game 13 we are the hottest team in football talk", but its too bad they lost seven out of the first ten or six out of the first seven. If he doesnt figure out how to do this, and get some consistency on both sides of the ball, he wont be our coach much longer anyways. Hopefully CPep can come back firing after a great summer, Brown is ready and stronger after holdn the rock by himself for a season, and jus maybe we can get something out of ricky again. Our wideouts and TE need alot of revamping though. Im done with chambers personally. No other "supposed" number one wideout hides on game day like he does. be it double teamed or what have you, other players are seeing the same things, but they make plays still. heres to a good offseason and some consistency on this team so Saban can get this team firing from day one.
 
Most rebuilding process involve trading away some good / high paid players when it all starts. It's called building a new foundation, and when half of you money is tied up in 10+ year veteran players, that's where you run into the trouble Saban did. Instead of trading them off, and taking that big cap hit two years ago, here we are today, still paying them and falling short of the playoffs..

What difference is ther in taking that large cap hit two years ago, as apposed to taking it this year?? The difference is those two players are literally on the verge of retirement now, and next year it will likely be too late to trade them at all....

I still stand by my original point. I'm not against trading JT or Zach, as long as you get fair value. Chances are, either two years ago or today, you won't get fair value because they're both over 30, and because they have ridiculous cap numbers. Since these guys are the heart and soul of the defense, and are great mentors to Roth and Crowder, it makes little sense to ship them out of town for a pair of 3rd rounders because that's just what 'rebuilding' is supposed to involve.

If you accept that they are invaluable teachers to some of the younger guys, then you would automatically threaten their development and the 'rebuilding' process by trading away veterans for peanuts.
 
The jury is still out on Saban. The Dante move was horrible.

What I want to know is why are there Bills fans chiming in on this? They are stuck with Dick Jauron...a proven loser. He isnt taking them anywhere either.:lol:
 
I know that we are in a transition period here, but I expect to see progression and not regression. I would have to say that we regressed quite a bit this year from last year. We all want the same thing here and that is for us to be part of the elite teams again.
 
Tell that to Sean Payton (New Orleans new coach)


I love this, one rookie head coach who happens to be having every possible thing bounce his way is now the standard for how quickly a franchise should be turned around.
 
I don't have emotional attachments to the Fins players, coaches, alum, etc. I don't fall in love with players or records. I don't care about the perfect season, Shula's wins, Marino's passing records. My favorite "All-time" Dolphins are always the ones on the current team (or not). If we are building towards a winner, I support that. If we are not building towards a winner, I support changing those in charge.

So you root for a uniform?

Absolutely...without question. If you took all of the current Fins players and traded them with every player from team X, I'd support all of the new Fins players and wouldn't give a damn about the former Fins players now with Team X.
 
Saban rolled the dice with Culpepper, and lost. If we had a healthy CP we would be looking at a different season. Or if we had started Harrington from week 1 we would be playoff bound. We need patience around here. The Bills have had patience with Losman, and it's paying off. He is going to end up being a solid qb IMO. Rome wasn't built in a day. Only 1 team a year wins it all, and this year clearly isn't our year. I believe Saban will get it turned around. We need more continuity going into next year, and we will have that. So lets kick some Jet butt, and enjoy our designated holidays.

You Saban supporters float these red herrings..."only one team a year wins it all, and this year clearly wasn't our year."

Ok. True enough.

But 12 teams a year make the playoffs....and we are already out of that, with two games left to play. This year CLEARLY isn't our year. We aren't even close. Being out of the playoffs with two games left is the problem, not that we aren't winning the SB.

I am sure there were some Saints fans that supported continuity with Haslett as well. But the new guy turned it around in a hurry. With the right head coach next year, we could win our division.

Imagine that. Going into the playoffs with a bye week...oh man, thats joy unspeakable.

But not us. We are going into week 15 thinking about "wait til next year".
 
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