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Saban's Drafts

cigar

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Surely its time to bash everything we know about Saban and turn on him like like a corrupted Jedi, but here's the skinny on Saban and his draftees.

Ronnie Brown - Best RB of the trio that year. Benson has yet to beat out T. Jones, and Brown has proven more durable, has a better all-around game and is more consistant than Cadillac. His vision has been knocked, but that will come with an imporved OL and more time reading the blocks in the backfield, rather than breaking them. Brown can break tackles, and can break away. This pick still stands as a solid pick at #2. The alternatives could have been Merriman, or Ware, but they were too far out of the box for Saban to reach for them @ #2 at that time.

Roth - Maybe the one knock on this draft. Roth was a bit undersized for a DE in Saban's scheme which puzzled me, but Roth plays fast and hard, and played under Kirk Ferentz's 3-4 system in Iowa. There was logic there. Remember, Saban wanted Corey Webster (starter in NY) but he went a pick earlier.

Crowder - He's a starter and a solid 3-4 LB physically. Any starter in the 3rd round is a good find. Saban gambled on Crowder's knees, but has proven wise to this point as Crowder would have gone much higher.

Daniels - Not sure if Saban would have drafted Daniels if he got Corey Webster in the 2nd, but regardless, Daniels is servicable and has the ability to start without being picked on. He's a good tackler, smart in the system, and most important, a 4th round starter.

Alabi - In later rounds, you draft for potential and upside to develop players. Its smart organizationally, both personnel wise and financially. Alabi was a good athlete at TCU, but lacked bulk. Hopefully Alabi can add bulk, but athletesism cant be taught in a big man. Can you fault Saban for picking a guy with upside at such an important position?

Vickerson - Another valuable big man that has proven he can stick to an NFL roster. Not bad for a 7th.

What is wrong with this draft? Did Saban blow any picks? Everyone is one the team and contributing in a capacity that would be expected of that draft position. Did Saban pass anyone up that we are kicking ourselves for like Wanny? Just cus this team is losing, doesn't mean Saban doesn't know personnel and should give up GM duties. Rome wasn't built in a day- if I may. The rule of thumb is you must have 2 starters from each draft, 3 is good, and 4 or more is excellent. Saban is right on course with 3, plus Roth might be starting next year with the potential loss of Holliday.

Dont want to start in on the 2006 draft because its sure to be inconclusive (as is the 2005 on to some extent). But to do a quicky
Jason Allen - unless he has zero football intelligence, he will be a starter next year
Cullpepper - is the future QB, for better or worse
Hagan - will at least contribute through his rookie contract
Toledo - dont know, but good physical criteria
M. Wright - Doesn't look good. But no busts in the 5th round.
Evans - Shown potential for a 7th rounder
R. Wright - Dont know, but good value in 7th
Aromashodu - gone - would have been a bonus.

2 sure starters (Which includes a QB!) with a lot of potential in rounds 3-7. Any team would be pleased with that. After watching Wannstedt blow pick after pick, Im extremely pleased with the new cycle of life that Saban is infliltrating through his drafts.

And before you start with "Saban blew the Culpepper deal", just stop for a minute and understand that the jury has yet to even deliberate on him. He is injured. The jury starts next year when he's healthy.
 
Amen brother, of course be ready to be crucified by many on this board that firmly believe Saban's drafts were both busts because we didn't come up with 14 JT/ZT type superstars. Saban has shown he's a shrewd draft pciker IMHO, and will ultimately prove out a winner. So opposite of Wannspiel who couldn't draft a San Marino even if they KNEW he would be a Dan Marino.
 
Its too early to properly evalute either of the drafts.

Its fun to debate them, and try to evaluate drafts, but let's all be honest here - you need more than 1-1/2 seasons to evaluate a draft. You just do.

That said, I love our 2005 draft. Ronnie's the real deal, as is Crowder. I'm happy with Daniels. I think he's done real well. The jury's still out on Roth and Alabi.
 
I think Saban is proving himself to be a great evaluater of talent. Nobody is going to hit all of the time (even in the first 3 rounds there will be some misses), but Saban has gottem plenty out of his picks from top to bottom.
 
Something Stinks.

Whenever we talk about how good the players are that we got in the recent drafts, we also have to realize that they are good in a relative sense. They are good in the context of the worst team in professional football. The question then becomes at the end of the year, if they were free agents, would they be able to be picked up by, and start on whichever team wins the Super Bowl. In other words, how good could they be?

The other way too look at it is that Saban is a great director of player personel, but a lousy professional coach. The case for that is simple. He thought he was going to win this year, else why do you trade for and start Daunte Culpepper? He has turned out to be completely wrong on this.

I'm a fan, I'm a huge fan, but when are we going to stop kidding ourselves? This is a DISASTER. It may indeed turn around and I certainly hope it does. Saban may get his act in gear and be the coach of the future. Culpepper may recover from the daze he is in and be the QB of the next 5-10 years and go to the Superbowl and Probowl too. Something has to change in the way we are drafting, signing free agents or coaching or all three for this to happen.
 
cigar said:
Surely its time to bash everything we know about Saban and turn on him like like a corrupted Jedi, but here's the skinny on Saban and his draftees.

Ronnie Brown - Best RB of the trio that year. Benson has yet to beat out T. Jones, and Brown has proven more durable, has a better all-around game and is more consistant than Cadillac. His vision has been knocked, but that will come with an imporved OL and more time reading the blocks in the backfield, rather than breaking them. Brown can break tackles, and can break away. This pick still stands as a solid pick at #2. The alternatives could have been Merriman, or Ware, but they were too far out of the box for Saban to reach for them @ #2 at that time.

Roth - Maybe the one knock on this draft. Roth was a bit undersized for a DE in Saban's scheme which puzzled me, but Roth plays fast and hard, and played under Kirk Ferentz's 3-4 system in Iowa. There was logic there. Remember, Saban wanted Corey Webster (starter in NY) but he went a pick earlier.

Crowder - He's a starter and a solid 3-4 LB physically. Any starter in the 3rd round is a good find. Saban gambled on Crowder's knees, but has proven wise to this point as Crowder would have gone much higher.

Daniels - Not sure if Saban would have drafted Daniels if he got Corey Webster in the 2nd, but regardless, Daniels is servicable and has the ability to start without being picked on. He's a good tackler, smart in the system, and most important, a 4th round starter.

Alabi - In later rounds, you draft for potential and upside to develop players. Its smart organizationally, both personnel wise and financially. Alabi was a good athlete at TCU, but lacked bulk. Hopefully Alabi can add bulk, but athletesism cant be taught in a big man. Can you fault Saban for picking a guy with upside at such an important position?

Vickerson - Another valuable big man that has proven he can stick to an NFL roster. Not bad for a 7th.

What is wrong with this draft? Did Saban blow any picks? Everyone is one the team and contributing in a capacity that would be expected of that draft position. Did Saban pass anyone up that we are kicking ourselves for like Wanny? Just cus this team is losing, doesn't mean Saban doesn't know personnel and should give up GM duties. Rome wasn't built in a day- if I may. The rule of thumb is you must have 2 starters from each draft, 3 is good, and 4 or more is excellent. Saban is right on course with 3, plus Roth might be starting next year with the potential loss of Holliday.

Dont want to start in on the 2006 draft because its sure to be inconclusive (as is the 2005 on to some extent). But to do a quicky
Jason Allen - unless he has zero football intelligence, he will be a starter next year
Cullpepper - is the future QB, for better or worse
Hagan - will at least contribute through his rookie contract
Toledo - dont know, but good physical criteria
M. Wright - Doesn't look good. But no busts in the 5th round.
Evans - Shown potential for a 7th rounder
R. Wright - Dont know, but good value in 7th
Aromashodu - gone - would have been a bonus.

2 sure starters (Which includes a QB!) with a lot of potential in rounds 3-7. Any team would be pleased with that. After watching Wannstedt blow pick after pick, Im extremely pleased with the new cycle of life that Saban is infliltrating through his drafts.

And before you start with "Saban blew the Culpepper deal", just stop for a minute and understand that the jury has yet to even deliberate on him. He is injured. The jury starts next year when he's healthy.


FINALLY!!!! Some sanity & logic prevails.
 
Thats a very good post, Cigar and it mirrors my opinion.

Those are the kind of posts we have in VIP.If you get tired of the inane bashing we would be happy to have you there.

Not that its all wine and roses in there but at least the negative posts are backed up by rational arguments.
 
i think they bought too much into last years 9 game win streak and pretended the Pats didn't play their backups most of the game and get slapped in the face by a dropkick FG at the end of the game.

I think they REALLY thought all we needed as a slightly better QB and a secondary that could just tackle a bit more.

Unfortunately....they apparently mistook our OLine for improving when Gus actually threw out of the shotgun most of the time and threw quick passes which made them look better then they are. And while Booker is a decent receiver...he should be #3 on our depth chart, CC should be #2 and a more talented receiver should be #1. Instead of spending money and a #2 pick for Culpepper and a 5th-6th from this year for Harrington they should have used that money to improve the Oline...keep the #2 pick last year and 5th-6th this year, and kept Gus and Cleo on.

Instead....our OLine still sucks, we've tied up money and picks in QB that are mediocre, our 2ndary isn't really improved, our Dline is a year closer to the retirement home, our LB core isn't solid.....and we're 1-6.

Saban's made some decent draft picks thus far but it would have been nice to have the #2 last draft and an extra 5th-6th in this years. He needs to trade off some of our older more expensive players for some picks, drop our cap down (so we can play in the FA market for O/Dline help) and start picking some younger cheaper talent that will actually provide us with a future!

He's trying to build a "future" here yet all we're doing is trying to piece-part something together around a bunch of old players by paying lots of $ and trading picks away for players seriously injured or not wanted by other teams...in the hopes the stars will align and we'll actually improve. Bad philosiphy.

Good summary by the way :)
 
Ronnie --> good to very good
Daniels --> avg, injured
Crowder --> avg, w/ some upside
Jason Allen --> no contribution
Roth --> minimal contribution
Vickerson --> no contribution
Alabi --> no contribution
Fred Evans --> no contribution
Rod Wright --> no contribution, injured
Joe Toledo --> no contribution, injured

The jury is still out, but that's a lot of players on the team from his drafts that are not contributing. I realize there are some reasons for this. I realize that maybe next year, many of these players may be starters.

But, when you are 1-6, and most of 2 years worth of draft choices are NOT contributing, you are gonna get some (well deserved) flak.

Again, in a few years, we may look at these as great drafts. Not right now.

There are better teams getting more contribution out of their draft picks than us.
 
In my humble opinion, Roth is the worst pick out of the 2 drafts. He's undersized and has short arms. He won't pan out because he lacks the physical ability to make it in this league. The rest have great upside I believe.
 
Right on the mark.

Marino420TD said:
"...when you are 1-6, and most of 2 years worth of draft choices are NOT contributing, you are gonna get some (well deserved) flak."
Ditto.
 
cigar said:
Surely its time to bash everything we know about Saban and turn on him like like a corrupted Jedi, but here's the skinny on Saban and his draftees.

Ronnie Brown - Best RB of the trio that year. Benson has yet to beat out T. Jones, and Brown has proven more durable, has a better all-around game and is more consistant than Cadillac. His vision has been knocked, but that will come with an imporved OL and more time reading the blocks in the backfield, rather than breaking them. Brown can break tackles, and can break away. This pick still stands as a solid pick at #2. The alternatives could have been Merriman, or Ware, but they were too far out of the box for Saban to reach for them @ #2 at that time.

Roth - Maybe the one knock on this draft. Roth was a bit undersized for a DE in Saban's scheme which puzzled me, but Roth plays fast and hard, and played under Kirk Ferentz's 3-4 system in Iowa. There was logic there. Remember, Saban wanted Corey Webster (starter in NY) but he went a pick earlier.

Crowder - He's a starter and a solid 3-4 LB physically. Any starter in the 3rd round is a good find. Saban gambled on Crowder's knees, but has proven wise to this point as Crowder would have gone much higher.

Daniels - Not sure if Saban would have drafted Daniels if he got Corey Webster in the 2nd, but regardless, Daniels is servicable and has the ability to start without being picked on. He's a good tackler, smart in the system, and most important, a 4th round starter.

Alabi - In later rounds, you draft for potential and upside to develop players. Its smart organizationally, both personnel wise and financially. Alabi was a good athlete at TCU, but lacked bulk. Hopefully Alabi can add bulk, but athletesism cant be taught in a big man. Can you fault Saban for picking a guy with upside at such an important position?

Vickerson - Another valuable big man that has proven he can stick to an NFL roster. Not bad for a 7th.

What is wrong with this draft? Did Saban blow any picks? Everyone is one the team and contributing in a capacity that would be expected of that draft position. Did Saban pass anyone up that we are kicking ourselves for like Wanny? Just cus this team is losing, doesn't mean Saban doesn't know personnel and should give up GM duties. Rome wasn't built in a day- if I may. The rule of thumb is you must have 2 starters from each draft, 3 is good, and 4 or more is excellent. Saban is right on course with 3, plus Roth might be starting next year with the potential loss of Holliday.

Dont want to start in on the 2006 draft because its sure to be inconclusive (as is the 2005 on to some extent). But to do a quicky
Jason Allen - unless he has zero football intelligence, he will be a starter next year
Cullpepper - is the future QB, for better or worse
Hagan - will at least contribute through his rookie contract
Toledo - dont know, but good physical criteria
M. Wright - Doesn't look good. But no busts in the 5th round.
Evans - Shown potential for a 7th rounder
R. Wright - Dont know, but good value in 7th
Aromashodu - gone - would have been a bonus.

2 sure starters (Which includes a QB!) with a lot of potential in rounds 3-7. Any team would be pleased with that. After watching Wannstedt blow pick after pick, Im extremely pleased with the new cycle of life that Saban is infliltrating through his drafts.

And before you start with "Saban blew the Culpepper deal", just stop for a minute and understand that the jury has yet to even deliberate on him. He is injured. The jury starts next year when he's healthy.

Jason Allen- DEFINITE starter next year. I have a fairly good feeling he is gonna make those of you labeling him a bust eat copious amounts of crow, just like all those steelers fans did labeling the Troy Polomau pick a bust when he didn't play a single game his first year.
Derek Hagan- Right now my money is on him being our number 2 guy next year if he keeps playing the way he has. I can almost guarantee either Booker or Chambers are gone next year (Most likely booker).
Joe Toledo- Unless we sign a big name FA to guard next year, he is a DEFINITE starter next year (assuming he can for once in his life stay healthy for more than 1/2 a season:cry: ) I think he is gonna be another Mark Dixon, plays GREAT when healthy but.......well.....almost NEVER healthy. But if he can stay healthy, he could turn out to be the steal of the draft.
Manny Wright- jury is still out. If he can get that small noggin of his fixed, he could be a very good player and could become a starter. IMO he was worth the risk for a 5th rd. pick.
Fred Evans- for a 7th round player this guy is REALLY GOOD!!!! Don't know if he'll make the probowl or anything, but worse case scenario is that this guy makes a very good backup DT. Just having a 7th rounder make your team is one hell of an accomplishment.
Rod Wright- Before his shoulder problems surfaced, he was considered one of the top 3-5 DT's going into the draft. The true value of this pick is more likely to be evident in 2008 rather than 2007, as it is gonna take him a while to heal up, regain his upperbody strength, and a bout a season of playing to get more full acclimatedy to going up against nfl opponents, if we are LUCKY, he'll shine in 2007. But great pick for a 7th rounder and a great demonstration of patience on Saban's behalf, knowing that in 2 years this guy could start to look special.
Devin Aromashaedwdweiohfwo....or however you spell it....what can you say, win some lose some.
Marcus Vick- Yes, I KNOW he wasn't drafted, but Saban DID sign him, and he IS part of the 53 man roster. This was really a no-risk pickup and Saban seems to be handling him well, so far anyway.
 
dominizzo said:
I think Roth is great!! HEs just not given the oppurtunity to play

If he was any good he would play. This ain't his first year. He's been healthy from jump and can't even smell the field. He'd probably be a decent back up but he was probably picked way too high for what he's worth.
 
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