Should Miami's 3-4 be changed to a 4-3? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Should Miami's 3-4 be changed to a 4-3?

redclamcrowder

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I know there are a number of posters here who think the 3-4 is the only way for Miami to run a defense(citing that we do not have the personel to run any other defense among other reasons). IMHO, I think Miami needs to do one of two things:
(1) Change our defensive philosophy and bring the heat similiar to what that Fat ******* up in NY does (or even run an attacking 3-4 like up in Pittsburgh). OR.....
(2) Begin to convert this roster into a 4-3 defense.

My reasoning -->

Why is Miami afraid to leave its young secondary on an island in the event it decides to bring an all-out blitz? Are they worried a big play might result against the defense? It's hard to get any worse than what this defense has already become in terms of giving up big plays. There is no legitimate reason this team should not attempt to 'sell-out' hard on defense at least a FEW times a game. At worst, we continue to give up big plays. At best, we increase sack totals and/or force opposing QB's into picks, bad throws, or simply make them eat turf!

One of the 3-4's most endearing traits is that it is easier to disguise the pass rush in order to confuse an offense. What about our defense confuses an offense? This defense constantly shows its 'hand' to the offense, allowing for easy blitz pick-ups (assuming they actually end up blitzing of course). There is no element of surprise to this Dolphin defense, none!

Ok, so why do I want a 4-3? I know right now it seems that we don't have ALL of the necessary personnel to run it. I look at it like this: Sparano is calling out his pass rush (of 3,4, or 5 guys typically) to get to the QB. If he and his staff continue to think that only sending 3-4 guys at a time is enough (and blitzing isn't very necessary) Miami will continue to get burned. We are running a defense that isn't taking advantage of its own strengths. If Sparano only wants to send 3-4 rushers at a time (5-6 max) he should convert the defense into a 4-3 which will feature more athletic pass rushers from the defensive line. Guys like Starks, Langford, and Solai are solid men to put upfront in the 3-4, but are not to be used as pass-rush specialists. I just think that guys like Merling, Crowder, and other players would benefit from the switch to 4-3 in the future, and Miami might be able to generate more passrush from that formation with the proper personnel.
 
All out blitzing is all out stupid.

If you can't put pressure on the quarterback without blitzing, you need new personnel.

A blitz should only come from the blind side occasionally when you have good coverage corners.

We have terrible corners and worse safeties. Blitzing only makes us vulnerable.

What we need to do is get some massive NT in there, get at least one competent safety, one shut down corner, one stud LB and 3 speedy LBs.

The 3-4, with simply competent personnel, should shut down a passing game. With a good NT, it will seriously hamstring a running game.
 
All out blitzing is all out stupid.

If you can't put pressure on the quarterback without blitzing, you need new personnel.

A blitz should only come from the blind side occasionally when you have good coverage corners.

We have terrible corners and worse safeties. Blitzing only makes us vulnerable.

What we need to do is get some massive NT in there, get at least one competent safety, one shut down corner, one stud LB and 3 speedy LBs.

The 3-4, with simply competent personnel, should shut down a passing game. With a good NT, it will seriously hamstring a running game.

No, all-out blitzing isn't stupid. There are appropriate times and places to send 8 man rushes (play a safety as a centerfielder and the two corners play a zone to keep everything in front of them). We do not have the proper players to run the 3-4 to perfection. As such, we need to generate pressure in creative ways. Rushing 3-4 guys at a time isn't doing it for this team. As much as I like Starks/Merling/Langford/Solai/Porter/Taylor, they cannot generate consistent pressure on their own. This defense needs to bring the heat to cover for its deficiencies. Getting no pressure and asking our rookies in the secondary to cover for an extended amount of time is stupid. We already have average coverage abilities. Even with excellent CB's/S's back there, we wouldn't be able to cover anyone with how long opposing QB's have to throw.

I think you missed the point of my post all-together. I said if Miami refuses to do scenario A (which was dial up more blitzing) they need to consider scenario B (a change to a different defense, particularly the 4-3 defense). A 4-3 is the perfect defense for coaches who want to only send 4 man rushes on a regular basis. Those 4 down linemen would typically be good gap rushers and/or are more athletic (in terms of pass-rush ability) than their 3-4 counterparts.

Obviously what Miami is doing right now isn't working, and I'm just a little peeved that our coaching staff would rather stand by what isn't working as opposed to doing what they did last year with the offense (i.e., implementing the WildCat) and be creative/innovative. Again I stress that I am aware they do not have the players to just switch to a 4-3. However, I think it should be a move the Dolphins at least CONSIDER for the future.
 
Not that it matters but I like a 4-3. It is hard to find players that fit into a 3-4 and it is still harder now that so many teams are trying to run it.

On the other hand, what you need for a 4-3 is several really good defensive lineman. I liked back with Saban when we had a 8 man rotation on our defensive line and that is what the Giants did to the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
 
I thought the coaches and players made a good point that right now we're not winning any 1 on 1 battles and that's the biggest problem.

To go to a 4/3 maybe an issue with no true MLB and no field general at safety.

I think Geo has it right, we need to improve/change the personel to improve.
 
Another point I forgot to mention in my first post.... With the number of teams running the 3-4 increasing dramatically, the competition to acquire the best players to run it (whether via Free Agency or the Draft) is also going up. It will become more difficult to land that premiere pass-rushing OLB (i.e., DeMarcus Ware, Shawn Merriman, Lamar Woodley, etc) or a big-time NT (especially when you consider not every big-a** that plays DT can play NT, it limits the options at that position).
 
I agree with you but I don't think a BP team will run a 4-3 as it's base. I saw them use a 4-3 at times against NE but only because I'm sure Fergy was out and we have no real back up for Soliai. We actually have a DL more suited to a 4-3 if you consider Starks and McDaniel are 4-3 men and could be used as DT's. You could then put Langford and Merling out there at DE and have a pretty good young DL. Best part would be you would get rid of a LB since I still say we have the worst set of LB's in the NFL.
 
No. We don't need to change to a 4-3, we just need better personnel.

Can't revamp the ENTIRE defense in one or two years. LB's will be this year, and with another year under our ROOKIE secondaries belt, then we can see if this defense is going to be any good.
 
I thought the coaches and players made a good point that right now we're not winning any 1 on 1 battles and that's the biggest problem.

To go to a 4/3 maybe an issue with no true MLB and no field general at safety.

I think Geo has it right, we need to improve/change the personel to improve.

I don't know if he has the coverage skills to make the switch effective, but Bell would be our 'general' at safety. Also, and I may catch flak for this, but I think Channing Crowder would be an excellent LB in the 4-3, though I'm not sure he would play the MLB position. Even so, it is harder to find the right linebackers to put into a 3-4 than in a 4-3. It would not be difficult to bring in an above-average to excellent MLB to play if we switched to the 4-3.

I do agree with Geo to an extent about changing the personel, but this task is even harder with the 3-4 than the 4-3 (due to the special nature of certain positions) AND because of the increasing competition for 3-4 specialty players.
 
Not that it matters but I like a 4-3. It is hard to find players that fit into a 3-4 and it is still harder now that so many teams are trying to run it.

On the other hand, what you need for a 4-3 is several really good defensive lineman. I liked back with Saban when we had a 8 man rotation on our defensive line and that is what the Giants did to the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

I would LOVE if Miami adopted an attacking 4-3 defense like the Giants (and even the Eagles) run. Spagnuolo ran an awesome defense (influenced by the late Jim Johnson of course, RIP) during the G-men's big win over New England in the SuperBowl. Also, I agree about Saban's defense when he was here. As much as he's a headcase and has WAY too big of an ego, I bet if Saban was our DC we'd have a better record at this point in time. The man just knew how to utilize his defense.
 
I would LOVE if Miami adopted an attacking 4-3 defense like the Giants (and even the Eagles) run.

I dunno, man. The Giants and the Eagles just defensed themselves out of the top spot in their division. They've lost it to a flailing, confused Cowboys. At the rate the Giants are going, the Skins will pull ahead of them.

Ok, that wasn't nice. ;)
 
I agree with you but I don't think a BP team will run a 4-3 as it's base. I saw them use a 4-3 at times against NE but only because I'm sure Fergy was out and we have no real back up for Soliai. We actually have a DL more suited to a 4-3 if you consider Starks and McDaniel are 4-3 men and could be used as DT's. You could then put Langford and Merling out there at DE and have a pretty good young DL. Best part would be you would get rid of a LB since I still say we have the worst set of LB's in the NFL.

you're right about the LB core... we would def. need to upgrade the quality and type of LB if we made a switch to 3-4... as I posted in this thread, I think Channing Crowder would benefit from this switch tremendously... I forgot to mention that I think Reggie Torbor would benefit as well being back in a more natural defense for his skillset (I think J.D. Folsom and his good athleticism would be put to good use as well)... also agreed on the four man front of Merling/McDaniel/Starks/Langford. This unit would need more depth and another good player or two, but I think they would be a very stout front 4 TO START WITH (and improve over time)... I guess I'm in a minority about the switch, but seeing as Paul Pasq. and the rest of the coaching staff don't seem to want to make adjustments to something that really isn't working right now, I don't understand why the idea isn't at least considered more... either you improve your approach on defense (assuming of course you have difficulty upgrading the current roster you possess), or you decide that maybe another defensive alignment would be better
 
I dunno, man. The Giants and the Eagles just defensed themselves out of the top spot in their division. They've lost it to a flailing, confused Cowboys. At the rate the Giants are going, the Skins will pull ahead of them.

Ok, that wasn't nice. ;)

Giants only gave up 21 points to a good San Diego offense. Overall (as a rule) the defense has usually been their strongest asset (along with their running attack). I think Manning and the offense are the biggest issue for the G-men.

As for the Eagles, well, living in PA, I can honestly tell you they're just following the Philadelphia sports mantra (inconsistency is everything and big games don't count! :lol:). The other thing is that Philly is EXTREMELY thin at LB right now (lost Bradley, Gaither, Gocong, and eventually Jordan last night) and that affects a defense like theirs. Also, lets not lose sight of the fact that losing Jim Johnson is something that doesn't show up on gameday (at least not obviously) but is felt over the whole season. The guy who took his spot (McDermont?) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the caliber of d-coordinator that Johnson was, and that does make a difference.

My point should be this: I like the SCHEME the Giants and Eagles run (and I assume the Rams do under Spags. as well). Whether or not that scheme is run to perfection (or in some instances CALLED well) is irrelevant. I believe that kind of 4-3 defense is a good choice to run (just my opinion obviously).
 
you're right about the LB core... we would def. need to upgrade the quality and type of LB if we made a switch to 3-4... as I posted in this thread, I think Channing Crowder would benefit from this switch tremendously... I forgot to mention that I think Reggie Torbor would benefit as well being back in a more natural defense for his skillset (I think J.D. Folsom and his good athleticism would be put to good use as well)... also agreed on the four man front of Merling/McDaniel/Starks/Langford. This unit would need more depth and another good player or two, but I think they would be a very stout front 4 TO START WITH (and improve over time)... I guess I'm in a minority about the switch, but seeing as Paul Pasq. and the rest of the coaching staff don't seem to want to make adjustments to something that really isn't working right now, I don't understand why the idea isn't at least considered more... either you improve your approach on defense (assuming of course you have difficulty upgrading the current roster you possess), or you decide that maybe another defensive alignment would be better


too many similar players IMO.

i'd try Roth - Ferguson - Starks - Taylor
then mix it up based on down and distance.
 
Perhaps the reason Tony & Paul don't get more exotic w/ the defensive play calling is there are 2 rookie CB's and substandard play from the FS position?

I'm no fan of the typical Pittsburgh style 3-4... I did like the 3-4 based on speed that Marty Schottenheimer ran back in the day w/ the Chiefs.
 
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