Sign Manziel? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Sign Manziel?

finsgonewild said:
He went off the rails because he didn't get the help he needed. He got help and is a different person now. No one is perfect, especially a lot of the players in the NFL. What harm is there in letting him compete against Osweiler for the backup spot?
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If Miami parted ways with "me" players, what in the world makes your cause even remotely plausible?

Manziel like Dez Bryant are man babies. Let him go to the CFL and play for peanuts for a few years. Let a team like the Jets or Bill's take that leap. Miami has enough freaking issues.
 
ANUFan said:
"Was waiting for a Kaepernick sympathizer to come out and beat that drum"

^^^^Let's start with exactly what does this part of what you wrote mean?


Also, If anything, you highlighted my point exactly. Which strongly suggest based on the current state of those two players and their involvement/participation with NFL teams what kind of behavior is "okay" and what is "not okay."

Moreover, if you put forth those two players resume of "incidences" starting from college throughout their professional playing days, it's even more alarming! One player through it all is being given, it would appear, yet another chance! While the other player would be lucky to even get a workout.

Being completely unbiased and just looking at the two situations, imo, it's pretty disturbing.

So I ask you once more, exactly what "drum" did I beat? Putting the facts on the table and saying, "Hey that's strange!" Certainly, no one that's being fair would ever say, "Manziel is that much better at the QB position than Kap!"
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No...it's not "strange" at all if you look at it from a business viewpoint and from that perspective it has nothing to do with nor does it matter whether Manziel is better than Kaepernick or not, nor who deserves a chance over the other. You're missing the point here entirely....which is that while a majority of the sports watching or sports knowledgeable public may think Manziel is an idiot or man-child with his hi-jinks, no one really cares enough to make them boycott a team, not watch NFL games or protest against his hiring because of his own stupid stunts. And, many people who are not into sports don't have a clue as to who he is nor do they really care....the majority of Americans know who Kaepernick is and not just for sports reasons. His notoriety to the overall public is as a protestor/anthem kneeler who creates much public & political divisiveness in his wake....there are clear, strong opinions & disagreements about him and people who have & will stop supporting a team (or the NFL as a whole as we have seen in the past) fan-wise & monetarily if he is hired.....as much their right as his is to kneel, protest,etc.

People aren't NOT going to tune in or boycott the NFL if Manziel is hired as a QB somewhere. Not only that, opposed to Manziel who is really a football/sports story, Kaepernick is a political/national story who is discussed by many non-sports media outlets, channels, talk shows and political forums. Manziel might get a mention on Espn/Nfl Network......Kaepernick gets discussed on not only those channels but CNN, Fox, Msnbc, ABC Nightline, etc. as well as a lot of ink in newpapers & magazines , many, if not the majority (hell, the Wall St Journal, the Economist and others did major stories on Kaepernick), having nothing to do with sports.
 
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wow, people have lost their mind thinking of signing Manziel....he had his golden opportunity and he squandered it with his douchebag diva personality that didn't match up with his QB talent....so Manziel runs for 2 scores against scrubs who wont make an NFL roster or even practice squad and we should sign Jonny....lmfao, hell to the NO!
 
Phinsguy said:
No...it's not "strange" at all if you look at it from a business viewpoint and from that perspective it has nothing to do with nor does it matter whether Manziel is better than Kaepernick or not, nor who deserves a chance over the other. You're missing the point here entirely....which is that while a majority of the sports watching or sports knowledgeable public may think Manziel is an idiot or man-child with his hi-jinks, no one really cares enough to make them boycott a team, not watch NFL games or protest against his hiring because of his own stupid stunts. And, many people who are not into sports don't have a clue as to who he is nor do they really care.

Not so with Kaepernick.....there are clear, strong opinions & disagreements about him and people who have & will stop supporting a team (or the NFL as a whole as we have seen in the past) fan-wise & monetarily if he is hired.....as much their right as his is to kneel, protest,etc. People aren't NOT going to tune in or boycott the NFL if Manziel is hired as a QB somewhere. Not only that, opposed to Manziel who is really a football/sports story, Kaepernick is a political/national story who is discussed by many non-sports media outlets, channels, talk shows and political forums. Manziel might get a mention on Espn/Nfl Network......Kaepernick gets discussed on not only those channels but CNN, Fox, Msnbc, ABC Nightline, etc. as well as a lot of ink in newpapers & magazines , many, if not the majority (hell, the Wall St Journal, the Economist and others did major stories on Kaepernick), having nothing to do with sports.
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Oh, I think we can look at it from both viewpoints and using your business paradigm I see the following tale:

As long as what you do doesn't cost my business $$$$ then it's "okay."
That's the raw, succinct, version.
Now, Think about the board spectrum of characteristics and composition that can encompass.

Additionally, I suppose, you're right implying "strange" is a relative term. Afterall, there have been places where you could burn 100s of people alive and it's not considered "strange." Business as usual!


It's strange to me that taking a knee against "perceived" social injustice from a "business standpoint" is far worse than "alleged" bouts of domestic violence amongst other things.

Nothing to derive further here. Just one person's thoughts and observation.
 
Have you been sleeping through the entire offseason. We cut tons of talent due to character issues. Johnny football can go play up in Hamilton.
 
finsgonewild said:
I say why not give him a chance. He has shown that he still has the ability in the spring training league and he has taken the necessary steps to combat against his diagnosed bipolar disorder. Manziel has a lot of talent and I think it is worth giving him a shot. We might be waiting to see how the draft goes before picking someone like him up, but we can't wait for too long. He has a contract with a CFL league and must make a determination within about a month. If he chooses to play for CFL league he commit to the league for 2 years. Anyways, I say why not give the guy a chance. At the very least he provides competition for the backup QB spot.
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1) I say why not give him a chance. This is the wrong approach. The question should be "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

2) He has shown that he still has the ability in the spring training league ... This conflicts with everything I've seen written about that spring league. I recall the writer said there were still a lot of problems and that he only showed he had some of the basics working. The writer felt it would take some time for him to get back to where he was when he was drafted.

3) ... he has taken the necessary steps to combat against his diagnosed bipolar disorder. This may be true, but it does not address the basic question and answer - "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "They have the skill set, the football intellect, are grinders and make good teammates.". Addressing a disorder is important to just be at a basic level of personal reliability. It doesn't address what he can do as a QB, which should be our most important consideration.

4) Manziel has a lot of talent... Not that he demonstrated on the field during his very short NFL career.

5) ... and I think it is worth giving him a shot. An opinion that does not address the question "Why should we give .... a chance?".

6) At the very least he provides competition for the backup QB spot. We already have higher levels of competition in place with more successful NFL experience. Why would we add a "less experienced or capable QB to this mix? My opinion is that I do not think he is as ready as any of the QB's in the 2018 draft to address the question & answer requirements for "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

Mr. Manziel does have a chance in the CFL. If he is successful there, then he will qualify to the question & answer "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

My question to you is: are you afraid he won't get back into the NFL when he demonstrates his QB ability in the CFL?
 
Like Kaep, i think the media circus just isnt worth the player, otherwise kaep would be signed for sure and Manziel might be worth a shot at least. He did do some things on the field in Cleveland even while partying and acting the fool otherwise.
 
finmann said:
This is America jack, everyone deserves a second chance, if he's gotten the help he needs and is a changed person why not? the concern is can he play QB for the Miami Dolphins?
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When you put it like that...










Nope
 
He definitely deserves a 2nd chance, in a league where woman beaters, DUI man slaughter, crab takers get second chances i dont see why Manziel shouldn't...just not here. There way too many cocaine and hookers.
 
Phinsguy said:
No...it's not "strange" at all if you look at it from a business viewpoint and from that perspective it has nothing to do with nor does it matter whether Manziel is better than Kaepernick or not, nor who deserves a chance over the other. You're missing the point here entirely....which is that while a majority of the sports watching or sports knowledgeable public may think Manziel is an idiot or man-child with his hi-jinks, no one really cares enough to make them boycott a team, not watch NFL games or protest against his hiring because of his own stupid stunts. And, many people who are not into sports don't have a clue as to who he is nor do they really care....the majority of Americans know who Kaepernick is and not just for sports reasons. His notoriety to the overall public is as a protestor/anthem kneeler who creates much public & political divisiveness in his wake....there are clear, strong opinions & disagreements about him and people who have & will stop supporting a team (or the NFL as a whole as we have seen in the past) fan-wise & monetarily if he is hired.....as much their right as his is to kneel, protest,etc.

People aren't NOT going to tune in or boycott the NFL if Manziel is hired as a QB somewhere. Not only that, opposed to Manziel who is really a football/sports story, Kaepernick is a political/national story who is discussed by many non-sports media outlets, channels, talk shows and political forums. Manziel might get a mention on Espn/Nfl Network......Kaepernick gets discussed on not only those channels but CNN, Fox, Msnbc, ABC Nightline, etc. as well as a lot of ink in newpapers & magazines , many, if not the majority (hell, the Wall St Journal, the Economist and others did major stories on Kaepernick), having nothing to do with sports.
Click to expand...

ANUFan said:
Oh, I think we can look at it from both viewpoints and using your business paradigm I see the following tale:

As long as what you do doesn't cost my business $$$$ then it's "okay."
That's the raw, succinct, version.
Now, Think about the board spectrum of characteristics and composition that can encompass.

Additionally, I suppose, you're right implying "strange" is a relative term. Afterall, there have been places where you could burn 100s of people alive and it's not considered "strange." Business as usual!


It's strange to me that taking a knee against "perceived" social injustice from a "business standpoint" is far worse than "alleged" bouts of domestic violence amongst other things.

Nothing to derive further here. Just one person's thoughts and observation.
Click to expand...

Its nice to see this kind of discussion being held in such a respectful way, its a prettty rare occurrence. :thumbsup

I think its pretty obvious why Manziel might get a 2nd chance and why Kap might not. It might not be fair, but Kap had to know what he was getting into, given that he's middle of the pac, ability wise. Elite players might make it difficult for teams to completely blackball them, average players might want to wait until their playing days are over before getting that sort of attention. Again, not saying its fair, but you have to be realistic...

Ray R said:
1) I say why not give him a chance. This is the wrong approach. The question should be "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

2) He has shown that he still has the ability in the spring training league ... This conflicts with everything I've seen written about that spring league. I recall the writer said there were still a lot of problems and that he only showed he had some of the basics working. The writer felt it would take some time for him to get back to where he was when he was drafted.

3) ... he has taken the necessary steps to combat against his diagnosed bipolar disorder. This may be true, but it does not address the basic question and answer - "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "They have the skill set, the football intellect, are grinders and make good teammates.". Addressing a disorder is important to just be at a basic level of personal reliability. It doesn't address what he can do as a QB, which should be our most important consideration.

4) Manziel has a lot of talent... Not that he demonstrated on the field during his very short NFL career.

5) ... and I think it is worth giving him a shot. An opinion that does not address the question "Why should we give .... a chance?".

6) At the very least he provides competition for the backup QB spot. We already have higher levels of competition in place with more successful NFL experience. Why would we add a "less experienced or capable QB to this mix? My opinion is that I do not think he is as ready as any of the QB's in the 2018 draft to address the question & answer requirements for "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

Mr. Manziel does have a chance in the CFL. If he is successful there, then he will qualify to the question & answer "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "He has the skill set, the football intellect, is a grinder and make good teammate.".

My question to you is: are you afraid he won't get back into the NFL when he demonstrates his QB ability in the CFL?
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This is exactly how the situation should be viewed IMO, great post Ray!
 
Ray R said:
3) ... he has taken the necessary steps to combat against his diagnosed bipolar disorder. This may be true, but it does not address the basic question and answer - "Why should we give .... a chance?". The right answer would be "They have the skill set, the football intellect, are grinders and make good teammates.". Addressing a disorder is important to just be at a basic level of personal reliability. It doesn't address what he can do as a QB, which should be our most important consideration.
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That just means that he says he's currently taking his medication. Unfortunately, people with bipolar disorder get their "high" during their manic phase when they think they are magnificent and they can do anything (like win a Heisman, get drafted in the 1st round and attract a lot of attention - they crave it). After a while, they invariably hate taking their medication because it makes life comparatively boring - no great highs, no big lows, just stability and monotony. Good luck to him taking his medication, it's probably the key to getting his life under control. However, I understand that it is extremely hard for persons with the disorder to live life in this way - they naturally yearn for the highs from the manic phase when they think they are invincible. (Note, some extremely high achievers in all fields - eg business, science, the arts, sports and politics were bipolar - eg Frank Sinatra, Ted Turner, Sir Isaac Newton, Ludwig van Beethoven, Vincent Van Gogh, Sir Winston Churchill, Ernest Hemmingway, Kurt Cobain, even Terry Bradshaw as an NFL example, etc - they are/were talented but often extremely difficult to work with).
Johnny remains very high risk. Gase doesn't need a high maintenance project like this - leave it for someone else - preferably in Canada. However, having said all this it is worth remembering that Johnny's first year at Texas A & M was with Ryan Tannehill as his QB and leader. Apparently Johnny respected the hell out of Ryan and really looked up to him.
 
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