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SKOLNICK: Boldness defining Cameron early on

Green Phin

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Looks like Ethan Skolnick from the Sun Sentinel likes the moves Cam has made so far. He writes that "The Dolphins' recent pattern has been to cry over spilled sour milk, then slurp it up until it makes them sick. Exhibits: Jamar Fletcher, A.J. Feeley, Eddie Moore. Good organizations sweep that milk away. They pour fresh new glasses.

Cameron could have kept three players with track records: Olindo Mare, Randy McMichael, Wes Welker. While some fans had soured on Mare and McMichael, Welker remained wildly popular. All are gone.

Cameron took this job apparently understanding that some real rebuilding was necessary, even if authorizing those changes could put his record, reputation and longevity at risk.

That alone distinguishes him from predecessors."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...924.column?page=2&coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

I agree that the personnel moves have been a welcomed change compared to the previous regimes. However, I am more interested in watching Cam's performance as a coach. I believe that the main change will be there.
:cooldude:
 
I tell ya i was going to write a thread about this very subject,i'll spare you the details but the premise was ramcam sure has some big kahone's,,,Cam really seems like a nice guy but don't be fooled,this guy totally believes in himself,,he literally told daunte to his face that he was'nt our quarterback and went ahead and drafted the man he wanted in beck while refusing to succumb to the pressure and draft quinn WHILE TAKING THE MOST EXPLOSIVE PLAYER IN THE DRAFT IN GINN

I FREAKIN LOVE RAMCAM
 
i really dont kno about his caoching but as for putting the team together he has infused this offense with such speed and life if he stinks it up as a coach...when he leaves the good thing will be he set this offense up to be a winner under someone else
 
I don't know that I see a whole lot of differences between Saban's start to his regime and Cameron's. The difference is the side of the ball that they're willing to scrap.

You see, Saban came on and his forte is defense, obviously. What does he do? Well, he immediately sweeps away players he doesn't think fit. He knows what he likes, likes what he knows, and so you see guys like Patrick Surtain tossed immediately, you see Sam Madison phased out...our linebackers are revamped...defensive tackles revamped.....defensive ends reworked....I mean he really worked over that defense and made some unpopular moves I felt like.

But on offense, his forte isn't offense...he just took on Scott Linehan and went off his and Rick Spielman's recommendations. They even said the offense needs a lot less work than the defense, even though obviously in 2004 the defense was good and the offense was crap. I don't think Saban felt comfortable or felt like he had the know-how to really make controversial moves on the offensive side of the football.

The same is happening in 2007 just on different sides. If there's something Cam is an absolute expert on, it is offense. He knows what he likes and likes what he knows. He's tossing the parts that don't fit and re-fitting with parts that make sense to him. In the process, he makes controversial moves and doesn't really care because this is a guy that knows what he wants and needs to see on that side of the ball.

But on defense? What's he done? Basically allowed Mueller and Capers to run the show on that side. Mueller wanted Joey Porter in the worst way so he went out and got him. Secondary was awful last year, but where are teh changes to it? They've made internal changes, that's about it. The only decision they made that even came close to controversial was cutting Kevin Carter and re-signing Vonnie Holliday...but even those moves were just continuations of the patterns established by Saban. Saban had drafted Roth to eventually take over. Kevin Carter even said "Matt Roth will be the reason I retire". Re-signing Vonnie Holliday wasn't a bold move, it was a safe move. Personally I felt like they could maybe do better but you know, it's safe having ole Vonnie around.

So personally, I see the two having acted the same the issue is just that Saban revamped a defense that had a history of performing well so when it continued performing well he didn't get much credit for the serious body work he did on the thing...because the offense stayed dismal. If Cameron revamps the offense, which has a history of poor performance, he'll get a lot of credit for these bold moves because everyone will be seeing something they hadn't seen in a while....offensive competency. But what I wonder is, will the defense back-slide in the face of the one-sided attention? Could there be cracks in the defense that we don't know about that will get worse because we're not really renewing or revamping it? My main worry at this point is the secondary and how we didn't do anything about it.
 
Unlike some of our previous coaches who gave lip service to making needed changes ,Cam has made those changes regardless of their popularity among fans and pundits.

He has the courage of his conviction .In other words he is sticking his neck out for what he believes.That demonstrates confidence in what he is trying to accomplish.

It remains to be seen whether that confidence translates into success .Until that time we should give him the benefit of the doubt IMO.
 
Unlike some of our previous coaches who gave lip service to making needed changes ,Cam has made those changes regardless of their popularity among fans and pundits.

He has the courage of his conviction .In other words he is sticking his neck out for what he believes.That demonstrates confidence in what he is trying to accomplish.

It remains to be seem whether that confidence translates into success .Until that time we should give him the benefit of the doubt IMO.

Very well said Crunch. I wish more fans would stick their necks out like Cam does. We could have an awesome home field advantage if everyone would talk loud and draw a crowd. Tell everyone you know that Trent Green is the man and that he's taking us to the bowl. Believe in what the phins are doing. Cam does. And its good to see.
 
I don't know that I see a whole lot of differences between Saban's start to his regime and Cameron's. The difference is the side of the ball that they're willing to scrap.

You see, Saban came on and his forte is defense, obviously. What does he do? Well, he immediately sweeps away players he doesn't think fit. He knows what he likes, likes what he knows, and so you see guys like Patrick Surtain tossed immediately, you see Sam Madison phased out...our linebackers are revamped...defensive tackles revamped.....defensive ends reworked....I mean he really worked over that defense and made some unpopular moves I felt like.

But on offense, his forte isn't offense...he just took on Scott Linehan and went off his and Rick Spielman's recommendations. They even said the offense needs a lot less work than the defense, even though obviously in 2004 the defense was good and the offense was crap. I don't think Saban felt comfortable or felt like he had the know-how to really make controversial moves on the offensive side of the football.

The same is happening in 2007 just on different sides. If there's something Cam is an absolute expert on, it is offense. He knows what he likes and likes what he knows. He's tossing the parts that don't fit and re-fitting with parts that make sense to him. In the process, he makes controversial moves and doesn't really care because this is a guy that knows what he wants and needs to see on that side of the ball.

But on defense? What's he done? Basically allowed Mueller and Capers to run the show on that side. Mueller wanted Joey Porter in the worst way so he went out and got him. Secondary was awful last year, but where are teh changes to it? They've made internal changes, that's about it. The only decision they made that even came close to controversial was cutting Kevin Carter and re-signing Vonnie Holliday...but even those moves were just continuations of the patterns established by Saban. Saban had drafted Roth to eventually take over. Kevin Carter even said "Matt Roth will be the reason I retire". Re-signing Vonnie Holliday wasn't a bold move, it was a safe move. Personally I felt like they could maybe do better but you know, it's safe having ole Vonnie around.

So personally, I see the two having acted the same the issue is just that Saban revamped a defense that had a history of performing well so when it continued performing well he didn't get much credit for the serious body work he did on the thing...because the offense stayed dismal. If Cameron revamps the offense, which has a history of poor performance, he'll get a lot of credit for these bold moves because everyone will be seeing something they hadn't seen in a while....offensive competency. But what I wonder is, will the defense back-slide in the face of the one-sided attention? Could there be cracks in the defense that we don't know about that will get worse because we're not really renewing or revamping it? My main worry at this point is the secondary and how we didn't do anything about it.

Do you feel, that the offense was in a much worse state than our secondary? If not, do you think it would have been better to drop a couple of the offensive players we picked up and used those picks/acquisitions on the secondary? I'm asking because i feel like, next off season our focus will be more on the secondary, and this year the front 7 can continue to mask some of the DBs flaws, but at least (hopefully) we'll have some offense, this year.
 
Unlike some of our previous coaches who gave lip service to making needed changes ,Cam has made those changes regardless of their popularity among fans and pundits.

He has the courage of his conviction .In other words he is sticking his neck out for what he believes.That demonstrates confidence in what he is trying to accomplish.

It remains to be seen whether that confidence translates into success .Until that time we should give him the benefit of the doubt IMO.

It should be noted that he's merely showing the confidence and conviction to stick his neck out to change the fortunes of the offense, where Saban did the same for the defense.
 
Do you feel, that the offense was in a much worse state than our secondary? If not, do you think it would have been better to drop a couple of the offensive players we picked up and used those picks/acquisitions on the secondary? I'm asking because i feel like, next off season our focus will be more on the secondary, and this year the front 7 can continue to mask some of the DBs flaws, but at least (hopefully) we'll have some offense, this year.

I feel like we had problems all over the offense where the defense had the secondary issues and age issues in the front seven.

You could be right, you can't fix everything in one off-season. But you know, Saban took that same approach with the offense and defense. He focused his attention on fixing the defensive personnel and revamping it...did some light changes to the offense (Ronnie Brown the biggest). You had to figure, can't do everything in one off season. So, in off season two that's when he dug in and made a bigger change...namely QB. He ended up getting that one wrong. If he were Cam Cameron would he have gotten that decision wrong? I don't think so. But he wasn't Cam Cameron, he was Nick Saban.

So likewise, in 2008, we could be staring at a situation where we've got to make some tough decisions on renewing this defense...and will he make misguided decisions similar to Saban? Very possible. I guess we have to hope that Mueller and Capers together will provide better counsel on making those tough decisions than Saban got from...well, whoever he allowed to counsel him on the offense (if anyone at all).
 
I don't know that I see a whole lot of differences between Saban's start to his regime and Cameron's. The difference is the side of the ball that they're willing to scrap.

You see, Saban came on and his forte is defense, obviously. What does he do? Well, he immediately sweeps away players he doesn't think fit. He knows what he likes, likes what he knows, and so you see guys like Patrick Surtain tossed immediately, you see Sam Madison phased out...our linebackers are revamped...defensive tackles revamped.....defensive ends reworked....I mean he really worked over that defense and made some unpopular moves I felt like.

But on offense, his forte isn't offense...he just took on Scott Linehan and went off his and Rick Spielman's recommendations. They even said the offense needs a lot less work than the defense, even though obviously in 2004 the defense was good and the offense was crap. I don't think Saban felt comfortable or felt like he had the know-how to really make controversial moves on the offensive side of the football.

The same is happening in 2007 just on different sides. If there's something Cam is an absolute expert on, it is offense. He knows what he likes and likes what he knows. He's tossing the parts that don't fit and re-fitting with parts that make sense to him. In the process, he makes controversial moves and doesn't really care because this is a guy that knows what he wants and needs to see on that side of the ball.

But on defense? What's he done? Basically allowed Mueller and Capers to run the show on that side. Mueller wanted Joey Porter in the worst way so he went out and got him. Secondary was awful last year, but where are teh changes to it? They've made internal changes, that's about it. The only decision they made that even came close to controversial was cutting Kevin Carter and re-signing Vonnie Holliday...but even those moves were just continuations of the patterns established by Saban. Saban had drafted Roth to eventually take over. Kevin Carter even said "Matt Roth will be the reason I retire". Re-signing Vonnie Holliday wasn't a bold move, it was a safe move. Personally I felt like they could maybe do better but you know, it's safe having ole Vonnie around.

So personally, I see the two having acted the same the issue is just that Saban revamped a defense that had a history of performing well so when it continued performing well he didn't get much credit for the serious body work he did on the thing...because the offense stayed dismal. If Cameron revamps the offense, which has a history of poor performance, he'll get a lot of credit for these bold moves because everyone will be seeing something they hadn't seen in a while....offensive competency. But what I wonder is, will the defense back-slide in the face of the one-sided attention? Could there be cracks in the defense that we don't know about that will get worse because we're not really renewing or revamping it? My main worry at this point is the secondary and how we didn't do anything about it.

Great post. You are almost always on the money and insightful. So the question that may separate Cameron and Saban is the performance of their marquee draft picks. Will Ginn, Beck, and Booker outperform Jason Allen, Matt Roth, and Channing Crowder?
 
I don't know that I see a whole lot of differences between Saban's start to his regime and Cameron's. The difference is the side of the ball that they're willing to scrap.

You see, Saban came on and his forte is defense, obviously. What does he do? Well, he immediately sweeps away players he doesn't think fit. He knows what he likes, likes what he knows, and so you see guys like Patrick Surtain tossed immediately, you see Sam Madison phased out...our linebackers are revamped...defensive tackles revamped.....defensive ends reworked....I mean he really worked over that defense and made some unpopular moves I felt like.

But on offense, his forte isn't offense...he just took on Scott Linehan and went off his and Rick Spielman's recommendations. They even said the offense needs a lot less work than the defense, even though obviously in 2004 the defense was good and the offense was crap. I don't think Saban felt comfortable or felt like he had the know-how to really make controversial moves on the offensive side of the football.

The same is happening in 2007 just on different sides. If there's something Cam is an absolute expert on, it is offense. He knows what he likes and likes what he knows. He's tossing the parts that don't fit and re-fitting with parts that make sense to him. In the process, he makes controversial moves and doesn't really care because this is a guy that knows what he wants and needs to see on that side of the ball.

But on defense? What's he done? Basically allowed Mueller and Capers to run the show on that side. Mueller wanted Joey Porter in the worst way so he went out and got him. Secondary was awful last year, but where are teh changes to it? They've made internal changes, that's about it. The only decision they made that even came close to controversial was cutting Kevin Carter and re-signing Vonnie Holliday...but even those moves were just continuations of the patterns established by Saban. Saban had drafted Roth to eventually take over. Kevin Carter even said "Matt Roth will be the reason I retire". Re-signing Vonnie Holliday wasn't a bold move, it was a safe move. Personally I felt like they could maybe do better but you know, it's safe having ole Vonnie around.

So personally, I see the two having acted the same the issue is just that Saban revamped a defense that had a history of performing well so when it continued performing well he didn't get much credit for the serious body work he did on the thing...because the offense stayed dismal. If Cameron revamps the offense, which has a history of poor performance, he'll get a lot of credit for these bold moves because everyone will be seeing something they hadn't seen in a while....offensive competency. But what I wonder is, will the defense back-slide in the face of the one-sided attention? Could there be cracks in the defense that we don't know about that will get worse because we're not really renewing or revamping it? My main worry at this point is the secondary and how we didn't do anything about it.

In comparing the similar (somewhat) styles of Cameron and Saban you make some good points, especially regarding the secondary. But I don't think that you can factor out the element of synergy that Cameron brings and has fostered with Mueller, whom I think has done a heck of a job. Suffice it to say that dissecting this matter would require a harsh assessment of Huizenga, who not only signed off on the Saban dictatorial regime but allowed or at least turned a blind eye to Saban treating everyone like crap and significantly reducing club morale, a side issue but a disturbing one.

While Saban re-tooled the defense and Cameron the offense, as you correctly pointed out, I find myself referring to a two word litmus test that I think reduces the elemental style and efficacy differences of Saban and Cameron to the core: Bennie Anderson. Mueller and probably Capers wanted Porter, eating up 20 million in the process. They got him, but in that transaction we come face to face with an important caveat about comparing the two- Saban had carte blanche and the final word, Cameron does not in personnel matters. Maybe we should be comparing Saban the personnel chief to Mueller to be more accurate about it.

Which brings us back to Bennie Anderson: Saban, with seeming disregard to Mueller (Houck I don't know about), shoved this free agent down the organization's throat with little or no regard for Mueller's abilities as a judge of talent and his position and responsibility within the organization. And, of course, Anderson stunk and proved to be a waste of money and roster space. That's one example, I wonder how many more times Saban relied on no opinion but his own and screwed up.

I give Cameron major props for his ability to work seamlessly with Mueller and also for having the balls to stick to his guns i.e. the Ginn/Beck plan and Quinn fallout. If we're looking at this from a player evaluation perspective, I'll take RamCam over Saban in a heartbeat, but the dynamics of the organization have change dramatically such that a direct comparison between Cameron and Saban is not really addressing the totality of the situation.

Also, I have to point out that Cameron is an offensive guy who was brought in to revamp a weak offense- that's what he's doing. I don't really see how he's playing favorites with the O- he's fixing what is broken and requires help. Whereas Saban inherited a pretty good defense and even though he drafted Ronnie Brown and got Culpepper hoping for the best, he spent a lot of draft picks and money on the D. To me that smacks of favoritism more than anything CamRam have done. Again, props to Mueller.

It seemed to me that Saban was working in a vaccuum, shoving out Spielman, ignoring Mueller, and his offensive acquisitions were for the most part weak. In comparing Saban to Cameron, or more accurately Ramcam, I have no doubt that I'll take what we've got right now by a large margin over the Saban fascist regime.
 
I feel like we had problems all over the offense where the defense had the secondary issues and age issues in the front seven.

You could be right, you can't fix everything in one off-season. But you know, Saban took that same approach with the offense and defense. He focused his attention on fixing the defensive personnel and revamping it...did some light changes to the offense (Ronnie Brown the biggest). You had to figure, can't do everything in one off season. So, in off season two that's when he dug in and made a bigger change...namely QB. He ended up getting that one wrong. If he were Cam Cameron would he have gotten that decision wrong? I don't think so. But he wasn't Cam Cameron, he was Nick Saban.

So likewise, in 2008, we could be staring at a situation where we've got to make some tough decisions on renewing this defense...and will he make misguided decisions similar to Saban? Very possible. I guess we have to hope that Mueller and Capers together will provide better counsel on making those tough decisions than Saban got from...well, whoever he allowed to counsel him on the offense (if anyone at all).

Personally, I'd like to see next year's off season devoted totally to the secondary and offensive line. With the caveat that if you have the opportunity to get a player to replace JT or Zach and you don't think their replacement is on the roster currently (I don't) then you take the opportunity because they are close to retirement.
 
Great post. You are almost always on the money and insightful. So the question that may separate Cameron and Saban is the performance of their marquee draft picks. Will Ginn, Beck, and Booker outperform Jason Allen, Matt Roth, and Channing Crowder?

At this point the differences between the two to me, are that first off it can't be ignored how much nicer Cameron is as opposed to Saban. The work atmosphere is different, very different. Better results? We don't know. But the atmosphere in the office as well as in the locker room and especially with the media, VERY different. Saban gave himself a very short leash with the media and when they smelled blood in the water they pounced.

The major difference to me though are the people they've surrounded themselves with. Saban trusted that Scott O'Brien dude but seemingly nobody else. Saban brought on board Linehan, Cameron managed to keep Capers. Both are very equivalent in terms of league rep as coordinators. The difference is that Linehan was on his way up and destined to leave. Capers has had two head coaching gigs now and both failed, so he's probably not going to get called up again (although 49ers fans probably could have said that about Norv Turner after the failed Raiders gig). What did Saban in was Linehan leaving. That's pretty clear to me. Things would have worked out a lot better if that never happened. Even with Culpepper here. Hopefully Capers will not leave. I've always said that getting Cameron was a three-part deal...it's integral for the Cameron regime to work that Cameron, Mueller, and Capers stay together.

So we'll see. Both were very one-sided coaches in terms of their knowledge of the game's X's and O's and understanding of the need for certain personnel at certain spots. Saban, I still believe, was a better player motivator...but we'll see if Cameron surprises in that category. Cameron's also not done himself any favors by deciding to wear both hats as coordinator and head coach. He'll have to remedy that sooner rather than later. So with those advantages in Saban's favor you'd think Saban would get better results but I personally believe Cameron will get better results because of personnel and trust in the people they've surrounded themselves with. I believe Cameron walks into Miami with way better personnel than Saban had coming off the 2004 season. I also believe Cameron has surrounded himself in 2007 not necessarily with better people than Saban did in 2005-06, but people that will stick around longer, and Cameron will LISTEN to those people more than Saban did. All of that should lead to better team success.

Championships though? I'm not sure. Personnel becomes a big question. If they got the right QB in John Beck, that will go a LONG way toward bringing the championship to Miami, as long as the triumvirate of Cameron, Capers, and Mueller stick together. Remember, even in New England, they had Belichick, Weis, and Pioli. People wanted to say the trio was Belichick, Weis and Crennel but I've always believed Crennel to be overrated, and we're not exactly seeing encouraging things with him in Cleveland. The trio to me was always Belichick, Pioli and Weis. They covered offense, defense, and personnel. When that trio broke up, New England stopped winning championships. Could they get one back in 2007? Vegas seems to think so. We'll see.
 
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