Slimm's 2016 Quarterbacks (Underclassman) | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2016 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

Watched Goff once early in the season, forget who they were playing. My takeaway was that it's a really bad year for QBs if he's the cream of the crop.
 
Goff reminds me a bit too much of guys like Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins, backup quality NFL players. That's in terms of overall physical ability. I wouldn't say that's an arm strength thing. The arm strength is fine. But I think there's no doubting that Connor Cook and especially Paxton Lynch have better overall physical ability.
 
I think overall I would have some problems trying to draw from this year's well if my mindset is that I've got to find that one guy to bet my franchise on for the next four years. Paxton Lynch has great physical potential and has been a pretty safe decision-maker but you not only have to build him up technically, you also have to teach him how to play in an NFL style offense and how to make NFL style decisions from the ground-up. There's so much unknown there. When you're watching Jared Goff much of the same applies, only you're a little more firm on his technical skills. However, you look at his overall ability, even going into his technical skills for the position and not necessarily thinking about paper attributes, you kind of wonder if you're just seeing a 15th to 10th percentile guy (relative to drafted quarterbacks) which would only make him a quality backup. Is he really part of that 1st to 5th percentile that make up your franchise signal callers? Then you see Connor Cook and in terms of technical skills, footwork, the way he sets his feet into his throws, the kinds of decisions and throws he opts for, this is the guy that most closely matches a franchise signal caller on a very basic, optical level. That said, constant whispers about him not being a great leader, doesn't really have the mobility/scrambling tool in his tool belt, and he's got that Favre syndrome where he's just going to put the ball out there for the defense to grab X number of times per game. He could be a Jay Cutler, he could be a Mark Sanchez, or maybe he is another Brett Favre. You don't know and it's hard to bet your team on him, just as it's hard to bet your team on Goff or Lynch.

I'm usually the one that criticizes people who play the "next year" game. Seems like people always think the talent will be better next year. But that's the direction I'm leaning with this position, knowing that guys like Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson will likely be available next year.

That said, if you have a quarterback already and your primary goal is just to boost your chances of getting better play at that position in some way, and/or having an asset you can sell off later...this could be a good draft for that. Any of the above three would make good investments that way depending on the price tag and which players you'd be passing over to do it. There are some other players that could make good investments that way as well, like Kevin Hogan, Brandon Doughty and Carson Wentz.
 
You know what I like about Baker Mayfield? They play a tough SEC defense in Tennessee, and you'd think a Big 12 quarterback (especially a diminutive one like him) wouldn't be up to the task. But snap after snap, Mayfield showed that he could hang with Tennessee even with very poor help from the players around him. The receivers though, drop after drop after drop. Until Sterling Shepard took over, as he do.

Definitely a guy to watch next year. Reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Good job. I appreciate Slimm because he's up to date on the Pac 12 far beyond the vast majority of draft analysts in the East.

Goff deserves to be first among this group. I was worried Dykes might kill him as a freshman. Slight frame and throwing incessantly on a terrible team. Last season the uptick was considerable, both for the team and player. Kind of the opposite of what Hackenberg did.

Hard to believe Gunner Kiel is still an underclassman. I'm disappointed in Tuberville for allowing so much imbalance. Kiel was injured going into the game against the Canes last year so it was difficult to get a good read on him. Overall it was one finesse play after another, not unlike what Cal does. I hope to attend the Canes game at Cincinnati on Thursday night this fall. Should be a real battle, unlike the lopsided result in 2014.
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If you watched Goff make his reads and throws today in the bowl it's hard to say he isn't the #1 overall of this bunch.

I didn't follower him all season did he struggle against larger schools?
 
After watching a couple of Cal's late season games and the bowl, I've returned to my opinion of Goff from a year ago. He is a franchise prospect, worthy of a very high pick. In fact, I wish the Dolphins could align with him and jettison the current guy.

In midseason Goff developed some bad habits, often forcing throws into coverage with his weight poorly distributed...too far back. That led to interceptions and arm strength that looked far worse than it actually is. For a while I started to question if Goff was slightly less gifted than ideal, sort of like Matt Ryan.

I finally realized that Cal's offense is very simplistic by spread standards and was doing Goff no favors. Smart aggressive defenses know when to ignore those looping running plays, which is all Cal uses in the running game. Goff fakes those plays and has attacking defenders in his face very quickly. He still needs to stand in there better against the rush and not lean backward and wing it off his back foot. Cam Newton can get away with that but Goff's arm -- while very good -- is not quite as special and obviously he's not the physical specimen that Newton is.

Goff plays so lanky I'm always shocked he's 6-4 and not 6-6 or taller. He's an undeveloped guy who looks more like a college freshman than someone about to enter the pros. Once he matures and fills out Goff should have nearly an ideal frame for a pro quarterback. His footwork, touch and instincts are already very impressive, along with his competitive nature.

The spiral could be a bit tighter.
 
Dolfan Denny said:
Any thoughts on Sean Maguire from FSU?
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I am certainly no expert scout but I watch a lot of FSU. He looks the part and has a lot of heart and leadership, it seems. However, he cracks under pressure and can be confused by good defenses as witnessed in the Clemson and Houston games this year. He does have a nice deep ball and good, if not great, arm strength. However, with all that being said, I don't see him coming out this year. He has a good chance to be the starter next year and I don't see him getting drafted above maybe the 6th or 7th, if at all.

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ckparrothead said:
Goff reminds me a bit too much of guys like Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins, backup quality NFL players. That's in terms of overall physical ability. I wouldn't say that's an arm strength thing. The arm strength is fine. But I think there's no doubting that Connor Cook and especially Paxton Lynch have better overall physical ability.
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So I'm curious as to what you mean by "physical ability"?
 
ckparrothead said:
Goff reminds me a bit too much of guys like Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins, backup quality NFL players. That's in terms of overall physical ability. I wouldn't say that's an arm strength thing. The arm strength is fine. But I think there's no doubting that Connor Cook and especially Paxton Lynch have better overall physical ability.
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Connor Cook? WTF?


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There are definitely bothersome aspects to Goff''s overall presentation. Let's put it this way, you wouldn't pick him first all year long in gym class.

Okay, we'll give you a break in football due to that arm. The remainder of the year you can stand back and fill out whatever team is a man short.

He's going to get killed upon a heavy rush, especially before his body fills out -- assuming it does -- and as long he maintains that bad habit of leaning backwards and being somewhat sensitive to charging linemen.

But there are so many strengths in his game. Goff doesn't make every throw on the robotic bounce-bounce-bounce-aim-fire sequence. Tannehill does that. You can tell exactly when he's going to let go. Goff senses advantage and flips it, even if outside the original design. He makes wonderful back shoulder throws and leads receivers to open areas. Great deep ball touch. Subtle moves in the pocket. He has an aggressive mentality out there, unlike Paxton Lynch, who often appears baffled. Lynch reminds me of a French barber from a century ago, for some reason. I'm not convinced he's the brightest bulb.

I'm not a fan of Sonny Dykes. Just the opposite. I almost can't wait for Goff to depart so I can bet against Dykes again. Actually, it hasn't been too bad even with Goff there.

The running game is sideways simplistic and overall the team is soft. I don't even like Goff's hand placement. The ball is tilting sideways, not at bad as the Tedford version but not ideal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Goff improves markedly with a minimum amount of pro coaching as opposed to the Dykes method.

I'm bullish on Pac 12 players but not on Sonny Dykes. That makes a relatively easy call on Goff toward the high end.

I'll probably change my mind within weeks, due to that lingering concern about basic athletic ability. He's not going to create anything on his own.
 
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