Slimm's 2018 Linebackers (Seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 8, 2017.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. Rashaan Evans / Alabama / 6'2", 232 [#58 overall]

    2. Matthew Thomas / Florida St. / 6'3", 232 [#67 overall]

    3. Oren Burks / Vanderbilt / 6'3", 233 [#68 overall]

    4. Dorian O'Daniel / Clemson / 6'1", 223 [#69 overall]

    5. Uchenna Nwosu / USC / 6'2", 251 [#70 overall]

    6. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo / Oklahoma / 6'2", 253 [#98 overall]

    7. Fred Warner / BYU / 6'3", 236 [#131 overall]

    8. Shaquem Griffin / UCF / 6'0", 227 [#132 overall]

    9. Tre Williams / Auburn / 6'2", 238 [#136 overall]

    10. Micah Kiser / Virginia / 6'0", 238 [#137 overall]

    11. Jack Cichy / Wisconsin / 6'2", 238 [#146 overall]

    12. Josey Jewell / Iowa / 6'1", 234 [#151 overall]

    13. Darius Leonard / S. Carolina St. / 6'2", 234 [#155 overall]

    14. Jermaine Carter / Maryland / 6'1", 222 [#157 overall]

    15. Skai Moore / S. Carolina / 6'2", 228 [#158 overall]

    16. Andrew Motuapuaka / Virginia Tech / 5'11", 245 [#212 overall]

    17. Mike McCray / Michigan / 6'1", 243 [#228 overall]

    18. Chris Worley / Ohio St. / 6'1", 238 [#257 overall]

    19. D.J. Calhoun / Arizona St. / 6'0", 234 [#258 overall]

    20. Tegray Scales / Indiana / 6'0", 230 [#259 overall]

    21. Davin Bellamy / Georgia / 6'4", 255 [#260 overall]

    22. Manase Hungalu / Oregon St. / 6'1", 238 [#267 overall]

    23. Auggie Sanchez / S. Florida / 6'2", 245 [#273 overall]

    24. Jacob Pugh / Florida St. / 6'3", 246 [#275 overall]

    25. Eric Boggs / App. St. / 6'3", 235 [UDFA]

    26. Junior Joseph / UCONN / 6'1", 235 [UDFA]

    27. Nick DeLuca / N. Dakota St. / 6'3", 251 [UDFA]

    28. Stacey Thomas / Louisville / 6'1", 232 [UDFA]

    29. Devante Downs / California / 6'2", 252 [UDFA]

    30. Azeem Victor / Washington / 6'2", 240 [UDFA]

    31. Shaun Dion-Hamilton / Alabama / 6'0", 228 [UDFA]

    32. Shaq Jones / UAB / 6'3", 250 [UDFA]

    33. James Hearns / Louisville / 6'2", 239 [UDFA]

    34. DeMarquis Gates / Ole Miss / 6'2", 221 [UDFA]

    35. Robert Spillane / W. Michigan / 6'2", 218 [UDFA]

    36. Trent Tanking / Kansas St. / 6'2", 225 [UDFA]

    37. Travin Howard / TCU / 6'1", 210 [UDFA]

    38. Luke Carrezola / UCONN / 6'3", 260 [UDFA]

    39. Colton Jumper / Tennessee / 6'2", 230 [UDFA]

    40. Zaire Franklin / Syracuse / 6'0", 230 [UDFA]

    41. Parris Bennett / Syracuse / 6'0", 222 [UDFA]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
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  2. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Very interested to see how Moore bounces back. Loved watching him play before the injury. Freaky natural in coverage.

    Big Kiser fan as well. These LB lists aren't jumping off the page like they did last year but there's some talent there. Lots of possible risers. I expect Evans to round out his game and develop like Foster did his last season ... where it all seemed to click for him. He's probably got the highest ceiling of them all.

    Weird not seeing any gators on either list but I don't even think the guys slotted to start are even draft eligible. Reese and Johnson will make that list somewhere next year.
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I look forward to seeing Rashaan Evans make good on his talent.
     
  4. ghostface95

    ghostface95 Starter

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    Did Addison Gillom (Colorado) declare for the 2017 draft? I'm asking because I didn't notice his name mentioned here nor the underclassmen list.
     
  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    He got beat out by Rick Gamboa for his LB spot last year. Retired from football a month or so ago due to numerous injuries he's accumulated. He sees the bigger picture. Got his whole life ahead of him.
     
  6. ghostface95

    ghostface95 Starter

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    Thanks for the info Slimm. I had no idea that occurred.
     
  7. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Matthew Thomas?

    Why so low on: DeLuca, Pugh, Hearns, Cichy, Hamilton, and Cabinda?
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I thought you meant Matthew Adams. Confuse them. Adams has stood out to me plenty of times when watching Houston tape.

    I think Cichy is underrated as well.
     
  9. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

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    Surprised to not see Dorian Odaniel in here.

    Kid is a athletic LB. Runs a 4.4 and shows it on the field.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Rice has a linebacker named Brian Womac that I need to remember to take a much closer look at.

    There are times he steps right out of the computer screen and slaps you hard in the face, forcing your attention on him no matter who you were trying to watch.
     
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  11. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Slimm, have you checked out Brian Womac II from Rice? I like him.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Has he stood out to you as well? I posted about him in the post immediately above yours, lol.
     
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  13. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Somehow I overlooked your post here. Aware of him but haven't looked at him.
     
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  14. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Lol Slimm missed my post, and I missed yours. Something fishy going on. But, yeah, he's looked great to me. Wins with hands and quickness, makes plays all over the field. Tested really poorly coming out of HS, so I'm watching that, but players can obv improve their athleticism with college-level training, and he looks like a solid athlete on tape. Hope he gets an invite to the Shrine Game if not the Senior Bowl.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Senior Bowl will bypass him. But he'll get into the Shrine Game based on his statistics.
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I really like Dorian O'Daniel a whole lot. I think he's going to be very attractive to teams trying to figure out how to shut down the underneath and quick passing game that has become so dominant in the NFL.
     
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  17. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yep. Basically a safety playing linebacker.

    I kinda view Skai Moore, O'Daniel, D.J. Calhoun, Demarquis Gates, Travin Howard and Parris Bennett all as a little bit of those S/LB hybrids. Some that we've seen drafted early. Probably going all the way back to Thomas Davis or even before.

    Versatility allows for good chess pieces to spy mobile quarterbacks or shutting down the underneath routes. I think a few of 'em may be a little more coveted in the draft than people think.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's remarkable how far that trend has gone in the NFL.

    I would argue the S/LB tweeners being used out there aren't even cutting edge anymore. Already they've become a middle ground between old school and new school.

    New school is just straight up dime packages with six real DBs on the field, not tweeners but real DBs, with only five total defensive linemen and linebackers. Two teams (Packers, Chiefs) use dime MORE than 50 percent of snaps. The Patriots use it over a third of the time. The Broncos use it something like 40% of the time. A bunch of other teams use it between a quarter and a half of the time.

    The tweeners out there, guys like Telvin Smith (Jacksonville), Ray-Ray Armstrong (San Francisco, until he was cut a week or so ago), Mark Barron (Rams), Su'a Cravens before retirement (Redskins), Deone Buchanon (Cardinals), Shaq Thompson (Carolina), those guys are used by defenses strategically so that they don't have to use true dime packages as often as the teams above. And even some of those teams, like the 49ers and Rams, use a fair amount of true dime anyway.

    The dinosaurs are teams like the Vikings, Browns, Falcons, Seahawks, and Dolphins...who have at least two linebackers and four defensive linemen on the field at all times. Among them though, I think the Dolphins are the most backward. The Vikings trot out Anthony Barr (4.4 speed) and Eric Kendricks (4.55 speed and was a gifted cover man out of UCLA). The Seahawks trot out Bobby Wagner (4.4 speed) and K.J. Wright (6'3" with 35" arms and long been established as one of the best coverage presences at LB in the NFL). The Falcons trot out Deion Jones (4.4 speed) and DeVondre Campbell (6'4" with 4.5 speed).

    Miami tries to get away with a Lawrence Timmons, who ran in the 4.6's over a decade ago and clearly isn't even that fast anymore, and Kiko Alonso who has great height but not great wing span, has always been an inconsistent cover guy, and his speed is in the 4.7's. Or I guess now they're taking Timmons off the field and subbing in Stephone Anthony who has 4.5 speed but whose weakness even going back to college was always coverage, as most have questioned whether he'd be more than a two-down linebacker his whole career.

    At least the Browns have Christian Kirksey. Miami doesn't even have that.

    Anyway the point of the matter is the whole S/LB thing has become the middle ground that enables defensive coordinators to resist doing what a bunch of defensive coordinators have already resigned themselves to doing, which is to use dime packages as often as NFL defenses used to use nickel packages twenty years ago.
     
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  19. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Excellent stuff, Slimm and CK. I couldn't agree more with Slimm's grouping (Calhoun, Howard, and Bennett would all be potential upgrades to Alonso) or CK's assertion about the move to Dime D's.

    I think Miami would be wise to target an OLB and a slot CB. I mentioned it in the Main, but I'd also consider moving TJ McDonald to LB - like Bucannon, Barron, Reid.

    But, at slot CB (of the Seniors), I'd like to see Miami walk away with one of MJ Stewart, Duke Dawson, Parry Nickerson, Deatrich Nichols, or Darius Williams - all of whom I rate as good tacklers in addition to good in coverage. Darius Phillips is the other - for his coverage, playmaking, and return ability - but his effort as a tackler seems to come and go a bit. Really, I wouldn't mind Miami grabbing one of the former players in addition to Phillips.
     
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  20. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Interesting insight into the defensive personnel groupings employed by NFL teams. I don't take in enough NFL to know all that. Although I can see how 6 DB dime packages would be prevalent in the NFL now. Need to defend the pass in a passing league. Thanks for sharing that information.
     
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  21. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek Finheaven VIP

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    Duke Dawson was pretty frustrating at Florida. His tape is gonna be a mixed bag for those that were fortunate enough to not watch gator games this season. It's gonna be pretty similar to Brian Poole's, as a matter of fact, with the big difference being Dawson plays like a slot corner (always thought Poole should make the move to FS ... someone in here said the same). He'll make a fabulous PBU on one play, get beat on the next, miss a pick on the one after, then make another great play. He wasn't just inconsistent from game to game, but also from play to play.

    The positives are he's a good, willing tackler with the shortest memory in the history of football. I don't expect him to test that great but knows the position pretty well - should've had a bunch more picks if his hands didn't betray him.

    I think McCain has developed just fine so I don't see the urgency to replace him with a high pick, but if Dawson falls to the 7th or UDFA like Poole did, I'd be all over it. Poole has surprised me in the NFL and I could see Dawson doing the same ... he has better tools for the slot ... his natural position.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I really like how Bobby McCain has come on and it reminds me that once upon a time he was Slimm's second ranked senior CB or something high up like that.

    I think he still has weaknesses in the red zone, and that's a concern to me as Miami has the dead worst red zone defense in the NFL. But I'm certainly not feeling as urgent about replacing him with a nickel corner.

    However, think about what I said about dime defense in the NFL and the way this is trending. We are speeding toward the point where defensive backs (whether former DBs converted to LB or current DBs) are going to represent HALF of your defense.

    We're almost there. Last I checked, we were at 45%.

    The reason that's notable is you go around and ask fans around the league about the role of the secondary in the defense and they'll say it's about a third. As in a third DL, a third LBs, a third DBs. It's MUCH closer to half.

    I'm probably bringing all this up in the wrong thread as this is the LBs thread but it's somewhat relevant because it's the LB unit that is getting squeezed out.

    So going back to Bobby McCain and the nickel position, you really don't even have to think Bobby McCain needs replacing in order to justify a significant pick on a corner (like Deatrick Nichols, a favorite of mine for obvious reasons, as well as honest ones). Every team needs a bunch of point guards that can anticipate, slip under a pick and close on the football, or track a wide landscape and be really disciplined in zone.

    What this trend means for linebackers, who are being squeezed out of the game, is that it's more and more important to get the BEST ones, not just bodies...or else you need to be focusing on hybrids like the guys mentioned above (Dorian O'Daniel, Skai Moore, etc).
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Matthew Thomas of Florida State has surprisingly pleasant tape to watch.
     
  24. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Shaquem Griffin from UCF should most definitely be on this list. Dude is a ****ing bad ***
     
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  25. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Still sleeping on Griffin? Check out what he did against Auburn today.
     
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  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I agree. The guy has unreal production.

    His identical twin brother blew the doors off the Combine with a 4.38 forty, 11'0" broad jump, 38.5" vertical. I doubt they're all that different athletically even with Shaquem being heavier and built for the linebacker position.

    If this guy has two hands, we're talking about a 1st round pick.

    Biggest concern I'd have is falling off/missing tackles. But he's only had four missed tackles all year long.

    I'm all for him.
     
  27. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    McShay has him listed as a safety but I have no idea why. He played at outside linebacker in UCF's 3-4 and showed that he can get off blocks and make things happen as a pass rusher, even being 100+ pounds lighter than a lot of the linemen he was going against. He's explosive as hell too. I could definitely see him at WLB in a 4-3. He's even had a few interceptions, all with just one hand.
     
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  28. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Here's the deal...and I hope everybody reads what I'm about to say.

    I always knew who Shaquem Griffin was, and he was always the better player in college than his brother for UCF in my opinion.

    However, I never included him on my list of Senior linebackers for the next level because he only had one hand. I know how critical having two hands are when it comes to gaining leverage playing football. It becomes even more critical at the next level. But it didn't mean that I wouldn't be thrilled to see a player like him succeed. I certainly would have.

    I want people to understand something though, this is about a little more for me now than a draft board. This is about inspiration and perseverance.

    Attitude.

    After really learning more about his entire story....the pain, everything from his childhood to now...all the details. It's not about my draft board. I'd already seen him play his entire career.

    After his incredible combine performance, along with all his UCF tape and accolades that he's earned as a college football player, I've added a linebacker to my board.

    Not because I'm afraid that he might be a good player and missing out on him, but because he INSPIRED me to have him on my board. He inspired me to have him on my football team.

    Let's be clear, this has never happened before.

    If a kid can inspire me to put him on my draft board, you can't imagine the impact he'll have on players that line up next to him. This is essentially what a sport like football comes down to. Period.

    I know. I've been there. I know what it's like to want to quit. I know what it's like to let yourself quit. Anybody who has ever really played the game does. They're lying to you if they say they never have.

    Nobody worth their own spit will ever let themselves quit playing on this kid's football team. The inspiration is literally immeasurable and infinite.

    By the way, he's a pretty decent athlete and player.

    He's a top 150 player in this draft. I might even take him earlier just to prove a point.

    Dont know how many you'll ever have, but nice call. #7 Senior linebacker on my board today. We'll see where I have him by draft day.
     
  29. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I wasn't trying to be critical of your work either. I basically pound the table for him any time I can, both because I got to see how special he was in college, and also because he deserves it. Just because he deserves it doesn't mean he'll get it. Not by a long shot.

    But I can definitely appreciate what you said, and props to you for making an addition to your board. Everyone (who has heard of him) has an opinion on him.

    I personally think he's going in rounds 3 or 4, some think he's a 5-7 round guy, and some say he's undrafted.

    Some will tell you either he's not big enough or strong enough to play linebacker at the next level, or that he'll have difficulties tackling or getting off of blocks.

    I do know that he's an intelligent football player, won't give up on plays, and encourages others around him. So even if he doesn't go into the NFL and light the league on fire, you know he has the work ethic and attitude to make your team better, even if he's just contributing on special teams or sits on the practice squad.

    I am a little biased since I went to UCF, but I genuinely haven't been this excited about a prospect that has come from UCF. Ever.

    I knew Blake Bortles would get overdrafted because of his size, or that Storm Johnson didn't have the maturity to stick in the NFL. I even thought Breshad Perriman was drafted a round or two too early.

    But there literally isn't anything bad I can say about Shaquem, or his brother. And I'm also glad that the spotlight is on someone who deserves it and can teach people about humility and perseverance.

    Thanks for your articulated response to my seemingly critical comment.
     
  30. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Slimm - Which round do you project Shaquem Griffin will get drafted? I thought his efforts were inspiring at the Combine (and he would look great in aqua and white). I can't help but root for him to succeed.
     
  31. EJay

    EJay Scout Team

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    Shaquem Griffin is a football player in the purest sense. The kid can just flat out play. He has that IT factor that you easily recognize when you see it. Whether or not his limitation(s) will prevent him from succeeding at the highest level, I have no idea. But I'm rooting for him to overcome the odds and prove all the naysayers wrong.

    If he goes to the right team with a staff that utilizes his strengths and teammates that can help hide his weaknesses, he could easily succeed.
     
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  32. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I'm not in the business of projecting where players will be drafted, so I have no idea. I don't try to figure out how 32 different teams view 300+ different players.

    What I do is grade players in accordance with my own evaluation. However, there's no question he's a top 150 prospect. I don't care where he gets drafted.
     
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  33. Oraclepz

    Oraclepz Seasoned Veteran

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    Slim .. CK.. what do you guys think about Uchenna Nwosu... Hes my favorite LB prospect in this draft. Think he would be a good replacement down the road for Kiko.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Member

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    Slimm, you're missing my boy Genard Avery! :)
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Member

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    If Lorenzo Carter had been playing a true LB position all along, he'd be a better LB prospect right now than both Tremaine and Roquan. I'll take him in a trade down to the early 20's over Tremaine at 11 hands down. Elite upside..... and a better athlete than Edmunds.
     
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