Slimm's 2019 Offensive Line (seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 1, 2018.

  1. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    Garrett Bradbury in the second might be interesting. Came in as a TE. He's an athlete. After drafting Morse and some other good linemen, our new director of college scouting might be intrigued here.

    If we go DB in the second, the Mullen kid from Clemson looks interesting.

    I would also not be averse to two front seven kids in the first two rounds. So many major needs.
     
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  2. FinPhan54

    FinPhan54 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I think either Bradbury or Elgton Jenkins in the 2nd is almost a guarantee like Gesicki or Goedert was last year. It is just a matter of which one we prefer.

    As much as I want Kyler Murray, I am starting to agree that trading down to be able to get 2 OLineman and a DLineman is not a bad idea at all.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The most premium OL at the Shrine game was Joshua Miles of Morgan State. He started playing in the game at Left Tackle with about 1 minute left in the first half and stayed in until about 11 minutes left in the 4th quarter. He generally made the rest of the guys look like also-ran's, with maybe one exception. I don't say all this lightly.

    F
    rom Day 1, right away during STRETCH, I could tell what kind of creature he was. It was that obvious, that quickly.
    Total package of hands, feet, body, lateral agility, explosiveness, movement skills. He plays at a different speed. The only problem is, and I am on record hating when people toss this word around all willy-nilly, but the fact of the matter is he's from Morgan State and there are times you can tell he just doesn't quite know what he's doing out there, the best way to execute the blocks he's trying to execute.

    Justin Hollins was the game MVP. He couldn't do sh-t against Miles. In fact he got buried on at least one play. And Miles probably isn't even a left tackle at the next level. He reminds me quite a bit of New England's first round pick from this year, Isaiah Wynn.

    But you know who the #2 guy out there was, behind Joshua Miles? Illinois OC Nick Allegretti, who caught my attention quite a few times.

    Here's the thing about him. He started off the game at Center and played really well. MLB Cody Barton had to be thinking this was the second coming of Kevin Mawae, the way Allegretti kept easily getting out to the second level and just absolutely erasing him. From CENTER, he absolutely stood up Daylon Mack, Daniel Wise, and Chris Nelson, all three of whom were dominant during the practice week, and during the game itself.

    So then he moves to right guard and again, played really well. He's beating Armon Watts with speed and lateral movement on zone plays. So then he moves to left guard and again, played really well. He got out to the second level and beat up on speedsters like LB B.J. Blunt. He continued to STOP Daylon Mack, whose unstoppable bull rush got him a follow-on invite to the Senior Bowl, and even gave Lamont Gaillard trouble. He made Chris Nelson look like a bad football player, and he looked anything but that during the practice week. He consistently, absolutely consistently, locked up and out-boxed Daniel Wise with great hands and feet.

    Before you knew it, you're adding it all up in your head and saying, wait a tick...he's essentially beating all of the best guys here at their own game. Consistently. He's beating Daylon Mack on anchor. He's beating Daniel Wise on hands and feet. He's beating fast linebackers in the second level, both in zone blocks and pulling out on screens. He's even pulling to the outside from Center.

    I seriously did not see the guy lose on a single snap all game, from three different positions. Sh-t, man!

    Some others that stood out seemed to have particular positions best suited for them. UM's Tyree St. Louis seemed really well suited at LEFT GUARD.

    Villanova's Ethan Greenidge is another guy who stood out to me right away during Day 1 stretch, though not quite as attractive as Josh Miles. But when you saw him move to RIGHT TACKLE and play? That's where things clicked. Not so much at left guard, where he also played.

    Texas A&M's Keaton Sutherland makes sense as a RIGHT GUARD. He's a bit finesse, has to learn to shoot his hands better, and to not get over-extended, keep his knees bent and feet active. But he's got a big 6'5" and 322 lbs body, nasty demeanor, more than a teaspoon of savvy, and he's really quite intriguing on the move and out in space. He showed against Kentucky he's fast enough he can get out and find safeties. He had some issues with Alabama, of course. He showed up during Shrine week and had a nice game. He closes up the space between he and his target quickly. That can get him into trouble sometimes.

    Of course Georgia OC Lamont Gaillard was good during the week. He played during all the same drives in the game as Josh Miles. You always knew he was stout but he showed some real urgency in the way he moved, as well. To be fair though, Daylon Mack did give him some issues with that straight-ahead power of his.

    Trey Pipkins of Sioux Falls had no business playing left tackle during the game, but when you saw him briefly playing RIGHT GUARD, he started to make a lot of sense. Massive body. Doesn't like to be sitting back with a bunch of space between him and his man.

    I feel like if I came out of the draft with Joshua Miles and Nick Allegretti, I've cherry-picked the best of the Shrine crowd.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Slimm I really think you need to get Allegretti on your rankings.

    The work he did against the likes of Daylon Mack, Daniel Wise, Chris Nelson, and Armon Watts alone warrants it. It was quite the proof statement.

    But all that aside, I'm watching him against Northwestern, and he's doing the same stuff. Watch him make Lorenzo Neal look average, and then erase Derrick Barnes and Markus Bailey at the second level. Watch him plow Carlos Davis into the ground and make Khalil Davis look just a guy.

    This is no finesse player. When he pushes, you move. When he decides to knock you to the ground, you go down.



    He's a vintage Dante Scarnecchia guy.
     
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  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Absolutely. I did add him at #13 after watching his work at the Shrine Game. However, I haven't gone back to watch his tape yet. Although it won't be difficult, as Reggie Corbin was one of my top backs in college football this season. Insane COD skills. I want to go back and focus on Allegretti to see his work.
     
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  6. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Most of his tape in 2018 is really solid. Won most of the reps I've seen over the past hour or so. Although the worst rep I've seen him lose was to Rutgers MLB where he got put flat on his back in an embarrassing fashion. Chalk one up for Rutgers there.

    Really good on the pin-and-pull, which is a staple of Illinois running game. Finishes most of his blocks - like to get a guy on the ground if he can. Looks a lot like Chris Lindstrom at Boston College. Only difference being Linstrom's film is more solid in pass protection and quickly identifying and picking up stunts and twists against elite defensive lines that you don't really see on film from Allegretti.

    I'll take him.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think if you focused on his work against the absolute best defensive tackles he would have faced, that's probably what would have you the most impressed.

    I've earmarked games to watch against Khalil Davis & Carlos Davis, Lorenzo Neal, Kevin Givens & Robert Windsor, Olive Sagapolu, Keiron Howard & Adam McLean, and Joe Gaziano.

    I've seen about half of those. This is what has me really intrigued. The "what" he's doing has my curiosity, but it's the "who" he's doing it to that has my attention. He has a curious ability to make some of college football's best look like JAGs.

    But with a guy like him I always try and figure out why he's skipped over. I think it's because of his body. He's sloppy looking. And you see the lack of athleticism when he has to get into a lot of space, or hustle around. He doesn't look like one of those linemen you might have pulled off the basketball court. He looks like his first pancake block was the nurse who pulled him out of the womb. Or maybe the doctor who slapped his ***.
     
  8. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Interesting. I don't remember St. Louis playing guard for the Canes. He was right tackle for a couple of seasons then switched to left tackle this year.

    Always somewhat disappointing, like virtually every Canes offensive lineman for years. Highly rated recruit. The standout aspect is that they are never in good physical condition. I literally laughed in the stands at the season finale on Senior Day when one Canes offensive lineman after another ran out onto the field during that ceremony. Many senior offensive linemen. The camera smack on them as they jogged to be greeted really emphasized the grotesque physical shape. It is no different with underclassmen like Donaldson. Such a contrast to programs like Alabama, Oklahoma and Wisconsin.

    St. Louis probably could improve markedly via that emphasis alone.

    Overall he plays a bit high and stiff. I don't see how he translates to tackle in the NFL, at least not as starter. Beaten by quickness many times.

    Switching inside along with improved conditioning and superior coaching could be the ticket.

    So many offensive linemen mature late I don't like to say flat out no, unless they are not strong enough or outright klutzes with balance issues.
     
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  9. Beach Bum 91

    Beach Bum 91 Water Boy

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    Are offensive lines like defenses when it comes to variability? Do they usually stick with zone or power, or do they use both? Does it matter what blocking scheme the lineman comes from when it comes to the draft or is that a non-issue? If it is an issue, what scheme (power or zone) do you think the Dolphins will use this year? What scheme should we use? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'm glad you have Chuma Edoga ranked so high.

    I keep thinking I'm taking crazy pills, watching the guy play and then seeing where the pundits keep having him ranked. He's superb.
     
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  11. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Offensive line and defensive line are very similar in terms of variability and identity. For the most part, zone blocking and man blocking aren't entirely independent of one another, although it just depends on the identity. The primary goal if you're zone blocking is getting displacement up front - double teams at the point of attack, one guy coming off and getting to the second level to man block a linebacker. In other words, they're not entirely independent of one another.

    If you're zone blocking, that doesn't necessarily mean all 5 guys up front are executing zone blocks. One side may be zone blocking, but the other side is executing back side cut blocks (man blocking), etc. So there's a mixture of both. Offensive line is a very complex dance to get everyone working on the same page snap after snap.

    Basically, each scheme has their own style of blocks. A power scheme is more less going to feature pulling lineman into the hole and kick out blocks at the point of attack as staples - a zone scheme is going to feature more reach blocks and double teams as staples.

    Defensive line philosophy typically boils down to what you're trying to accomplish in terms of gap control - spilling or containing. Which in turn determines the type of techniques and alignments you use. Some defensive lines will twist and stunt, some won't. Again, it's reliant on gap control and whether your style is 1 gapping or 2 gapping. That's the short answer anyway. Although there's really not a short answer to the questions you ask.
     
  12. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I currently have him as the 8th ranked OL in the class - behind only Williams, Taylor, Ford, Little, Dillard, McCoy, and Risner - very good prospect. Agree with you and Slimm.
     
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  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Joshua Miles of Morgan State did a 36 inch vertical at 6'5" and 315 lbs. He also has 36 inch arms and an incredible 7'3" wing span.

    True story. I never knew who the guy was before I stepped into Shrine practice and walked down onto the field to get a feel for the OLs during stretch/warmups. I picked him out immediately because of the way he was built, and especially the way he MOVED. During warmups.

    Sometimes it doesn't take much.

    He was the best OL I saw all week. It reminds me a lot of the experience I had with Rodger Saffold, which was very similar.
     
  14. Beach Bum 91

    Beach Bum 91 Water Boy

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    Excellent! Thank You for taking some time to coach me up.

    May I ask another question? I apologize if this seems silly, but does the center do anything besides hike the ball and block according to his assignment on any particular play call or can he make adjustments to the original call by the QB if it is advantageous to do so?
     
  15. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Andre Dillard had a phenomenal day, showing elite speed and agility for even a small OT, but he's 315! He was my top-rated Senior OL heading in, and he looked plenty athletic on tape, but he'll jump some of the UC I had ranked ahead of him (there were only four). He and McCoy (who I had as OL6) showed great.

    Conversely, Jawaan Taylor had the best day of the other top UC OL, and that's just because he didn't do the drills. I was a little concerned about Ford's agility entering the day, and he was worse than I expected, but I was really surprised at how poorly Jonah Williams performed. I still think they can be good pros, and Williams, Taylor, and Little can hang their hats on room for physical development (being young), but it's likely wise to adjust expectations.

    Stock up for Dillard, McCoy, Lindstrom, and Bradbury.

    Down for Williams, Ford, and Little.

    I haven't had the chance to view all the results, so I'm sure I'm missing a few guys, but these are the results that stood out to me.
     

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