just an FYI, Stick has reportedly been awful at the Shrine Game. Most reports indicate he's been the worst QB there
Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (seniors)
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I'm not as high on Stick, but I don't put much stock in these all-star games. Also, some guys practice (better or worse) than they play. Sam Darnold was reportedly a bad practice QB at USC - not notably better than the guy (whose name escapes me) he eventually beat out. Some said he was worse.
Also, if you've ever been to Tropicana Field, it's one of the ugliest places in the world and easily the ugliest in St. Pete. It's like the stuff from a vacuum filter had a baby with dim, florescent lighting. I can't wait for them to tear it down.
For anyone going (think CK is there), 11 Chicks (casual Venezuelan restaurant) is close (MLK and 2nd Ave N), and imo it offers the best bang for your buck in St. Pete. The Venezuelan Bowl (carne asada, plantains, avocado, black beans, salsa fresca on a bed of jasmine rice) and the Jerk Arepa are two of my favorites, but everything I've tried - including the churros and other arepas - is really good.
I could walk to Tropicana Field, but I've been working a lot and can't get the time off to go, and I wouldn't want to go to the Trop anyway.
Would like to know how Ta’amu is doing. My personal fave to get picked up in the later rounds.
Fair enough. But from the sounds of this NFL scouts have not been impressed with Stick and he needed a good week to raise his stock
Pachyderm_Wave
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Quarterbacks not looking sharp in this particular setting is fairly normal. However, what you want to avoid if at all possible is sticking out like sore thumb in a bad way.
The problem with Stick is that he's just a little bit clunky mechanically - which I've discussed briefly with CK in regards to Stick's penchant for turfing balls inexplicably - and the ball just doesn't always come out of his hand cleanly. Mechanics are typically what ends up getting you in a setting like this where you're throwing against air, either in a good way or bad way. On film, he doesn't pull the trigger on a lot of wide open receivers in key down and distances. He'd rather take off running.
Stick is a solid developmental quarterback, he's a gamer. But he needs time to work through some things. Which is going to be the case with any Senior QB in this class.
I do some maneuvering with prospects on by board over the course of a year in order to try and determine what every single prospect's ceiling and floor is in my rankings. Stick's ceiling is the #2 Senior QB in my rankings. However, his floor is the last Senior QB in my rankings. I think somewhere in the middle of that is a good spot for him. I usually try to tell people there's a method to the madness.
The problem with Stick is that he's just a little bit clunky mechanically - which I've discussed briefly with CK in regards to Stick's penchant for turfing balls inexplicably - and the ball just doesn't always come out of his hand cleanly. Mechanics are typically what ends up getting you in a setting like this where you're throwing against air, either in a good way or bad way. On film, he doesn't pull the trigger on a lot of wide open receivers in key down and distances. He'd rather take off running.
Stick is a solid developmental quarterback, he's a gamer. But he needs time to work through some things. Which is going to be the case with any Senior QB in this class.
I do some maneuvering with prospects on by board over the course of a year in order to try and determine what every single prospect's ceiling and floor is in my rankings. Stick's ceiling is the #2 Senior QB in my rankings. However, his floor is the last Senior QB in my rankings. I think somewhere in the middle of that is a good spot for him. I usually try to tell people there's a method to the madness.
I came in here looking for QB knowledge, and I left with a new place in St. Pete to try when I go visit my uncle. LOL
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I’ve been at the practices and to say Stick is the worst QB there is lunacy. Marcus McMaryion has been a lot worse, if you actually know what you’re looking at, and then both East quarterbacks David Blough and Taylor Cornelius have looked worse prospects.
Brett Rypien was the king on the first day but then had a consistently rough second day. Jordan Ta’amu was spotty on first day but then evened out and made some plays in the days that followed.
Whenever there’s a guy in these settings that is higher profile, you tend to get some evaluators who want to make themselves “stand out” from the crowd. You should be leery of them. There’s one particular outlet that, though there is ONE guy on staff I like very much, I disregard pretty much everything they say, about any player, because that’s the game they play.
TedSlimmJr is right on with this. Easton Stick has some clunky mechanics with how high he gets on his toes and how over top his delivery is. When he’s off, he’s turfing it. That’s what happened to him on first day a couple of times. It got into his head, you could see in his body language. Second day he fought back and was doing well, but then he tried to sneak a ball over top of a shallow safety defender to an open guy on the sidelines and Andrew Wingard made a nice play, returned it for six points.
Getting back to ‘reports’...you should try and be discerning about them. Don’t be interpretive. The reporter is watching a collection of plays and then interpreting those into a report. I often find that readers then read that report and add a second layer of interpretation, as if they’re actually there watching the player. It’s lunacy. It only gets you further away from the truth.
When you see a reporter who is prone to hyperbole, and/or broad generalization about the quality of performance on the entire day for a wide swath of players, run away. As fast as you can.
These practices are a collection of reps. You’ve often got two or three things happening simultaneously that you’d otherwise want to be observing, collecting data on, e.g. skeleton drills and pit drills, which are happening at the same time.
During periods when there is only one thing to pay attention to, it can be even harder, depending on your vantage. There’s no replay. How many times have you heard a coach say after a game about a performance, “We have to check the tape”? There’s a reason. There are 22 players going at it in team scrimmage on plays that last like five seconds, and your vantage point as a practice observer from the sidelines is crap unless you’re focused on a specific player/unit.
It’s funny to watch the congregations sometimes, at these practices. The young, aspirational media scouts end up on the sidelines feeling the magic, trying to see everything, and not really seeing anything. Real scouts are down there too, but they’re focus on a specific position that day. They follow it around. They’re down there for a purpose. And then you’ve got the people that are just down there to shoot the sh-t, network, occasionally noticing something on field. There’s SO MUCH of the latter going on, it’s amazing to me anyone ever writes up ANY ‘reports’ after practice.
And then you’ve got some older scouts, GMs, guys higher up the food chain. Where are they? The bleachers. Boring up there. But you SEE more. And they’re not really talking much, unless they’re huddled with one of their own.
I’ve been going to these things for a decade. I know who I trust when I’m not there. I know who to trust to help me fill in the gaps that are there simply because I can’t see everything. Nobody can.
Brett Rypien was a good litmus test. He had a STELLAR first day. Really he did. I was watching. But as good as his first day was, that’s how much he was off on his second day. Late throw here, unnecessary check down there, behind his guy, behind his guy and high, pick-6. Just a tough day for the guy. I know this because I was watching. So I go to see which others were watching. If I don’t see comment on it, they weren’t watching. But sometimes, you DO see comment on it. You see a rag who clearly saw his first day, but then DID NOT see his second day (because they say something very general and very wrong like, “continued to be solid”), but are clearly PRETENDING they did. Which happens all too often.
As for Stick, I actually have all his throws on my phone.
Brett Rypien was the king on the first day but then had a consistently rough second day. Jordan Ta’amu was spotty on first day but then evened out and made some plays in the days that followed.
Whenever there’s a guy in these settings that is higher profile, you tend to get some evaluators who want to make themselves “stand out” from the crowd. You should be leery of them. There’s one particular outlet that, though there is ONE guy on staff I like very much, I disregard pretty much everything they say, about any player, because that’s the game they play.
TedSlimmJr is right on with this. Easton Stick has some clunky mechanics with how high he gets on his toes and how over top his delivery is. When he’s off, he’s turfing it. That’s what happened to him on first day a couple of times. It got into his head, you could see in his body language. Second day he fought back and was doing well, but then he tried to sneak a ball over top of a shallow safety defender to an open guy on the sidelines and Andrew Wingard made a nice play, returned it for six points.
Getting back to ‘reports’...you should try and be discerning about them. Don’t be interpretive. The reporter is watching a collection of plays and then interpreting those into a report. I often find that readers then read that report and add a second layer of interpretation, as if they’re actually there watching the player. It’s lunacy. It only gets you further away from the truth.
When you see a reporter who is prone to hyperbole, and/or broad generalization about the quality of performance on the entire day for a wide swath of players, run away. As fast as you can.
These practices are a collection of reps. You’ve often got two or three things happening simultaneously that you’d otherwise want to be observing, collecting data on, e.g. skeleton drills and pit drills, which are happening at the same time.
During periods when there is only one thing to pay attention to, it can be even harder, depending on your vantage. There’s no replay. How many times have you heard a coach say after a game about a performance, “We have to check the tape”? There’s a reason. There are 22 players going at it in team scrimmage on plays that last like five seconds, and your vantage point as a practice observer from the sidelines is crap unless you’re focused on a specific player/unit.
It’s funny to watch the congregations sometimes, at these practices. The young, aspirational media scouts end up on the sidelines feeling the magic, trying to see everything, and not really seeing anything. Real scouts are down there too, but they’re focus on a specific position that day. They follow it around. They’re down there for a purpose. And then you’ve got the people that are just down there to shoot the sh-t, network, occasionally noticing something on field. There’s SO MUCH of the latter going on, it’s amazing to me anyone ever writes up ANY ‘reports’ after practice.
And then you’ve got some older scouts, GMs, guys higher up the food chain. Where are they? The bleachers. Boring up there. But you SEE more. And they’re not really talking much, unless they’re huddled with one of their own.
I’ve been going to these things for a decade. I know who I trust when I’m not there. I know who to trust to help me fill in the gaps that are there simply because I can’t see everything. Nobody can.
Brett Rypien was a good litmus test. He had a STELLAR first day. Really he did. I was watching. But as good as his first day was, that’s how much he was off on his second day. Late throw here, unnecessary check down there, behind his guy, behind his guy and high, pick-6. Just a tough day for the guy. I know this because I was watching. So I go to see which others were watching. If I don’t see comment on it, they weren’t watching. But sometimes, you DO see comment on it. You see a rag who clearly saw his first day, but then DID NOT see his second day (because they say something very general and very wrong like, “continued to be solid”), but are clearly PRETENDING they did. Which happens all too often.
As for Stick, I actually have all his throws on my phone.
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Pachyderm_Wave
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Absolutely. The last time I attended one of these was the Senior Bowl a decade ago. I honestly didn't learn much from being there that I didn't already feel like I knew.
I don't know whose assertion it is that Rypien was the best quarterback there, but I've gone over 4 years of his tape again and again and I just can't see using a pick on him. I just can't. Just my opinion.
McMaryion a better QB than Jordan Ta'amu? I'm out.
I don't know whose assertion it is that Rypien was the best quarterback there, but I've gone over 4 years of his tape again and again and I just can't see using a pick on him. I just can't. Just my opinion.
McMaryion a better QB than Jordan Ta'amu? I'm out.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Whoa. I haven't seen someone say McMaryion is a better QB than Ta'amu!
Although like I said, I'm very discerning about who I read, especially as I've been there myself.
When you're watching Stick, Rypien, and McMaryion together in the west practices, a couple of things stand out. The first is McMaryion's ball is nowhere near as hot as the other two. The second is the cadence. Stick's voice carries the most, by far. You could hear every word from anywhere in the dome. You'd swear you hear, "Sunday" from the bathroom. Rypien's wasn't bad. McMaryion sounded like he lost his voice at a concert. You couldn't make out a damn word, sometimes even if you were right there on the sidelines. John Beck had a voice quiet as a mouse, like that.
And Stick was pulling off his throws. Like I said, the turf balls on the first day got into his head. You see a guy turf a ball and then start rotating his arm to try and loosen it up? He's either got an injury, or it's in his head. My interpretation was the latter. Though honestly, the former wouldn't surprise me. He did just finish up a championship run like a week or so ago.
Although like I said, I'm very discerning about who I read, especially as I've been there myself.
When you're watching Stick, Rypien, and McMaryion together in the west practices, a couple of things stand out. The first is McMaryion's ball is nowhere near as hot as the other two. The second is the cadence. Stick's voice carries the most, by far. You could hear every word from anywhere in the dome. You'd swear you hear, "Sunday" from the bathroom. Rypien's wasn't bad. McMaryion sounded like he lost his voice at a concert. You couldn't make out a damn word, sometimes even if you were right there on the sidelines. John Beck had a voice quiet as a mouse, like that.
And Stick was pulling off his throws. Like I said, the turf balls on the first day got into his head. You see a guy turf a ball and then start rotating his arm to try and loosen it up? He's either got an injury, or it's in his head. My interpretation was the latter. Though honestly, the former wouldn't surprise me. He did just finish up a championship run like a week or so ago.
I'll go with that. I'm not thrilled with either of them but I definitely prefer McMaryion. And from the list of interviews it seems like some sharp offensive teams may agree that McCaryion is undervalued. The Saints and Rams asked to interview McMaryion after the first day of Shrine practices. I read that on another draft forum and was not surprised.
Ta'amu is a joke on third down. I saw that mentioned on the other draft forum a couple of months ago and it held up at the end of the season. I just checked the final numbers. Mississippi was second to last in the SEC, above only Arkansas. The overall conversion rate was abysmal and it included some comical numbers like 1 for 21 combined against Texas A&M and Mississippi State. They were lousy last season also but dropped even lower this time.
There's a guy on that forum who posts the third down stuff and how vital it has been to identifying NFL success at quarterback. It is one of the main reasons he did not like Josh Rosen last year. I have posted that link here at least twice.
McMaryion is no prize. Small frame. Not much of an arm. Defaults underneath too much. But he does have some definitive strengths. He is very clever and aggressive while bailing out plays and creating on his own. He also is excellent at standing up to pressure. I'm not sure he'll even be drafted but I think he is worth a look due to those strengths and the possibility that his arm strength will improve just enough to make him viable. I have seen that countless times among players with that type of frame. He could be a gadget type, or project to another position if he runs fast enough...4.6ish
There's a guy on that forum who posts the third down stuff and how vital it has been to identifying NFL success at quarterback. It is one of the main reasons he did not like Josh Rosen last year. I have posted that link here at least twice.
McMaryion is no prize. Small frame. Not much of an arm. Defaults underneath too much. But he does have some definitive strengths. He is very clever and aggressive while bailing out plays and creating on his own. He also is excellent at standing up to pressure. I'm not sure he'll even be drafted but I think he is worth a look due to those strengths and the possibility that his arm strength will improve just enough to make him viable. I have seen that countless times among players with that type of frame. He could be a gadget type, or project to another position if he runs fast enough...4.6ish
Geordie
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He absolutely wasn't the worst in the game itself. Threw a really nice TD pass, there were no designed run plays for him which was a shame. He had very few reps. Rypien was up and down, Blough won the stats battle with two TDs, but he seemed to get a lot of reps and didn't impress me at all, just nothing to get excited about with him. The other QBs were pretty poor tbh. My impression of the game was that Stick is still the one QB among the group to be intriguing would have liked to have seen a lot more of him.
McMaryion was simply awful, probably the worst, with Ta'amu following closely behind.
Pachyderm_Wave
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No, the most impressive throws in that game were all made by Ta'amu and it wasn't even close. They had McMaryion running RPO's from the shotgun while Ta'amu was trying to execute 7 step drops from under center with a play action fake mixed in, but the offensive lines simply couldn't block for that long.
Ta'amu's first pass of the game was a huge play to Godwin that was wiped out due to a penalty on the other receiver Horsted. Ta'amu's arm and athleticism was in an entirely different category from any other quarterback in the game. That much was clear and shouldn't even be debated. It was odd that all of Ta'amu's drives were killed by penalties or sacks due to what he was being asked to execute compared to the others.
Geordie
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Ta'amu certainly throws a good looking ball and looks the part, but I will have to respectfully disagree with your analysis. He was often off target especially throwing on the run, perhaps he was just not used to throwing to these guys, but it was the same for all the QBs out there. Although I wasn't impressed by Ta'amu, I can see the attraction in the kid, Maybe a decent late round project pick.
Pachyderm_Wave
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Nope. He made a huge throw to Custis on the run to his left with Justin Hollins bearing down on him that was incredible. You have to understand these coaching staffs have seen these quarterbacks all week in practice, they know which ones are capable of what. That's why you didn't see any throws that stretch the field by any quarterback except Ta'amu. As soon as he came in the game is when you saw some attempts to stretch the field. His stroke is just on a different level than the other quarterbacks there this week. Along with his athleticism. If you've studied all the quarterbacks that were there prior to this week, you knew that going in. If you didn't, you should know it coming out of the game if you watched it. He's an SEC quarterback down there with MWC and FCS quarterbacks. It's a given.
He'll certainly be drafted at some point in the middle rounds, although the only other QB's there that might get late round consideration are Rypien and Stick. I don't believe the others ever really had a shot to begin with. Rypien is capable of executing quicker throws as long he's in a clean pocket. He falls off drastically anything beyond that. That's what I always saw on tape with him.
The coaching staffs aren't tasked with making these quarterbacks look bad in a setting like this. Which is why you saw RPO's with McMaryion for example, and deeper routes with longer developing plays with Ta'amu. It's why you saw play action roll outs with Stick from under center - it's what he's used to doing at NDSU. Ta'amu made another incredible throw to Godwin that Hartage stripped out of his hands, ruled a fumble and returned almost for a score. McMaryion should've had 3 picks, with the one that Ulysses Gilbert almost picked off resulting in what would've been a pick six. Ta'amu was easily the best quarterback there, but we agree on McMaryion being a non factor as an NFL prospect.
If Awsi knows anybody that wants to bet a little money on which one is the better NFL prospect, they've got a sucker right here. They can win some easy money.