Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (seniors)
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Geordie
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More Ints than TDs for Thorson again, but he still got the W despite these stats:
15-30, 122 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT.
And there are folks on here taking shots at Grier for his Ints, this guy has thrown 40 to only 55 TDs, his entire career, that's almost double the amount of Ints to Grier. I'm staying clear of this guy on stats alone.
His throw for the game winnig TD was sweet though, just don't see how these kind of stats get any better when/if he goes to the next level.
15-30, 122 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT.
And there are folks on here taking shots at Grier for his Ints, this guy has thrown 40 to only 55 TDs, his entire career, that's almost double the amount of Ints to Grier. I'm staying clear of this guy on stats alone.
His throw for the game winnig TD was sweet though, just don't see how these kind of stats get any better when/if he goes to the next level.
Pachyderm_Wave
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It's more of a reflection of the style of offenses these QB's play in, the surrounding talent, and playing in conferences that can't even spell defense much less play it.
Thorson has zero NFL talent around him on offense, and the best RB they had retired a few weeks ago. Furthermore, Pat Fitzgerald has a very conservative coaching style.
It's probably easy to be scared off if you look at the stats. I don't. I evaluate the traits. You'd have to be pretty crazy to rank this kid among the top of your Senior quarterbacks.
Geordie
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I hear what you are saying but to be throwing that many INTs over your career, you are either making a lot of bad decisions, wildly inaccurate or your receivers are constantly not competing for the ball. What round do you think he'll go in ?
Nice to see Minshew so high on your list though, I like what I've seen of him.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I don't think it's ever a good idea to put too much weight on interceptions or completion percentage in college. They don't translate to the next level. Focus on the things that translate to the next level (traits).
For example, go back and look at Trevor Siemian's stats at Northwestern - a lot worse than Clayton Thorson's, and Siemian didn't have quite the next level traits as Thorson. You'd never look at Siemian's stats over 4 years in college and believe that he was a draftable prospect.
Most of all, you'd never look at those stats and believe he'd be a better NFL quarterback than some of his peers in the 2015 draft class that put up much prettier stats - Bryce Petty, Sean Mannion, Garrett Grayson, etc. You can't evaluate the stats. They don't translate.
Just to be clear in case I havent already done so several times, I don't believe any of these Senior quarterbacks are quality starters in the NFL. A few might make a decent back up or low level starter that you're always looking to upgrade. All I'm saying is that I believe Thorson has the most upside. I like a lot of the little things he does and the intangibles over the rest of the Senior crop.
BTW, he just beat another ranked Iowa team yesterday and has NW playing in the B1G championship game - with absolutely nothing around him.
Let him play against Big-12 defenses every week and load the skill positions around him like Grier has at WV along with two NFL caliber offensive tackles and I'd say his stats probably look a lot better. It's just an ugly style they play in the B1G outside of Urban Meyer's offense at Ohio St. But it works when they weather gets bad up there late in the season. I think he's probably a 3rd/4th rounder. I believe NFL scouts will like him a lot more than stat thumpers.
I’m still on the Ta’amu train to pick up in the later rounds.
For Miami the 3 guys on this list I'd look at (based on what Gase wants to do on offense and those player's skill sets) I'd say Minshaw, Finley, and Grier for seniors make the most sense
I honestly don’t see Gase picking up any QB in this draft except maybe in the later rounds. He likes what he sees in Falk for some reason, he likes him so much he put him on IR instead of the PS because he was scared he was going to get poached. He pulled a Belicheck.
ckparrothead
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I like the latest revisions.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Taylor Cornelius does not have a GOOD arm, by any means. If Dwayne Haskins has an arm that straddles the border of problematic, Taylor Cornelius has an arm that is into problematic territory. But Cornelius does have some impressive levers on him, nonetheless. His arm is no worse than Will Grier's or Daniel Jones's. Maybe a little bit better.
ckparrothead
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Easton Stick's arm strength tests out pretty funky.
He's only 6'1" or 6'2" and I've heard from someone who knows the NDSU head trainer that Stick plays around 190 or so, hopes to gain some weight to be 205. So disregard those listings that say he's 220+, lol.
But man can this guy wing it. Consistently 50+ at virtually every functional distance including 40 yards. He has not-infrequent throws at about 25-30 yards that come out around 54-56 mph. When he's pressured or hit as he's thrown, he's still generating 48 mph velocity, which is top-end for a guy like Clayton Thorson (and many others).
So why is he funky? He has this thing where he SHOTPUTS his deep balls. It's almost like he's being challenged to see how HIGH he can throw a football. And trust me, it's pretty farking high. There was one in particular, about a 170 foot throw, the camera panned out wide so you could see just how high it went in the air, and I swear it was identical to a PUNT.
This has to be a coaching point. He's throwing 49 or even 50 mph on a 120 foot throw (absurd!!) but then on a 140 foot throw he's at 38 mph like he's Daniel Jones all the sudden? I understand putting more air under your deep throws to let a guy run under them, but he's going way too extreme and it has nothing to do with an inability to throw a deep ball.
Drew Brees is such an excellent deep ball thrower because he's mastered the art and arc of keeping these 140 to 170 foot throws to around 44-45 mph, which would be a "stick throw" speed for some guys. Drew can't really DRIVE the football the way others can, on the shorter throws. Trust me, I've sifted through so many of his throws, he can't do it. He tops out around 48 to 50 mph where SOME others can get 55-56 mph (e.g. Easton Stick). But what makes Drew's arm profile unique is how much he drives his deeper throws, and how effective they are.
That is something Easton Stick needs to learn and improve on. If he can do it, and make other improvements, he's got the pure talent to be up there with an Aaron Rodgers even, someone like that. I don't declare something like that lightly. He moves like Aaron Rodgers. He's an athlete like Aaron Rodgers. He has the pure arm talent to where he could throw like Aaron Rodgers. I'm not saying he IS Aaron Rodgers, because Rodgers is special for reasons other than his athleticism, elusiveness, and arm talent.
Still, what an intriguing combination on a player that, again indirectly via someone I know connected to Stick's trainer, is a really good guy with a good head on his shoulders, hard worker, winner that brought his team to the FCS Championship Game as a freshman in place of an injured Carson Wentz only to cede the starting spot back to Carson when he got healthy, without even a word...the maturity to do something like that...
He's only 6'1" or 6'2" and I've heard from someone who knows the NDSU head trainer that Stick plays around 190 or so, hopes to gain some weight to be 205. So disregard those listings that say he's 220+, lol.
But man can this guy wing it. Consistently 50+ at virtually every functional distance including 40 yards. He has not-infrequent throws at about 25-30 yards that come out around 54-56 mph. When he's pressured or hit as he's thrown, he's still generating 48 mph velocity, which is top-end for a guy like Clayton Thorson (and many others).
So why is he funky? He has this thing where he SHOTPUTS his deep balls. It's almost like he's being challenged to see how HIGH he can throw a football. And trust me, it's pretty farking high. There was one in particular, about a 170 foot throw, the camera panned out wide so you could see just how high it went in the air, and I swear it was identical to a PUNT.
This has to be a coaching point. He's throwing 49 or even 50 mph on a 120 foot throw (absurd!!) but then on a 140 foot throw he's at 38 mph like he's Daniel Jones all the sudden? I understand putting more air under your deep throws to let a guy run under them, but he's going way too extreme and it has nothing to do with an inability to throw a deep ball.
Drew Brees is such an excellent deep ball thrower because he's mastered the art and arc of keeping these 140 to 170 foot throws to around 44-45 mph, which would be a "stick throw" speed for some guys. Drew can't really DRIVE the football the way others can, on the shorter throws. Trust me, I've sifted through so many of his throws, he can't do it. He tops out around 48 to 50 mph where SOME others can get 55-56 mph (e.g. Easton Stick). But what makes Drew's arm profile unique is how much he drives his deeper throws, and how effective they are.
That is something Easton Stick needs to learn and improve on. If he can do it, and make other improvements, he's got the pure talent to be up there with an Aaron Rodgers even, someone like that. I don't declare something like that lightly. He moves like Aaron Rodgers. He's an athlete like Aaron Rodgers. He has the pure arm talent to where he could throw like Aaron Rodgers. I'm not saying he IS Aaron Rodgers, because Rodgers is special for reasons other than his athleticism, elusiveness, and arm talent.
Still, what an intriguing combination on a player that, again indirectly via someone I know connected to Stick's trainer, is a really good guy with a good head on his shoulders, hard worker, winner that brought his team to the FCS Championship Game as a freshman in place of an injured Carson Wentz only to cede the starting spot back to Carson when he got healthy, without even a word...the maturity to do something like that...
Pachyderm_Wave
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I see too many instances of open receivers not getting the ball the more I look at Easton Stick's tape. He sees them open but doesn't throw it - standing there at the sticks for easy 1st downs. He passes them up for an opportunity to scramble around unnecessarily. He has to learn to get that ball out.
ckparrothead
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That's part of what is creeping me out.
There were very similar criticisms (not unfounded) about Aaron Rodgers coming out of Cal. Rodgers of course had all that mechanical weirdness coached into him by Jeff Tedford, but otherwise he was criticized for his deep ball accuracy (opposite problem from Stick, too much drive on his deep passes), his lack of anticipation, holding the football too long, and being thin for his height.
But the bottom line is, if you've got this sort of talent in your arm (that 4th & 20 throw against Delaware with 3 seconds left in the half was an all-timer), this sort of talent and elusiveness in your legs, gonna run a 4.6 or something like that, you're a guy that graduated Summa Cum Laude in only three years, been team captain three straight years, Academic All Conference five straight years, Deans List every single semester, won a championship, brought the team to another championship, seem poised to do it again this year, are 44-3 as the team's quarterback, beat Iowa as a sophomore...
You're gonna get a lot of chances to fix some of those problems.
There were very similar criticisms (not unfounded) about Aaron Rodgers coming out of Cal. Rodgers of course had all that mechanical weirdness coached into him by Jeff Tedford, but otherwise he was criticized for his deep ball accuracy (opposite problem from Stick, too much drive on his deep passes), his lack of anticipation, holding the football too long, and being thin for his height.
But the bottom line is, if you've got this sort of talent in your arm (that 4th & 20 throw against Delaware with 3 seconds left in the half was an all-timer), this sort of talent and elusiveness in your legs, gonna run a 4.6 or something like that, you're a guy that graduated Summa Cum Laude in only three years, been team captain three straight years, Academic All Conference five straight years, Deans List every single semester, won a championship, brought the team to another championship, seem poised to do it again this year, are 44-3 as the team's quarterback, beat Iowa as a sophomore...
You're gonna get a lot of chances to fix some of those problems.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I like his athleticism for the position. Certainly has room to progress as a decision maker - worth a shot.
I look at Will Grier and foresee a lot of bad sacks as his downfall at the next level. Just pointing out things that I personally wouldn't want to deal with...just kinda talking to myself. Don't pay me any attention...
I look at Will Grier and foresee a lot of bad sacks as his downfall at the next level. Just pointing out things that I personally wouldn't want to deal with...just kinda talking to myself. Don't pay me any attention...
ckparrothead
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I prefer it when you do that.
I'd love to say Will Grier's arm strength is essentially disqualifying. It very nearly is. But the bottom line is I disqualify him because he doesn't fit. He's a gunslinger with a peashooter. That doesn't seem like it'll work.
Generally speaking, I've seen every different kind of player make it. So it's hard to be all about one thing or one profile for a successful player. So to me the important thing is that the player fit what he's trying to be. Will Grier has that gunslinger's personality, attitude. But he's trying to do it with a weak arm. To me he'll be writing checks his arm can't cash. His only hope is that his legs can do it instead. I don't think he has THAT kind of ability in his legs/athleticism. Nor the right sort of athletic awareness.
I'd love to say Will Grier's arm strength is essentially disqualifying. It very nearly is. But the bottom line is I disqualify him because he doesn't fit. He's a gunslinger with a peashooter. That doesn't seem like it'll work.
Generally speaking, I've seen every different kind of player make it. So it's hard to be all about one thing or one profile for a successful player. So to me the important thing is that the player fit what he's trying to be. Will Grier has that gunslinger's personality, attitude. But he's trying to do it with a weak arm. To me he'll be writing checks his arm can't cash. His only hope is that his legs can do it instead. I don't think he has THAT kind of ability in his legs/athleticism. Nor the right sort of athletic awareness.
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