Smooth Tannehill T-Shirt

nyjunc

Hammered
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
33,756
Reaction score
117
Location
New York
I'm not sure any QB could make Dallas Thomas look better and nobody is disputing that RT has had some bad games in his career, but the insinuation that 08 CP could somehow be plugged into this offense and it would somehow be worth a few more wins is ABSURD.
he'd be worth more wins w/o a doubt. he was a much better QB than Ryan is, that's not even debatable. a healthy Chad P was a really good QB.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

In terms of time to make decisions yes. Chad was very smart with the football. Tannehill has come a long way with his decisions. Not to that level yet but he's young.
Ryan has improved each year no doubt about it. It's one of the reasons I said you may keep Philbin so you don't give him a 3rd system in 3 years BUT at some point the man has to step up ion a big game. Put all the excuses aside(valid or not) and go out and make plays to give his team a chance. He didn't do it last year and he hasn't done it this year. I still wouldn't give up on him but that is alarming.
 

MadDog 88

No Soup For You
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
17,368
Reaction score
1,792
Location
Lebanon, IL
how am i getting smoked? im just stating facts, pennington was good in the clutch down the stretch in 2008, tanny has failed in the clutch both in 2013 and 2014

i know i will get ganged up on by all the tannehill can do no wrong supporters, but it is what it is so far.

its just amusing ppl discrediting pennington for 2008 bc of a ''soft'' sched, yet when tannehill had a chance vs 2 below avg teams last year, only needing 1, not only did we not win any of them, but we scored 7 pts in 2 games. of course, according to many ppl on here, tannehill was the least of our problems in those games, i understand.

i will keep getting ''smoked'' if that is the case.
You bitch that people bring up the 08 soft schedule but you repeatedly fall back on the last 2 games last year. How is that any different?

Most of us agree on those games. Get over it and move forward. Talk about this season. Are you going to tell me the QB is not developing? What attributes does he need to clean up? Should we cut our losses and move on?
 

MadDog 88

No Soup For You
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
17,368
Reaction score
1,792
Location
Lebanon, IL
he'd be worth more wins w/o a doubt. he was a much better QB than Ryan is, that's not even debatable. a healthy Chad P was a really good QB.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------



Ryan has improved each year no doubt about it. It's one of the reasons I said you may keep Philbin so you don't give him a 3rd system in 3 years BUT at some point the man has to step up ion a big game. Put all the excuses aside(valid or not) and go out and make plays to give his team a chance. He didn't do it last year and he hasn't done it this year. I still wouldn't give up on him but that is alarming.
He's made big plays to put his team in position to win but the defense blew it. Sound familiar? He may not ever be a top 5 guy but you can win with an efficient game manager and he fits that category.
 

Ilovemyfins4eva

Starter
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
7,892
Reaction score
76
Age
29
Location
Long Island, NY
Again you just keep going back to "our QB vs their entire team." I wonder if you felt the same way in '96 when the Dolphins choked on applesauce in the back half of the season against 6-10 / 7-9 type of teams. Was it all on Dan that we couldn't put up points in those games?

I'm just asking for consistency here. You freely admit in one post that the idea that wins and losses and scoring output fall solely on the quarterback is wrong, and yet in all of your other posts you essentially use that as your entire line of attack.

Everything is being framed as a debate on #17 by some people and the only reason I even get into these debates now is because it permeates everything. Coach sucks? Sure. Can't block anyone? Granted. Brian Hartline is a bad receiver? Yep. Absolutely zero pass rush for half of the year? True. Rotating cast of 8th string cornerbacks? Yeah. Tomato can linebackers? That's a fact. And then you turn and complain, incessantly, all the time, that the QB is holding the team back.

It doesn't compute.
again, when i say the qb was a big part, that does not mean i am implying he was the ''only reason''.

but tannehill has played like garbage when it has mattered so far, and qbs do make a big difference on most weeks whether the team wins or loses. not saying the ''only '' reason, but it is the most important position on the field.

just look at the cardinals this year, they were looking awesome, then palmer goes down and now they r not feared in the least bit. not bc there defense is worse, but bc there qbs r trash now. look what happened last year when rodgers went down for the packers. that same team that rodgers was leading at 5-2, went to **** without him, and fortunately for them he was able to play the last game and save them, bc no team in that division would take advantage.

truth is most qbs in the nfl can have success with enough talent around them, its the special ones though that are able to take avg talent and make them look like pro bowlers. right now, tannehill is at the level of a guy who can prob have success if he has lots of talent around him, but the same can be said for most qbs. hes nothing special as of now is what i am trying to say, despite the many ppl on here who already believe he is proven and should have no competition next year bc its not warranted.

of course we have other problems on the team, no team is flawless, but a very good qb can take an avg team to the playoffs at least. i am not even saying superbowl here.
 

nyjunc

Hammered
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
33,756
Reaction score
117
Location
New York
He's made big plays to put his team in position to win but the defense blew it. Sound familiar? He may not ever be a top 5 guy but you can win with an efficient game manager and he fits that category.
the D blew a couple of but so did he. 3 and outs don't help, INTs don't help. He will never be a top 5 guy, he can be an efficient game manager and you can win big w/ those types but he's still developing into one.
 

Ilovemyfins4eva

Starter
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
7,892
Reaction score
76
Age
29
Location
Long Island, NY
You bitch that people bring up the 08 soft schedule but you repeatedly fall back on the last 2 games last year. How is that any different?

Most of us agree on those games. Get over it and move forward. Talk about this season. Are you going to tell me the QB is not developing? What attributes does he need to clean up? Should we cut our losses and move on?
i bring it up, because ppl r bashing pennington for doing basically what he was supposed to do, ''beating up on soft teams'', making it seem like it was a gimmee, yet when our current qb, whom many talk about on here as he is the 2nd coming, had the chance to beat up on garbage teams last year to make the playoffs, he failed miserably.

ill stop bringing it up though, i am happy to move on.

as for has tannehill improved ? truth is i was thinking he had, but he did the same thing he did last year in the clutch this year, his play went downhill again. he has still been inconsistent.
 

J. David Wannyheimer

None of my business.
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
28,865
Reaction score
11,683
just look at the cardinals this year, they were looking awesome, then palmer goes down and now they r not feared in the least bit.
They are 6-2 since Carson Palmer went down. Their 2 losses came on the road, and one of those games was @ Seattle. This is not a great example. That's a team that is 6-2 with poor QB play. That team is better coached and more talented than the Miami Dolphins across the board.

look what happened last year when rodgers went down for the packers. that same team that rodgers was leading at 5-2, went to **** without him, and fortunately for them he was able to play the last game and save them, bc no team in that division would take advantage.
Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace went a combined 0-2-1. Matt Flynn came in and did a credible job off the street, and won 2 games for them. If your argument is that Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace are bad enough that a decent NFL team can't win games with them at the helm, I agree. If you think that those 2 guys are comparable to Tannehill, I don't know what to say. Even if you think Tannehill is a marginal quarterback, those guys are clearly far worse than marginal. That's not really an apples to apples comparison.

If anything, I think the Packers comparison hurts your argument. Matt Flynn was not good in Seattle when he got on the field (pre-season) and he was not good in Oakland. Yet he was more than serviceable off the street in Green Bay, where he threw for 7 TDs to 4 INTs and producing a pretty good amount of points. He got much better after a couple of weeks back in the system, too. Their point totals in Flynn's starts: 10, 22, 37, 31. He was elevated by good coaching and talent around him.

Again, I am not saying Ryan is great. I have pretty consistently said that I think is a GOOD player with a poor supporting cast, and that I think he has the potential to do great things as he develops and as we improve the team around him. I think that's a reasonable position.
 

FearTheBeard

FearTheBurke
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4,323
Reaction score
244
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Why can't people understand that trying to make a comparison between a 7+ year vet and a 3rd year QB is not a fair comparison. It's asinine, it's such a simple factor that is constantly overlooked by his detractors and their unreachable expectations. There are no better options out there, he has grown year to year, he's the QB.

Stop comparing a 3rd year QB to what a guy has done over the course off 11 seasons. Stop saying that a guy like Pennington has earned his repuation, but Tannehill has not, when he's played 8 more seasons. It's not a fair comparison, it's baseless and about as well thought out as ilovefins4eva's use of the english language.
 

MadDog 88

No Soup For You
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
17,368
Reaction score
1,792
Location
Lebanon, IL
i bring it up, because ppl r bashing pennington for doing basically what he was supposed to do, ''beating up on soft teams'', making it seem like it was a gimmee, yet when our current qb, whom many talk about on here as he is the 2nd coming, had the chance to beat up on garbage teams last year to make the playoffs, he failed miserably.

ill stop bringing it up though, i am happy to move on.

as for has tannehill improved ? truth is i was thinking he had, but he did the same thing he did last year in the clutch this year, his play went downhill again. he has still been inconsistent.
Producing 21.6 PPG is hardly beating up on soft teams.

Last year the concern was holding the ball to long, taking to many sacks, not getting past his first read and the ever popular lack of pocket awareness. You don't see or hear that now. That's development. The mantra this season was 20 yard box. That is far from true and he showed it. Over the course of the last 2 games the trenches have imploded. #17 is far from the problem in those games.

If you can honestly look at the TV screen and say you see no development than there is nothing I can tell you because your mind is made up and no matter what he does, it won't be good enough.
 

roy_miami

2020 cant get here soon enough
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
11,154
Reaction score
732
Location
Moncton, NB
o great comeback, i only ****ing wish i can bring up one of tannehills playoff failures, but unfortunately there are none to bring up, bc u actually need to qualify for the playoffs in order to fail in the playoffs.

dont worry, he will be elite by the 2014 :lol::lol:
This dynamic where not getting to the playoffs >> playoff losses is very bizarre, and the reason Jay Cutler is an extremely rich man.
 

Ilovemyfins4eva

Starter
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
7,892
Reaction score
76
Age
29
Location
Long Island, NY
They are 6-2 since Carson Palmer went down. Their 2 losses came on the road, and one of those games was @ Seattle. This is not a great example. That's a team that is 6-2 with poor QB play. That team is better coached and more talented than the Miami Dolphins across the board.



Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace went a combined 0-2-1. Matt Flynn came in and did a credible job off the street, and won 2 games for them. If your argument is that Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace are bad enough that a decent NFL team can't win games with them at the helm, I agree. If you think that those 2 guys are comparable to Tannehill, I don't know what to say. Even if you think Tannehill is a marginal quarterback, those guys are clearly far worse than marginal. That's not really an apples to apples comparison.

If anything, I think the Packers comparison hurts your argument. Matt Flynn was not good in Seattle when he got on the field (pre-season) and he was not good in Oakland. Yet he was more than serviceable off the street in Green Bay, where he threw for 7 TDs to 4 INTs and producing a pretty good amount of points. He got much better after a couple of weeks back in the system, too. Their point totals in Flynn's starts: 10, 22, 37, 31. He was elevated by good coaching and talent around him.

Again, I am not saying Ryan is great. I have pretty consistently said that I think is a GOOD player with a poor supporting cast, and that I think he has the potential to do great things as he develops and as we improve the team around him. I think that's a reasonable position.
actually i think its a pretty good example, mainly bc that team was considered a superbowl contender with a healthy palmer, and once palmer went down, those dreams were shattered.

also, in those wins without palmer, they have scored 18 vs the giants, 23 vs the 49ers, 14 vs lions, 17 vs chiefs, and 12 vs the rams.

the cardinals r 7 pt underdogs this week at home vs the seahawks. that is how disrespected they r now without a qb. an 11-3 team at home is 7 pt underdogs.

also, the 1 game that the packers won with flynn scoring 37 pts, that game was amazing. i think they were down 24-3 at the half or something. a typical cowgirls choke in late december.

tannehill is leaps and bounds better than flynn, flynn ****ing blows. heck, id rather have henne than flynn , flynn is hot garbage.

ok, ur position is reasonable, i totally respect that, but then again, ur not talking him up to be this already proven great qb. there r ppl on here who already speak as if he is proven and is the 2nd coming .

right now he is mediocre. he has shown flashes, but hes inconsistent.
 

J. David Wannyheimer

None of my business.
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
28,865
Reaction score
11,683
actually i think its a pretty good example, mainly bc that team was considered a superbowl contender with a healthy palmer, and once palmer went down, those dreams were shattered.
Err, okay, but that's not really what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about that team's ability to win games, and how a quarterback can elevate the team to win more. They're still winning. You've put forth the argument that Carson Palmer made all the difference in the world to the Arizona Cardinals this season, when they were 5-1 with Palmer starting, and 6-2 with sub-replacement level scrubs starting. And, as you yourself point out, they played against BETTER defenses (SF, Det, Sea, StL) in those last eight games.

Just because you don't think they're a Super Bowl favorite, and I don't think they're a Super Bowl favorite, and Vegas has them as home dogs against Seattle this week, doesn't change that. That team is 6-2 without a quarterback, playing the tough stretch of their schedule. I'm sorry, but if anything, that is an argument that Carson Palmer doesn't mean that much to that team.
 

Ilovemyfins4eva

Starter
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
7,892
Reaction score
76
Age
29
Location
Long Island, NY
Producing 21.6 PPG is hardly beating up on soft teams.

Last year the concern was holding the ball to long, taking to many sacks, not getting past his first read and the ever popular lack of pocket awareness. You don't see or hear that now. That's development. The mantra this season was 20 yard box. That is far from true and he showed it. Over the course of the last 2 games the trenches have imploded. #17 is far from the problem in those games.

If you can honestly look at the TV screen and say you see no development than there is nothing I can tell you because your mind is made up and no matter what he does, it won't be good enough.
1 game of attempting a few deep balls does not mean he has showed it. in general, most of his completions r within a 20 yd box. not saying ''every single one of them'', but many r.

i will agree with u, his pocket awareness has been better than last year, no doubt, but last year was rock bottom. even if there r ''improvements'' they r not large enough in where its making a big difference. we r still going to finish in the same place as last year most likely with the same amount of wins or 1 more.

our defense has been crap the past few weeks, but the offense has not exactly done its part as well. same as last year when it mattered most for the offense, and that is frustrating.
 

Ilovemyfins4eva

Starter
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
7,892
Reaction score
76
Age
29
Location
Long Island, NY
Err, okay, but that's not really what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about that team's ability to win games, and how a quarterback can elevate the team to win more. They're still winning. You've put forth the argument that Carson Palmer made all the difference in the world to the Arizona Cardinals this season, when they were 5-1 with Palmer starting, and 6-2 with sub-replacement level scrubs starting. And, as you yourself point out, they played against BETTER defenses (SF, Det, Sea, StL) in those last eight games.

Just because you don't think they're a Super Bowl favorite, and I don't think they're a Super Bowl favorite, and Vegas has them as home dogs against Seattle this week, doesn't change that. That team is 6-2 without a quarterback, playing the tough stretch of their schedule. I'm sorry, but if anything, that is an argument that Carson Palmer doesn't mean that much to that team.
ok, thats ur opinion and that is fine. i do believe he matters, bc there is just no way they r getting by in the playoffs no matter where the game is played, unless there defense turns into the 85 bears. they basically have no margin for error on defense now bc they r playing without a qb pretty much.

will see though, it shall be interesting to see what happens with them. im rooting for them, it would be nice to see, but just cant see it
 
Top Bottom