So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think? | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think?

Arizona doing their damnedest to convince everyone they're not interested in Kyler Murray.

They're very convincing.

I think the incentives are aligned with them insisting Josh Rosen is the guy until the moment when he's not, though. That's the problem for me. If they really want to convince me then they need to have no contact with Murray at the Combine, Pro Day, or otherwise. No visits, nothing.
 
You have to think the Dolphins brass talked to Murray during the Orange Bowl, I’m sure they talked to Tua also. They probably have the inside track on both of them since they both played at Dolphins stadium. Grier and Flores are all in on one of them, but who that is is anybody’s guess.
 
I'm buying it from AZ but I'm not banking on it. Frankly I don't think Murray slips out of the top 5 either way. I'd be excited if he did, but the problem is the hype train is rolling and this QB class just isn't that good.
 
When a QB class does not have a sure fire elite top overall prospect, we tend to invent one. This is what is happening with Kyler Murray. He's not going top 5, and he will unlikely go top 10. I don't really think Miami will draft him if he's available because it goes against everything Chris Grier has been taught in his career. I'm not that high on him. He's too small, lacks the top shelf accuracy and feel for the pocket that he will need to succeed at his size, and lacks the intangibles I want to see in my QB. I have a feeling that if Miami were to pick Murray, it would be an ownership driven decision. Maybe not, but I struggle to see Chris Grier taking Kyler Murray knowing who Chris's scouting mentors are. Particularly when drafting Kyler Murray means you are out on next year's class all together, even though some strangely think it's a great idea to throw away draft picks by selecting QBs with first round picks in consecutive drafts.
 
When a QB class does not have a sure fire elite top overall prospect, we tend to invent one. This is what is happening with Kyler Murray. He's not going top 5, and he will unlikely go top 10. I don't really think Miami will draft him if he's available because it goes against everything Chris Grier has been taught in his career. I'm not that high on him. He's too small, lacks the top shelf accuracy and feel for the pocket that he will need to succeed at his size, and lacks the intangibles I want to see in my QB. I have a feeling that if Miami were to pick Murray, it would be an ownership driven decision. Maybe not, but I struggle to see Chris Grier taking Kyler Murray knowing who Chris's scouting mentors are. Particularly when drafting Kyler Murray means you are out on next year's class all together, even though some strangely think it's a great idea to throw away draft picks by selecting QBs with first round picks in consecutive drafts.

Besides Luck - when was the last sure fire elite QB prospect? If that's your bar, it's impossibly high.

If he falls to 13, I will be shocked, and then disappointed if we don't take him. I agree him and Grier don't see to be a match waiting to happen, but he has fantastic feel for the pocket. It sounds like you're just higher on next year's class wherein there is really only one "can't miss" prospect, and that's Tua, and he'll be going #1.
 
When a QB class does not have a sure fire elite top overall prospect, we tend to invent one. This is what is happening with Kyler Murray. He's not going top 5, and he will unlikely go top 10. I don't really think Miami will draft him if he's available because it goes against everything Chris Grier has been taught in his career. I'm not that high on him. He's too small, lacks the top shelf accuracy and feel for the pocket that he will need to succeed at his size, and lacks the intangibles I want to see in my QB. I have a feeling that if Miami were to pick Murray, it would be an ownership driven decision. Maybe not, but I struggle to see Chris Grier taking Kyler Murray knowing who Chris's scouting mentors are. Particularly when drafting Kyler Murray means you are out on next year's class all together, even though some strangely think it's a great idea to throw away draft picks by selecting QBs with first round picks in consecutive drafts.


I think there's some truth to this. I've never been as completely sold on Kyler Murray as his biggest supporters are. I do see some concerns with him other than size - mainly tight window throws - I think there could be some issues there. However, I think your post in a larger sense detracts a little too much from what Murray is, and can do.

Furthermore, I don't believe for one second ownership could make worse draft decisions than Miami's GM and scouting department. I just don't. I would certainly consider taking Murray at #13 if certain players I like more are already gone. I've always had him somewhere in that 26-45 range overall. Add in the inflation value for the position he plays along with his unique skillset and it's possible Murray fans like CK and J-doll could talk me into it on the clock if certain players at other positions are already gone. I think he could be worth the risk, but specifically for a team like Miami. What are they afraid of....being mediocre and irrelevant for 3 decades in a row instead of 2? Miami needs to be focusing on quarterbacks that are prepared to move and deal with pressure. They can't build a bomb shelter of an offensive line good enough to allow the type of QB they've been smitten with to have all day to throw and be successful.

However, I wouldn't do it at the cost of being out on next year's quarterbacks. Tua is the best tight window thrower in the country. I wouldn't take myself out of that sweepstakes at all if I was Miami, and Murray doesn't unless he's an absolute star as a rookie. Although I'd also hate to see Tua go to an organization like Miami also.
 
You're projecting into the future, making crap up and passing it off as an "absolute."

In "college" last year Murray wasn't even among to the top 250 hitters in batting average or top 150 hitters in home runs. Maybe should wait to see if he could hit a curve in AA before giving him a 10-15 year, 20-30 home run per year career.

Murray had an uncle drafted #7 in the MLB draft and his professional career consisted of 288 total games. That equates to 1.78 seasons worth of games.

Not saying he couldn't have a decent career in MLB, just a little too early to be throwing out "absolutes."

I understand what you are saying, but in contrast, have you ever hit a baseball from a quality pitcher? I was a good HS and Division 3 baseball player but wouldn't come close to successfully hitting his level.
And what you said above is what a lot of scouts said about Mookie Betts when the Sox drafted him 5th round in 2011, in case you didn't know he just was named MVP, batting champion, WS Champ, a gold glove and a silver slugger award in 2018. He went from obscurity to one of the best players in baseball over the past 7 years of coaching and minor league ball...will that mean the same for Murray? Who knows, but I do know with the right coaching and training, he could ABSOLUTELY turn into a 20-30 HR hitter annually in the majors and I'm sticking with that...
 
Flirting with Murray does keep him in the spotlight - keeps him relevant thereby increasing the
I think there's some truth to this. I've never been as completely sold on Kyler Murray as his biggest supporters are. I do see some concerns with him other than size - mainly tight window throws - I think there could be some issues there. However, I think your post in a larger sense detracts a little too much from what Murray is, and can do.

Furthermore, I don't believe for one second ownership could make worse draft decisions than Miami's GM and scouting department. I just don't. I would certainly consider taking Murray at #13 if certain players I like more are already gone. I've always had him somewhere in that 26-45 range overall. Add in the inflation value for the position he plays along with his unique skillset and it's possible Murray fans like CK and J-doll could talk me into it on the clock if certain players at other positions are already gone. I think he could be worth the risk, but specifically for a team like Miami. What are they afraid of....being mediocre and irrelevant for 3 decades in a row instead of 2? Miami needs to be focusing on quarterbacks that are prepared to move and deal with pressure. They can't build a bomb shelter of an offensive line good enough to allow the type of QB they've been smitten with to have all day to throw and be successful.

However, I wouldn't do it at the cost of being out on next year's quarterbacks. Tua is the best tight window thrower in the country. I wouldn't take myself out of that sweepstakes at all if I was Miami, and Murray doesn't unless he's an absolute star as a rookie. Although I'd also hate to see Tua go to an organization like Miami also.

With regards to that last sentence, hopefully Tua can transcend 25 years of incompetence.
As for Murray, his supporters must recognize the difference between drafting Murray at #13 and giving up significant assets to move up.
 
I think there's some truth to this. I've never been as completely sold on Kyler Murray as his biggest supporters are. I do see some concerns with him other than size - mainly tight window throws - I think there could be some issues there. However, I think your post in a larger sense detracts a little too much from what Murray is, and can do.

Furthermore, I don't believe for one second ownership could make worse draft decisions than Miami's GM and scouting department. I just don't. I would certainly consider taking Murray at #13 if certain players I like more are already gone. I've always had him somewhere in that 26-45 range overall. Add in the inflation value for the position he plays along with his unique skillset and it's possible Murray fans like CK and J-doll could talk me into it on the clock if certain players at other positions are already gone. I think he could be worth the risk, but specifically for a team like Miami. What are they afraid of....being mediocre and irrelevant for 3 decades in a row instead of 2? Miami needs to be focusing on quarterbacks that are prepared to move and deal with pressure. They can't build a bomb shelter of an offensive line good enough to allow the type of QB they've been smitten with to have all day to throw and be successful.

However, I wouldn't do it at the cost of being out on next year's quarterbacks. Tua is the best tight window thrower in the country. I wouldn't take myself out of that sweepstakes at all if I was Miami, and Murray doesn't unless he's an absolute star as a rookie. Although I'd also hate to see Tua go to an organization like Miami also.

I see Murray as you said, a product of some QB inflation ratio rather than properly deserving that vaunted draft value like the other QB you mentioned. We mention "unique skillset", and "risky proposition" in the valuation of Murray, not just here but all over the draft-universe he ticks all the exceptions. You draft Murray and hope to god that all those risky traits and unique abilities translate to elite NFL play, and not fall flat on their faces in stiff opposition, like the 1st half of the Bama game.
 
I would absolutely love if the Dolphins took Murray. LOVE IT. I think he can revitalize this franchise in a way we haven't seen in some time.

That said, I see some big problems with fans hoping for Murray this draft. I see the possibility of the Dolphins drafting him as extremely remote (universe, please prove me wrong).
  • Brian Flores has worked all over the ball, but in interviews his most obvious knowledge base is Defense. We have multiple holes on that side of the ball, with more popping up after we cut guys. We also have no young leadership on D (not yet, Minkah).
  • With this team's slow and steady build approach, a trade up would mortgage too many assets for a rebuild, especially in 2020 when the team will likely have a high pick.
  • 1/3 of the teams in the league pick before us, and beyond the teams with obvious holes at QB several of those teams are in "we aren't in LOVE with our current guy" ruts, like the Bengals and Raiders.
  • Kyler Murray brings instant buzz to your team's marketing plan, which actually matters to NFL owners in a way that could influence the draft. Posters may laugh this one off, but they underestimate how meddling some of this league's owners are in their draft decisions.
  • If Haskins goes early (and you know he will), there is a mega steep drop in QB talent that the current mock drafts are not properly telegraphing. If fans see the lackluster tape from Lock and Jones, you know talent evaluators do as well.
  • It's my experience that the combine and interviews favor guys like Murray who have huge question marks. Talent evaluators are only human and when you start with low expectations on a prospect it allows for people to think they've found a gem and go all in.
This is to say I don't see Murray falling to 13, I don't see the team mortgaging the assets necessary to trade up for him, and I frankly see the prospect of a talented defensive prospect falling to 13 as too shiny an object to Flores and company. Furthermore, if I were Grier and I was REALLY all in on a rebuild, I'd put my money where my mouth was and trade as many picks in this draft for 2020 picks. You buy yourself an extra year of job security and a built in excuse for losing this season.
 
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