So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think? | Page 14 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think?

Aqua and Orange said:
I would absolutely love if the Dolphins took Murray. LOVE IT. I think he can revitalize this franchise in a way we haven't seen in some time.

That said, I see some big problems with fans hoping for Murray this draft. I see the possibility of the Dolphins drafting him as extremely remote (universe, please prove me wrong).
  • Brian Flores has worked all over the ball, but in interviews his most obvious knowledge base is Defense. We have multiple holes on that side of the ball, with more popping up after we cut guys. We also have no young leadership on D (not yet, Minkah).
  • With this team's slow and steady build approach, a trade up would mortgage too many assets for a rebuild, especially in 2020 when the team will likely have a high pick.
  • 1/3 of the teams in the league pick before us, and beyond the teams with obvious holes at QB several of those teams are in "we aren't in LOVE with our current guy" ruts, like the Bengals and Raiders.
  • Kyler Murray brings instant buzz to your team's marketing plan, which actually matters to NFL owners in a way that could influence the draft. Posters may laugh this one off, but they underestimate how meddling some of this league's owners are in their draft decisions.
  • If Haskins goes early (and you know he will), there is a mega steep drop in QB talent that the current mock drafts are not properly telegraphing. If fans see the lackluster tape from Lock and Jones, you know talent evaluators do as well.
  • It's my experience that the combine and interviews favor guys like Murray who have huge question marks. Talent evaluators are only human and when you start with low expectations on a prospect it allows for people to think they've found a gem and go all in.
This is to say I don't see Murray falling to 13, I don't see the team mortgaging the assets necessary to trade up for him, and I frankly see the prospect of a talented defensive prospect falling to 13 as too shiny an object to Flores and company. Furthermore, if I were Grier and I was REALLY all in on a rebuild, I'd put my money where my mouth was and trade as many picks in this draft for 2020 picks. You buy yourself an extra year of job security and a built in excuse for losing this season.
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if QBs don't go early in the first, then your going to have all the blu chips swooped up, leaving you with a defender that is probably not blue, and Murray..I know I would take that shot up against a non blue chip talent.
 
ckparrothead said:
There's also a load of analytical stuff from Hayden Winks about this class versus the last class:





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Ranking the two classes based on these charts:

1-5

1. Murray
2. Darnold
3. Jones
4. Jackson, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen
8. Haskins, Lock

6-10

1. Jackson
2. Mayfield
3. Murray
4. Haskins
5. Allen
6. Darnold, Jones
8. Lock, Rosen

11-15

1. Mayfield
2. Murray
3. Jackson, Rosen
5. Darnold
6. Haskins
7. Allen, Lock
9. Jones

16-20

1. Rosen
2. Allen
3. Mayfield, Murray
5. Haskins
6. Lock
7. Jackson, Jones
9. Darnold

20+

1. Murray
2. Lock
3. Haskins
4. Mayfield
5. Jones
6. Darnold
7. Allen
8. Jackson
9. Rosen
 



If you have the time, watch the first play in this vid..Look at the presnap work, the communication, and the decisiveness.

Then watch at 3:02..the quickness and strike off the RPO, look at that footwork, 0 hesitation, 0 wasted motion..6 points.


at 4:06 you will see how Murray deals with his height deficiency on a quick screen pass..shortstop converting the double play style, and simply because of how fast he gets the ball to his receiver on that screen, it’s 6 points with any receiver who’s got some speed.


Watch the play at 8:50 to see him throw from a different arm angle directly in the middle of the pocket throwing to the middle of the field accurately..once again dealing with his perceived weakness in a personal way..

Also in the audio you hear one of the commentators say that he’s fortunate that Lincoln Reilly’s allows him to sit in the qb room during game week, he says “how incredibly bright Murray is”

This may not be just a special physical specimen.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I think there's some truth to this. I've never been as completely sold on Kyler Murray as his biggest supporters are. I do see some concerns with him other than size - mainly tight window throws - I think there could be some issues there. However, I think your post in a larger sense detracts a little too much from what Murray is, and can do.

Furthermore, I don't believe for one second ownership could make worse draft decisions than Miami's GM and scouting department. I just don't. I would certainly consider taking Murray at #13 if certain players I like more are already gone. I've always had him somewhere in that 26-45 range overall. Add in the inflation value for the position he plays along with his unique skillset and it's possible Murray fans like CK and J-doll could talk me into it on the clock if certain players at other positions are already gone. I think he could be worth the risk, but specifically for a team like Miami. What are they afraid of....being mediocre and irrelevant for 3 decades in a row instead of 2? Miami needs to be focusing on quarterbacks that are prepared to move and deal with pressure. They can't build a bomb shelter of an offensive line good enough to allow the type of QB they've been smitten with to have all day to throw and be successful.

However, I wouldn't do it at the cost of being out on next year's quarterbacks. Tua is the best tight window thrower in the country. I wouldn't take myself out of that sweepstakes at all if I was Miami, and Murray doesn't unless he's an absolute star as a rookie. Although I'd also hate to see Tua go to an organization like Miami also.
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I think in theory, it sounds great to be able to say if Murray flops as a rookie, you just draft Tua next year. In reality though, no NFL team thinks that way, and you don't give up on a young quarterback that you have invested a 1st round pick into that soon. So from that standpoint, if you take Kyler Murray at 13, then he's the guy you are hooking your wagon up to. It will definitely take you out of the 2020 quarterback draft class.

There are too many bright red lights that scream risk when I look at Kyler Murray. Everything from his size to what you are going to have to do with your offense from a scheme standpoint to accommodate his lack of height, there is an incredible amount of risk with drafting him.

I also don't believe that taking a "mobile" quarterback helps out offensive line issues. Russell Wilson is mobile, and he's the most sacked quarterback in the NFL over the past 5 years. Mobile quarterbacks tend to create their own pressure problems by not having enough pocket discipline, and I think this is clearly an issue with Kyler Murray. He consistently drops his eyes when faced with pressure. In fact, I would say mobile quarterbacks tend to exacerbate OL issues rather than mitigate them.

Tua is a mobile quarterback, but you do not see him drop his eyes and look to run vs pressure. You see him make subtle movements in the pocket. He will side step a rusher while keeping his eyes down the field. He will climb the pocket. Kyler really doesn't do either of these on a consistent basis. It's basically a situation where he will give up on the pass and rely on his legs, and I think this is a strong negative trait for a QB.

I've got my flag planted firmly in the I am not taking Kyler Murray in the first round hill.
 
People are freaking stupid if they value Murray over Tua...but hey,stupid is the dolphins way.
 
Namor said:
People are freaking stupid if they value Murray over Tua...but hey,stupid is the dolphins way.
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Murray is a potential elite QB so is Tua. I don't think you have to choose. Its just who do you have a shot at? Also, tua seems less durable then Murray. I know people seem to think otherwise but that's not history
 
Just wait...time seperates everything.
 
KB21 said:
I think in theory, it sounds great to be able to say if Murray flops as a rookie, you just draft Tua next year. In reality though, no NFL team thinks that way, and you don't give up on a young quarterback that you have invested a 1st round pick into that soon. So from that standpoint, if you take Kyler Murray at 13, then he's the guy you are hooking your wagon up to. It will definitely take you out of the 2020 quarterback draft class.

There are too many bright red lights that scream risk when I look at Kyler Murray. Everything from his size to what you are going to have to do with your offense from a scheme standpoint to accommodate his lack of height, there is an incredible amount of risk with drafting him.

I also don't believe that taking a "mobile" quarterback helps out offensive line issues. Russell Wilson is mobile, and he's the most sacked quarterback in the NFL over the past 5 years. Mobile quarterbacks tend to create their own pressure problems by not having enough pocket discipline, and I think this is clearly an issue with Kyler Murray. He consistently drops his eyes when faced with pressure. In fact, I would say mobile quarterbacks tend to exacerbate OL issues rather than mitigate them.

Tua is a mobile quarterback, but you do not see him drop his eyes and look to run vs pressure. You see him make subtle movements in the pocket. He will side step a rusher while keeping his eyes down the field. He will climb the pocket. Kyler really doesn't do either of these on a consistent basis. It's basically a situation where he will give up on the pass and rely on his legs, and I think this is a strong negative trait for a QB.

I've got my flag planted firmly in the I am not taking Kyler Murray in the first round hill.
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In 2017 Mayfield took a sack once every 18 dropbacks. In 2018 Murray took a sack once every 26 dropbacks.

Wilson has played with one of the worst offensive lines in the league, in an offense that consistently puts him in 3rd and longs after running the ball on 1st and 2nd down at one of the highest rates in the league. Wilson also happens to be one of the best QB's in the league, and if Murray ended up that good, any team would be happy spending a Top 10 pick on that.
 
I can’t wait for the combine. I want to see all of Murray’s measurements from his hand size to his weight. Looks like he has smallish hands.
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
In the right system, Murray is a transcendent talent.
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If that's the case, then why isn't he the consensus #1 overall pick right now?

I get that people WANT him to be a transcendent talent. If he were a transcendent talent though, there would be no doubts about him at this point. He's not Andrew Luck. He's also not as good of a prospect as Baker Mayfield.

As far as the comparison to Russell Wilson, I'll say this. Russell is a great QB, but he's also clearly an exception to the rule when it comes to quarterbacks at that size. Russell Wilson also has ELITE accuracy and ELITE anticipation in the passing game, neither of which Kyler Murray has at this point.

Now Tua may indeed be a transcendent talent in next year's draft. Right now, there's no doubt that he will be the #1 overall pick when he decides to come out. Trevor Lawrence is even moreso a transcendent talent. Kyler is not in either's class as a prospect.
 
mrbunglez said:
I can’t wait for the combine. I want to see all of Murray’s measurements from his hand size to his weight. Looks like he has smallish hands.
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What’s interesting about that is that since high school he’s been holding the ball with one hand as he displays his agility for defenders to miss, because of his inner confidence in his abilities, he just doesn’t feel like it’s a problem, It’s almost a ****y element to his game, but also a way to use as balance..my point is, he holds the ball like he’s got stickum on his hand and you would think with small hands that would be a problem... it hasn’t up until this point, he only had 3 turnovers last year.

I have a feeling based on his physique and other physical attributes he’s very strong with a strong grip, when he throws the ball it looks very light in his hand..
 
j-off-her-doll said:


In 2017 Mayfield took a sack once every 18 dropbacks. In 2018 Murray took a sack once every 26 dropbacks.

Wilson has played with one of the worst offensive lines in the league, in an offense that consistently puts him in 3rd and longs after running the ball on 1st and 2nd down at one of the highest rates in the league. Wilson also happens to be one of the best QB's in the league, and if Murray ended up that good, any team would be happy spending a Top 10 pick on that.
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KB21 said:
If that's the case, then why isn't he the consensus #1 overall pick right now?

I get that people WANT him to be a transcendent talent. If he were a transcendent talent though, there would be no doubts about him at this point. He's not Andrew Luck. He's also not as good of a prospect as Baker Mayfield.

As far as the comparison to Russell Wilson, I'll say this. Russell is a great QB, but he's also clearly an exception to the rule when it comes to quarterbacks at that size. Russell Wilson also has ELITE accuracy and ELITE anticipation in the passing game, neither of which Kyler Murray has at this point.

Now Tua may indeed be a transcendent talent in next year's draft. Right now, there's no doubt that he will be the #1 overall pick when he decides to come out. Trevor Lawrence is even moreso a transcendent talent. Kyler is not in either's class as a prospect.
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First of all, Russell Wilson is most likely in the HOF when it’s all said and done.

Second of all, Kyler Murray is a much better prospect than Russell Wilson was.

If Kyler was 2 inches taller, he’d be the #1 overall pick, in the same class of Tua and Trevor and there wouldn’t be all this fuss about it.

The only reason we may have a slim chance of getting him is those two inches, that in reality, have never had any impact on his ability to succeed at the position.

That’s a value proposition that makes me salivate as a team picking outside the top 10 in need of a QB.
 
KB21 said:
If that's the case, then why isn't he the consensus #1 overall pick right now?

I get that people WANT him to be a transcendent talent. If he were a transcendent talent though, there would be no doubts about him at this point. He's not Andrew Luck. He's also not as good of a prospect as Baker Mayfield.

As far as the comparison to Russell Wilson, I'll say this. Russell is a great QB, but he's also clearly an exception to the rule when it comes to quarterbacks at that size. Russell Wilson also has ELITE accuracy and ELITE anticipation in the passing game, neither of which Kyler Murray has at this point.

Now Tua may indeed be a transcendent talent in next year's draft. Right now, there's no doubt that he will be the #1 overall pick when he decides to come out. Trevor Lawrence is even moreso a transcendent talent. Kyler is not in either's class as a prospect.
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I have seen a few mocks that have Arizona taking Murray #1 overall. I don't think that necessarily will happen, but he is likely going top 10. I say the right system because that means so much to all these quarterbacks. Tom Brady, if drafted by Cleveland, might have been out of the league in a few years much like Tim Couch, who took an absolute beating there. I remember people talking about Steve Young as a bust when he was struggling badly with Tampa Bay. He ends up having a Hall of Fame career with a stacked SF team.

In the case of Murray, I agree he's not Baker Mayfield from a passing standpoint. But, his ability to run the football might be the best we've seen since a Michael Vick. In that sense, defenses have to account for his rare athletic ability, which will help open up the passing game. The main concerns with Murray are legitimate. Can he take a beating in the NFL? Could he ultimately decide on baseball down the road?
 
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