So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think? | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So...kyler Murray Has Declared. What Does Everyone Think?

He’s not an NFL QB but his ego and his greed is leading him. He’ll be “rededicating” or whatever himself to baseball after this fling is over.
 
LoneStarPhin said:
He’s not an NFL QB but his ego and his greed is leading him. He’ll be “rededicating” or whatever himself to baseball after this fling is over.
Click to expand...

Always makes you nervous when a guy that's the head of your program has another option. Makes you wonder how much will he truly commit to the position and the organization. Especially, when things get tough.
 
He won't be there at thirteen. I mean game thirteen. He will be knocked out of the league. It's not worth a critical pick. That show ends badly. You have to draft to maximize your quarterback, give him targets. In this case, the quarterback is the target and you have to lean heavily, and I think too much so, into protecting him. Or he will get busted up. And go play baseball.
 
If he's still there you have to think about taking him. And are we really going into the season with Falk, Fales or Osweiler as the starter? Sure doesn't sound like we're going to sign a FA.
 
The Goat said:
Disagree strongly here. And this is what bugs me: Kyler Murray isn’t a run-first QB. He’s good in the pocket, he’s smart at finding throwing lanes. He’s EXCELLENT at seeing blitzes and reading defenses pre-snap.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don’t know how well he moves through his reads. He really hasn’t had to go all the way through his progressions.

What I have seen in my amateur opinion is this: He’s a pocket QB, but when the opportunity presents itself, he pulls it down and takes the yards that are there. His arm and vision are excellent. He’s not as fast as Vick was, and his arm isn’t quite on that level, but he’s more accurate.

He’s certainly not the product of a system, so I don’t think there’s a “figuring him out” factor. And he’s not a short athlete playing QB. He’s a QB who happens to be short, who is also tremendously athletic.

Is he a risk? Sure. So is almost every QB. But I really feel the juice is worth the squeeze and n this case.
Click to expand...

Makes me happy to read that. Like I said, I don't know. All i have is youtube. I, unfortunately, can't watch much college ball and lose heart doing so anyways as a Canes fan.
 
Kyler Murray is QB1 in this draft and worthy of a #1 overall selection. Over the last 15 years I've had nine other QB1's worthy of that distinction, not all of them have panned out of course, one failed pretty spectacularly, but I think Kyler's talent is every bit worthy of the company of others in that group, like Phil Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Cam Newton, and even Andrew Luck.

The Cardinals should take him and monetize Josh Rosen. They can fetch a nice price for him considering his competition will be Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, and Daniel Jones. Josh Rosen rates better than every one of those, even after a poor rookie year.

But if the Cardinals get cute with that #1 overall pick thinking they can make something happen with the #33 overall pick, then that gives Miami the opportunity to pounce. I would do everything in my power to protect the 2020 first round pick since the team seems to think it will be bad in 2019. However, in the end, getting the player is more important.

I don't like this fast and easy assumption that Tua Tagovailoa comes out way ahead of Kyler Murray if you were to compare the two in-depth. If your assumption is the height disparity automatically separates them, I can understand that, although I do not agree with it. But anyone who watched Tua struggle against Georgia and then struggle against Clemson has to be wondering what happens when he's not front-running anymore.

If you watched the 2018 season, you saw what Kyler Murray does when the other team takes the lead, or puts a heavy amount of strain on the scoreboard. He had to put up MASSIVE offense Every. Single. Game. If they didn't, they lost, because the defense was bad in an historical sense. You can complain about the quality of the defenses they faced, and that's valid, but he still hung 34 up on Bama without the help of running backs or his top wide receiver Marquise Brown, who was actually a deep NEGATIVE for the game. It took him two drives to get acclimated to what Bama's defense brought to the table, and no he wasn't perfect from then on, but every drive either ended in a touchdown, or had been stopped by failures around him rather than failures on his part.

As usual, when a player is extremely good, extremely high rated, you could really go on about the substance in his game for a LONG time, as it will encompass many aspects and a sh-t ton of nuance. He has that. The deeper you go, the more quality it gets.

But, you can see for yourself. If you've got the time and commitment.



I'll clue you in on what you're NOT seeing in the above video, things you'll only see if you watched every snap of the OU offense in 2018:
  • You're not seeing the dozens of times he made a pre-snap read, opting into a successful run play.
  • You're not seeing how Murray's execution of run plays, which leaned on his abilities viz a viz RPOs, option pitches, and zone reads, allowed a freshman 3rd stringer like Kennedy Brooks to amass 1,056 rushing yards on nine yards per carry.
  • You're not seeing the dozens of times he made a pre-snap adjustment to move receivers out wider, change the alignment of the tight ends or fullback, or make a mirror call, based on what he was seeing in the defense, all of which generally enhanced the spacing and allowed Trey Sermon and Kennedy Brooks to not miss a beat when their stud RB Rodney Anderson went down.
  • You're not necessarily seeing how clear and prolific he was in his pre-snap communication to the various players on the offense.
  • You're not seeing his reaction in-between plays to players that make a mistake, or the way that he got players back to the task at hand when emotions threatened to get the better of them (e.g. Cody Ford and CeeDee Lamb against Texas Tech).
  • You're not hearing the dozens of interesting nuggets dropped by the broadcast crew, who typically spend the week prior to the game interviewing coaches and players so that they can drop items on-air, like the fact that a number of defensive coordinators they've spoken to believe Kyler Murray was running the Lincoln Riley offense far better than Baker Mayfield did, or Bob Stoops describing how Lincoln still lets him sit in on QB meetings and the thing that always strikes him is how incredibly intelligent and on top of everything Kyler Murray is, etc.
As I said, with Kyler Murray, the deeper you go, the better it gets.

Read about his high school practice habits, how he would unilaterally cancel the unit's 5 minute breaks between drills because he was disappointed with execution or intensity, how he would keep players after practice to continue working, how he would get on players for mistakes, how he doesn't understand guys who "flip the switch" or are "gamers" because his switch is flipped at all times, every rep of every practice.

Think about how he got drafted by the MLB at 9th overall in June of 2018, after having practiced as the Oklahoma Sooners' starting quarterback through Spring, how MLB has a long-established history of asking their football/baseball guys once they draft them and sign contracts to STOP playing football and begin immediately earning that baseball contract, getting a jump start on the time when Kyler can get through arbitration into his BIG payday (the $200 million type contracts everyone goes on about)...and how he put all of that off, stood up to the MLB teams, and told them he had COMMITTED to playing a year of football for the Oklahoma Sooners, and he is going to honor that commitment.

Talk about 'team over self', as Brian Flores has put it.

I saw a poster in here talk about how people often overlook what an incredible high school prospect he was. That's a great point. Never lost a game as a starter. Arguably the best high school football player in Texas state history. Texas!!! I know some people like Awsi are pretty big on pedigree, on career track. Best high school player in the history of one of the best high school football states in the country...goes on to win the Heisman and will his team into the BCS four-team playoff despite an historically bad offense. That's a career track.

Of course, I guess you could just overlook all this because you're "nervous" about his being 3/4ths of an inch shorter than Hall of Fame caliber QB Russell Wilson. That's what it amounts to, incidentally. Russell Wilson was 5105 and 203 lbs at the Senior Bowl, was 5105 and 204 lbs at the Combine. Kyler Murray is 5097 in socks, according to his head OU trainer. Wilson told Dan Patrick months ago that his playing weight was 195 lbs. He told Sirius XM recently during Super Bowl week that he's up to 200 lbs. And if you've watched that video of him throwing to Antonio Brown during workouts, if you've looked at his neck during his interviews, you know he is indeed putting on some weight in prep for the Combine. Quite frankly I wonder if he'll even come in any lighter than Russell Wilson did.

I see the sentiment that this is exactly the type of prospect Miami takes and gets burned for and I'm puzzled. Miami has drafted 13 quarterbacks...SINCE DAN MARINO IN 1983.

Personally I only count 12 of them, since Pat White was always to be a Wildcat specialist. Which I vehemently disagreed with, by the way, since I always viewed the Wildcat as a specialty power run formation (it was single-wing, FFS) and it made absolutely no sense to use a guy of Pat White's stature as the trigger man in a power running specialty formation.

Kyler Murray is exactly the kind of guy Miami does NOT take, because they don't have any balls. Just as they did NOT take Aaron Rodgers in 2005, just as Bill Parcells did NOT take Matt Ryan in 2008, because both Nick Saban's and Bill Parcells's priorities when they got here were to build a team FIRST, and THEN get the quarterback (sound familiar?).

Kyler Murray is exactly the kind of guy Miami passively looked on as he got snatched up by a competent team with a set of stones like the Kansas City Chiefs, when they traded up and grabbed Patrick Mahomes.

I remember when Miami thought it was "too risky" to sign Drew Brees. I mean, that's exactly the kind of player the Dolphins get burned for taking a chance on, no?

Oh but of course, go on with the delusion that Miami are going to get a crack at Tua Tagovailoa or Trevor Lawrence. That definitely happens to teams if they "want it" badly enough. Definitely. Counting on getting the #1 overall pick is definitely NOT akin to setting aside five thousand bucks on lottery tickets so that you can plan your dream vacation.

Lord knows Miami has terrible luck with players that are regarded to be way, way, WAY too short or thin for their position. They do a lot better with prototypes like Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor.
 
Last edited:
Great post CK, I'll be waiting for a legitimate rebuttal. But won't see one height this, height that, too small this, too small that, kids a winner plain and simple. I'm on board the Murray train for sure, your in depth analysis just reaffirmed what my eyes have been telling me, thanks again for your efforts.
 
So then, is this draft where we grow a pair and sell the farm?

And assuming he is going 1, what does it take?
 
ckparrothead said:
Kyler Murray is QB1 in this draft and worthy of a #1 overall selection. Over the last 15 years I've had nine other QB1's worthy of that distinction, not all of them have panned out of course, one failed pretty spectacularly, but I think Kyler's talent is every bit worthy of the company of others in that group, like Phil Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Cam Newton, and even Andrew Luck.

The Cardinals should take him and monetize Josh Rosen. They can fetch a nice price for him considering his competition will be Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, and Daniel Jones. Josh Rosen rates better than every one of those, even after a poor rookie year.

But if the Cardinals get cute with that #1 overall pick thinking they can make something happen with the #33 overall pick, then that gives Miami the opportunity to pounce. I would do everything in my power to protect the 2020 first round pick since the team seems to think it will be bad in 2019. However, in the end, getting the player is more important.

I don't like this fast and easy assumption that Tua Tagovailoa comes out way ahead of Kyler Murray if you were to compare the two in-depth. If your assumption is the height disparity automatically separates them, I can understand that, although I do not agree with it. But anyone who watched Tua struggle against Georgia and then struggle against Clemson has to be wondering what happens when he's not front-running anymore.

If you watched the 2018 season, you saw what Kyler Murray does when the other team takes the lead, or puts a heavy amount of strain on the scoreboard. He had to put up MASSIVE offense Every. Single. Game. If they didn't, they lost, because the defense was bad in an historical sense. You can complain about the quality of the defenses they faced, and that's valid, but he still hung 34 up on Bama without the help of running backs or his top wide receiver Marquise Brown, who was actually a deep NEGATIVE for the game. It took him two drives to get acclimated to what Bama's defense brought to the table, and no he wasn't perfect from then on, but every drive either ended in a touchdown, or had been stopped by failures around him rather than failures on his part.

As usual, when a player is extremely good, extremely high rated, you could really go on about the substance in his game for a LONG time, as it will encompass many aspects and a sh-t ton of nuance. He has that. The deeper you go, the more quality it gets.

But, you can see for yourself. If you've got the time and commitment.



I'll clue you in on what you're NOT seeing in the above video, things you'll only see if you watched every snap of the OU offense in 2018:
  • You're not seeing the dozens of times he made a pre-snap read, opting into a successful run play.
  • You're not seeing how Murray's execution of run plays, which leaned on his abilities viz a viz RPOs, option pitches, and zone reads, allowed a freshman 3rd stringer like Kennedy Brooks to amass 1,056 rushing yards on nine yards per carry.
  • You're not seeing the dozens of times he made a pre-snap adjustment to move receivers out wider, change the alignment of the tight ends or fullback, or make a mirror call, based on what he was seeing in the defense, all of which generally enhanced the spacing and allowed Trey Sermon and Kennedy Brooks to not miss a beat when their stud RB Rodney Anderson went down.
  • You're not necessarily seeing how clear and prolific he was in his pre-snap communication to the various players on the offense.
  • You're not seeing his reaction in-between plays to players that make a mistake, or the way that he got players back to the task at hand when emotions threatened to get the better of them (e.g. Cody Ford and CeeDee Lamb against Texas Tech).
  • You're not hearing the dozens of interesting nuggets dropped by the broadcast crew, who typically spend the week prior to the game interviewing coaches and players so that they can drop items on-air, like the fact that a number of defensive coordinators they've spoken to believe Kyler Murray was running the Lincoln Riley offense far better than Baker Mayfield did, or Bob Stoops describing how Lincoln still lets him sit in on QB meetings and the thing that always strikes him is how incredibly intelligent and on top of everything Kyler Murray is, etc.
As I said, with Kyler Murray, the deeper you go, the better it gets.

Read about his high school practice habits, how he would unilaterally cancel the unit's 5 minute breaks between drills because he was disappointed with execution or intensity, how he would keep players after practice to continue working, how he would get on players for mistakes, how he doesn't understand guys who "flip the switch" or are "gamers" because his switch is flipped at all times, every rep of every practice.

Think about how he got drafted by the MLB at 9th overall in June of 2018, after having practiced as the Oklahoma Sooners' starting quarterback through Spring, how MLB has a long-established history of asking their football/baseball guys once they draft them and sign contracts to STOP playing football and begin immediately earning that baseball contract, getting a jump start on the time when Kyler can get through arbitration into his BIG payday (the $200 million type contracts everyone goes on about)...and how he put all of that off, stood up to the MLB teams, and told them he had COMMITTED to playing a year of football for the Oklahoma Sooners, and he is going to honor that commitment.

Talk about 'team over self', as Brian Flores has put it.

I saw a poster in here talk about how people often overlook what an incredible high school prospect he was. That's a great point. Never lost a game as a starter. Arguably the best high school football player in Texas state history. Texas!!! I know some people like Awsi are pretty big on pedigree, on career track. Best high school player in the history of one of the best high school football states in the country...goes on to win the Heisman and will his team into the BCS four-team playoff despite an historically bad offense. That's a career track.

Of course, I guess you could just overlook all this because you're "nervous" about his being 3/4ths of an inch shorter than Hall of Fame caliber QB Russell Wilson. That's what it amounts to, incidentally. Russell Wilson was 5105 and 203 lbs at the Senior Bowl, was 5105 and 204 lbs at the Combine. Kyler Murray is 5097 in socks, according to his head OU trainer. Wilson told Dan Patrick months ago that his playing weight was 195 lbs. He told Sirius XM recently during Super Bowl week that he's up to 200 lbs. And if you've watched that video of him throwing to Antonio Brown during workouts, if you've looked at his neck during his interviews, you know he is indeed putting on some weight in prep for the Combine. Quite frankly I wonder if he'll even come in any lighter than Russell Wilson did.

I see the sentiment that this is exactly the type of prospect Miami takes and gets burned for and I'm puzzled. Miami has drafted 13 quarterbacks...SINCE DAN MARINO IN 1983.

Personally I only count 12 of them, since Pat White was always to be a Wildcat specialist. Which I vehemently disagreed with, by the way, since I always viewed the Wildcat as a specialty power run formation (it was single-wing, FFS) and it made absolutely no sense to use a guy of Pat White's stature as the trigger man in a power running specialty formation.

Kyler Murray is exactly the kind of guy Miami does NOT take, because they don't have any balls. Just as they did NOT take Aaron Rodgers in 2005, just as Bill Parcells did NOT take Matt Ryan in 2008, because both Nick Saban's and Bill Parcells's priorities when they got here were to build a team FIRST, and THEN get the quarterback (sound familiar?).

Kyler Murray is exactly the kind of guy Miami passively looked on as he got snatched up by a competent team with a set of stones like the Kansas City Chiefs, when they traded up and grabbed Patrick Mahomes.

I remember when Miami thought it was "too risky" to sign Drew Brees. I mean, that's exactly the kind of player the Dolphins get burned for taking a chance on, no?

Oh but of course, go on with the delusion that Miami are going to get a crack at Tua Tagovailoa or Trevor Lawrence. That definitely happens to teams if they "want it" badly enough. Definitely. Counting on getting the #1 overall pick is definitely NOT akin to setting aside five thousand bucks on lottery tickets so that you can plan your dream vacation.

Lord knows Miami has terrible luck with players that are regarded to be way, way, WAY too short or thin for their position. They do a lot better with prototypes like Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor.
Click to expand...


Tons of excellent details, CK. I agree with, what I'll call, the thesis of your post: the deeper you get into Murray, the more he impresses, the more he looks like a super-elite prospect. I had a disagreement with Kevin Cole, who I like very well, on Twitter about Murray vs Mayfield as physical prospects. He said he'd take Mayfield height and weight over Murray's athleticism and arm talent. Keeping in mind that I had Mayfield as QB1 and thought the Browns made the right pick, I argued that Murray's overall physical profile is much better. He is literally the quickest QB I have ever watched. It's hard to quantify how important, not to mention impressive, that is. People credit Oklahoma's OL for his willingness to hold the ball for extended periods, but I think it has much more to do with his understanding of how easily he can elude DL. The long TD vs Alabama is a perfect example. Most QB's curl up in a ball when a free rusher comes up the middle, but he was no issue for Murray. It didn't even break his rhythm. While his long speed is outstanding and will create some big plays, his quickness is more pertinent on a play-to-play basis. He has feet like Floyd Mayweather.

The only legitimate knock that I see against Murray is the one year of experience; however, given how masterfully he played and given his greatness at every level, it's not enough to even temper my enthusiasm. I'd put him right there with any of the top QB prospects of the decade. For people doubting he ability to anticipate or go through progressions, they just need to watch his TD passes in the Big 12 Championship - vs the same Texas D that gave Fromm fits.
 
marino13zach54 said:
So then, is this draft where we grow a pair and sell the farm?

And assuming he is going 1, what does it take?
Click to expand...

If we've got to go to #1 overall then I think it's just done. Chalk it up. You can't win them all. If the Cardinals really do have their mind set on him, they're not selling him out from under themselves.

If you really fear the Raiders getting him at #4 overall and you know the Jets won't play ball with you at #3 overall, then there's no way for Miami to induce the Cardinals to go all the way from #1 overall where they can get a Nick Bosa or Quinnen Williams, down to #13 overall where they'll have to live with...I dunno exactly...Christian Wilkins I suppose? It's not very common for a team that high to trade directly to a spot that low.

You'd have to pull off something like the Eagles did in 2016 for Carson Wentz, which is a trade in stages. You move up, perhaps by trading assets like Kenny Stills, Kiko Alonso, perhaps Josh Sitton if you've already paid his $2.0 million roster bonus. And THEN you have to strike all the way up to perhaps #2 overall with the 49ers, by trading present and future picks.

Even in that scenario, going up to #1 overall doesn't seem likely. If the Cardinals want him they're not going to trade him away.
 
artdnj said:
He won't be there at 13 but would be within our grasp but we'll have to give up the farm. Curious to see what our regime thinks about him. Combine will be telling he'll either drop a tad or climb drastically
Click to expand...
After the combine, he will shoot up draft boards. He will be a combine warrior.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom