So was Chad Henne the problem all along? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So was Chad Henne the problem all along?

Irony ... every Exploding Head & his cousin ... have come out of the woodwork, because of a good solid victory over a decent team that was depleted ... starting threads on the same worn-out topics ....

And what do they want? ... keep the same crappola folks who have led us to 7-9, 7-9, & 4-8 !!!

There Oughta Be A Law!! :lol2:
 
Just some food for thought -

Our running attack is much better now than it was earlier in the season. Why? Our offensive line looks *light years* better than it did in the beginning of the season. Jake Long now is way beyond where he was at the beginning of the season. Matt Moore is definitely playing better than I would have imagined, but he's getting some serious help from his supporting cast. I mean, Reggie Bush has 2 100 yard games this year... versus his ONE *ever* in New Orleans.

Sparano needs to go. His game day management is atrocious. The team loves the guy and he's clearly great at motivation and execution (Lack of penalties, our offensive lines dedication to gap control, etc) but we will never be a consistent playoff team with him.

He's too much of a coward, as much as I hate to say it like that. If we could keep Nolan and Daboll and ditch Sparano, I'd be all for it.
 
Ok, so 15-9 when he coached a team that wasnt Qb'd by Chad Henne...

If Moore had played under Henning he wouldn't win a game. Not one.
 
Just some food for thought -

Our running attack is much better now than it was earlier in the season. Why? Our offensive line looks *light years* better than it did in the beginning of the season. Jake Long now is way beyond where he was at the beginning of the season. Matt Moore is definitely playing better than I would have imagined, but he's getting some serious help from his supporting cast. I mean, Reggie Bush has 2 100 yard games this year... versus his ONE *ever* in New Orleans.

Sparano needs to go. His game day management is atrocious. The team loves the guy and he's clearly great at motivation and execution (Lack of penalties, our offensive lines dedication to gap control, etc) but we will never be a consistent playoff team with him.

He's too much of a coward, as much as I hate to say it like that. If we could keep Nolan and Daboll and ditch Sparano, I'd be all for it.

I really hope that no one is fooled by what has happened. Sparano IS a huge problem.
 
2008: Chad Pennington was the starting QB, and we went 11-5, and won the AFC East.

2009 & 2010 & Early 2011: Chad Henne was the starting QB, and we struggle.

Late 2011: Matt Moore takes over, and we start turning things around, and are now back to looking like a winning team.

So was Chad Henne the problem all along?

Matt Moore now is a lot like Henne 2 years ago(and like Moore 2 years ago in Carolina), came into a no lose situation where the team was not expected to win so he didn't have the pressure of expectations to win. It's a different ballgame whne you are expected to win, ask Moore about the differences btw '09 and '10, ask henne about the differences btw '09 and '10, ask Josh Freeman in TB, ask Ryan Fitzpatrick. Guys like Henne, Moore will be excellent backups, can they lead a team from day 1 when they are expected to win? The final chapter hasn't been written but so far the answer is no.
 
The same people defending The Meatball and saying give him another year will do the samething next year when he starts out like garbage! Fear of change, fear of the unknown! They have convinced themselves a new HC means blowing it up and can't wrap their minds about losing their favorite mediocre player.
 
Matt Moore now is a lot like Henne 2 years ago(and like Moore 2 years ago in Carolina), came into a no lose situation where the team was not expected to win so he didn't have the pressure of expectations to win. It's a different ballgame whne you are expected to win, ask Moore about the differences btw '09 and '10, ask henne about the differences btw '09 and '10, ask Josh Freeman in TB, ask Ryan Fitzpatrick. Guys like Henne, Moore will be excellent backups, can they lead a team from day 1 when they are expected to win? The final chapter hasn't been written but so far the answer is no.

No pressure? Really?

Here's a guy who was a QB stud most of his life. He was a top 7-11 nationally ranked high school QB prospect coming out of the hotbed of high school football in So Cal including winning the Div 3 Championship after taking his team 13-0 and also named Farwest player of the year. PacWest rated him a 4-star QB. He was all-pac10 and set various Oregon passing records while there. Even in Dec 07, he was NFL offensive rookie of the month.

Bottom line: here's a guy who was among the elite all his life who ended up being bypassed in the draft. It was a cruel awakening. Well he lit it up over his 5 game audition in 09, going 4-1 to bring a poor Carolina team up to 8-8. In 09 he was concussed.. and that's the major reason why his play fell off so badly. Let me repeat that slowly.. he was concussed and pressed back into action!

So you have a guy who just turned 27 and after being "the man" most of his life now finds himself very close to being stereotyped as a "journeyman" and signed as a free agent for a relative pittance. He's got limited auditions left to disprove that assumption. So when thrown into a winless, low morale situation with players grumbling as the opportunity to prove himself, he was dealt a bad hand. It's not like he was Curtis Painter or Caleb Haine. If he was both those teams would be doing better, you can bet on that! If starting for a winless team, with the way the league perceives your future at stake and fans in the stands wearing "suck for luck" tee shirts and rooting for you to lose... hell if that's not pressure packed, then I don't know what the **** is!!!!!

Now compare that to the pressure of a QB who know from past experience that no matter how badly he craps the bed, his team has been good enough to carry him, his HC is an enabler who rarely takes him to task, and realistically that the only practical option to replace him is 3 years away from his AARP card. Comparatively where's the pressure there? If Moore played for that particular team with that little pressure to perform, that particular team would be closer to 11-2 than 7-5.

 
2008: Chad Pennington was the starting QB, and we went 11-5, and won the AFC East.

2009 & 2010 & Early 2011: Chad Henne was the starting QB, and we struggle.

Late 2011: Matt Moore takes over, and we start turning things around, and are now back to looking like a winning team.

So was Chad Henne the problem all along?

Just a reminder we have beaten 3 teams with losing records, and one that has a winning record in a bad division.
 
Matt Moore has a better passer rating in his 1st year as Fin then Henne had after 3 years of experience.

Last year under Henne we scored 17 points a game. In Matt Moore's 8 starts we are averaging 22 points a game.

Last year under Henne we scored 24 TD's and settled for 41 FG attempts, this year more balanced 24 TD's already with 4 games to play and only 29 FG attempts.

While Henne was playing better this year he still couldn't seem to play well in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

As far as the Defense effecting the comparison between the two, I don't think there is a big effect here.

Last year we went on a 5 game stretch where we held opponents to 69 points ending with the win over the Jets 10-6.
At that time our scoring defense was 8th ranked and giving up 18.7 points per game for the season.

This year we went on a 5 game stretch where we held opponents to 54 points.
Currently we have the 5th ranked scoring defense and are giving up 18.3 points per game for the season.

So the defense is very similar to last years. I see a definite improvement with Moore over Henne.

But now the real test comes. How will Moore do against Brady and Sanchez?
 
No pressure? Really?

Here's a guy who was a QB stud most of his life. He was a top 7-11 nationally ranked high school QB prospect coming out of the hotbed of high school football in So Cal including winning the Div 3 Championship after taking his team 13-0 and also named Farwest player of the year. PacWest rated him a 4-star QB. He was all-pac10 and set various Oregon passing records while there. Even in Dec 07, he was NFL offensive rookie of the month.

Bottom line: here's a guy who was among the elite all his life who ended up being bypassed in the draft. It was a cruel awakening. Well he lit it up over his 5 game audition in 09, going 4-1 to bring a poor Carolina team up to 8-8. In 09 he was concussed.. and that's the major reason why his play fell off so badly. Let me repeat that slowly.. he was concussed and pressed back into action!

So you have a guy who just turned 27 and after being "the man" most of his life now finds himself very close to being stereotyped as a "journeyman" and signed as a free agent for a relative pittance. He's got limited auditions left to disprove that assumption. So when thrown into a winless, low morale situation with players grumbling as the opportunity to prove himself, he was dealt a bad hand. It's not like he was Curtis Painter or Caleb Haine. If he was both those teams would be doing better, you can bet on that! If starting for a winless team, with the way the league perceives your future at stake and fans in the stands wearing "suck for luck" tee shirts and rooting for you to lose... hell if that's not pressure packed, then I don't know what the **** is!!!!!

Now compare that to the pressure of a QB who know from past experience that no matter how badly he craps the bed, his team has been good enough to carry him, his HC is an enabler who rarely takes him to task, and realistically that the only practical option to replace him is 3 years away from his AARP card. Comparatively where's the pressure there? If Moore played for that particular team with that little pressure to perform, that particular team would be closer to 11-2 than 7-5.


2009 Carolina Panthers
4-7 before Matt Moore becomes the starter
Moore: 79-126, 63%, 990 yds, 8 TDs, 1 INT, 104.9 rating, led team to 4-1 record

2010 Matt Moore starting from day 1:

74-133, 56%, 822 yds, 5 TDs, 8 INTs, 61.7 rating, led team to 1-5 record


Maybe things are different this time? so you hope but much likie the Bills fans w/ Fitz last year this looks like a QB playing w/ no pressure to win putting up some good #s and winning some meaningless games.
 
2009 Carolina Panthers
4-7 before Matt Moore becomes the starter
Moore: 79-126, 63%, 990 yds, 8 TDs, 1 INT, 104.9 rating, led team to 4-1 record

2010 Matt Moore starting from day 1:

74-133, 56%, 822 yds, 5 TDs, 8 INTs, 61.7 rating, led team to 1-5 record


Maybe things are different this time? so you hope but much likie the Bills fans w/ Fitz last year this looks like a QB playing w/ no pressure to win putting up some good #s and winning some meaningless games.

Again: the key phrase is "post concussion" But then again Moore's record last season was about the equivalent of a never-concussed Cam Newton's on an upgraded team, through a comparable multiple of time. Does he suck too?

Reality: a 27 year old stud through most of his life with little opportunity left to prove he's not the journeyman the league is now stereotyping him as, coming in to a possible "last chance" for a demoralized winless team with fans in the stadium rooting for him to lose has less pressure than a mediocre "franchise" QB who no matter how badly he's **** the bed knows his team will again carry him, gets enabled by his HC and knows that it'll be a cold day in July before his AARP-age, backup will ever come in to replace him? I think not.
 
Again: the key phrase is "post concussion" But then again Moore's record last season was about the equivalent of a never-concussed Cam Newton's on an upgraded team, through a comparable multiple of time. Does he suck too?

Reality: a 27 year old stud through most of his life with little opportunity left to prove he's not the journeyman the league is now stereotyping him as, coming in to a possible "last chance" for a demoralized winless team with fans in the stadium rooting for him to lose has less pressure than a mediocre "franchise" QB who no matter how badly he's **** the bed knows his team will again carry him, gets enabled by his HC and knows that it'll be a cold day in July before his AARP-age, backup will ever come in to replace him? I think not.

Please don't compare Matt Moore to Cam Newton.

Cam Newton is a freak. He's got the raw potential to be great in a way that's almost hard to fathom, and he's already playing up to some of that potential.

Matt Moore's a good guy and playing pretty good ball right now, but you can't compare him to Cam Newton. If you wouldn't swap Moore for Newton right now in a heartbeat, I really wonder if you've watched Cam Newton at all.
 
No pressure? Really?

Here's a guy who was a QB stud most of his life. He was a top 7-11 nationally ranked high school QB prospect coming out of the hotbed of high school football in So Cal including winning the Div 3 Championship after taking his team 13-0 and also named Farwest player of the year. PacWest rated him a 4-star QB. He was all-pac10 and set various Oregon passing records while there. Even in Dec 07, he was NFL offensive rookie of the month.

Bottom line: here's a guy who was among the elite all his life who ended up being bypassed in the draft. It was a cruel awakening. Well he lit it up over his 5 game audition in 09, going 4-1 to bring a poor Carolina team up to 8-8. In 09 he was concussed.. and that's the major reason why his play fell off so badly. Let me repeat that slowly.. he was concussed and pressed back into action!

So you have a guy who just turned 27 and after being "the man" most of his life now finds himself very close to being stereotyped as a "journeyman" and signed as a free agent for a relative pittance. He's got limited auditions left to disprove that assumption. So when thrown into a winless, low morale situation with players grumbling as the opportunity to prove himself, he was dealt a bad hand. It's not like he was Curtis Painter or Caleb Haine. If he was both those teams would be doing better, you can bet on that! If starting for a winless team, with the way the league perceives your future at stake and fans in the stands wearing "suck for luck" tee shirts and rooting for you to lose... hell if that's not pressure packed, then I don't know what the **** is!!!!!

Now compare that to the pressure of a QB who know from past experience that no matter how badly he craps the bed, his team has been good enough to carry him, his HC is an enabler who rarely takes him to task, and realistically that the only practical option to replace him is 3 years away from his AARP card. Comparatively where's the pressure there? If Moore played for that particular team with that little pressure to perform, that particular team would be closer to 11-2 than 7-5.


Matt looks good and is getting better. However, we need to see more and more good games from him. I still can't erase the early games in Carolina last season. Yes, the owner saved his money, but Moore was given his chance to lead and stunk it up, being replaced by Jimmy Clausen, who stunk it up as well.
 
Please don't compare Matt Moore to Cam Newton.

Cam Newton is a freak. He's got the raw potential to be great in a way that's almost hard to fathom, and he's already playing up to some of that potential.

Matt Moore's a good guy and playing pretty good ball right now, but you can't compare him to Cam Newton. If you wouldn't swap Moore for Newton right now in a heartbeat, I really wonder if you've watched Cam Newton at all.

I'm not, just comparing the Moore post-concussion results with a team that won 2 whole games vs the bottom-line Cam results with more to work with that have not been much better - and likely would have been worse if Cam was a traditional QB who couldn't put up those rushing numbers. Just offering up some perspective for Moore's fall off in 10 vs the encouraging 09 because few want to credit him for his accomplishments over a limited sample yet are quick to tar him for his failures again over a limited sampling.
 
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