So... we kept Grier. Let's take a second look. | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So... we kept Grier. Let's take a second look.

rickd13 said:
Really? How so? What was this master plan that Grier devised?
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I don't know and neither do you!
Just going off on a hyperbolic binge and claiming there was no plan is presumptive in the "extreme".

Just in case you are wondering about "extreme", it's the part of your body that you sit on! - LOL
 
Ray R said:
I don't know and neither do you!
Just going off on a hyperbolic binge and claiming there was no plan is presumptive in the "extreme".

Just in case you are wondering about "extreme", it's the part of your body that you sit on! - LOL
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Once again, your posts are some of the strangest drivel I’ve seen on here. So you admit Grier’s plan isn’t evident to you also. I rest my case.
 
rickd13 said:
Then why didn’t they play Rosen and find out what they had in a season they had already decided that they were blowing up their roster and rebuilding? How do the two things they did at QB make sense? Either play the young guy you traded for or don’t bother tearing your roster down. Grier tried to middle it once again. Just freaking admit it. He doesn’t have a grand plan and the guy is a failure at building a team and finding a head coach to lead it.
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I was one of those who wanted to see Rosen on the field but I think we should all be able to recognize by now that the coaches probably had a pretty good idea that the kid was not a NFL player by what they saw on the practice field. The only reason hes gotten multiple chances is because of the toolset and the fact that every offensive coach thinks they're the one that can redeem the unredeemable. It would be a shock if hes still in the league next year.

Even in the Rosen situation which worked out about as poorly as you could possibly expect I don't fault Grier's thinking. Rosen was almost certainly not part of the grand plan but when the opportunity rose to grab a QB who was one year removed from being viewed as an elite prospect he couldn't pass it up. In hindsight we all wish that he had done a better job scouting and come to the same conclusion that the Cardinals already had. Still, if the Phins were in the same situation today and the Bears decided to give up on Fields you'd have to go for it.
 
Ferretsquig said:
I think this is a whole lot of confusing the outcome having the benefit of hindsight with the plan.

It is true they had a horrible offensive line, a single dynamic weapon, and no running game. Was that the truth 6 months ago? I seem to remember having the deepest WR core most fans had ever seen, a young and talented offensive line, and a couple versatile backs that would help augment the passing game. They had an offensive coach that was a delightful departure from the staid and unimaginative Gailey.

Why would you think that Grier saw it any differently?

They had a plan and that plan failed. I'm not a fan of keeping Grier since there have been so many failings during his tenure. That being said throughout this process it has always seemed to be an organization with a clear plan and one I thought was the right approach. After decades of these half hearted rebuilds they finally tore things down completely and rebuilt from scratch. To me the main takeaway from this last three year stretch is that you can build a team in that span of time if you maintain discipline and have the backing of ownership. Of course you still need a whole lot of luck but it is possible.
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Yikes this is revisionist history… 6 months ago everyone (with a clue) was on record saying we were going to have the worst RB room in the NFL and I clearly remember discussing with a few posters that a lot hinged on the development of our OL - we weren’t 100% sure what we had.

Everyone was disappointed by the OC choice. Everyone was questionable about the OL choice.

The only thing that people were optimistic on was the WR room but again, a lot of us pointed out that it was a very injury prone group.

These were common discussions.

Chris Grier got every GMs perfect dream… full ability to wipe the slate clean and start over with intentionality. And in year 3, we went into it KNOWING we had the worst RB room in the NFL with an inexperienced OL and young QB… the only part I would say is *a little unlucky* is that all the injury prone WRs got injured… but is that unlucky, or just the most likely scenario.

Chris Grier is not a complete failure… 2021 draft was a home run… but the dude is so mediocre it hurts.

He will always do just enough to skirt by.
You seem people like this in every business. He is no different.
 
Libermaniac said:
Honestly it doesn’t seem like Grier has ever been “in charge” of the draft. It seems that he collaborates closely with the coach and get players the coach wants. I have to say, he’s made two tremendous trades in the Tunsil deal and getting 3 SF firsts for dropping down from 3 to 12.
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Yeah, I'd like to know more about this myself, but thought working in tandem with HC was good way to go about the rebuild. Time now to be the boss though. Sure, work with coaches, but make all the calls. I always liked that Grier came up through scouting and personnel roles to become a GM. But I would think many gms would, don't know.
 
There have been some good arguments in Grier's favor in this thread, he has made some good picks. This last draft was a breath of fresh air but we did have 4 picks in the first two rounds. Overall though I don't see how his rating isn't mediocre at best based on the fact we are a mediocre organization that has barely sniffed the playoffs in his tenure. He's hired the wrong coaches, whiffed in free agency more often than not, failed to build a top notch O-line which would improve the performance of the QB, RB's and WR/TE's. The 2020 draft stings, 3 first rounders and he failed. That was a big part of our "early" draft capital the last 2 years and he whiffed. We were counting on him to make the right QB decision, to be above the fan's chanting of Tank for Tua, but in the end he just went with the expected "safe" pick who happened to be coming off major injury. The others aren't even debatable. I also agree that his philosophy is all over the board, I guess depending on who the coach is, getting their buy in.

I don't mind the guy and there are some picks in his favor, a few free agent signings. He's just never put it all together and we just rarely seem to get the top of the line guys that really break out (Herbert, Jefferson, Taylor) usually settling for Wilkins types that 3-4 years in may develop. For the life of me I just don't get our luck in the draft, the last time we drafted someone that made the rest of the league jealous was Marino. That's quite a few drafts ago. Not all Grier obviously but until he can put it all together and get us out of bad to mediocre range I just can't give him a grade more than that same range.
 
...for the foreseeable future our draft history is certified fail because we missed on Herbert.

Oh I know the cult will get their pitchforks out but it's an undisputed fact in NFL circles that Herbert is an emerging Monster -- and l'il Tua is...well, a nice kid but seriously outchassed at the NFL level. The TN game was just embarrassing and proof we gotta move on.

Have a nice day!

BNF
 
Feverdream said:
It has always seemed like a lot of the Grier criticism came down to a couple of things. Many Finheavenites were either a) Upset because he didn't draft specific players/positions that they, personally, wanted or b) They wanted the entire rookie squad to play like seasoned veterans right out of the box. So I decided to take another look at the previous three draft classes.

2019
Round 1 (13): DI Christian Wilkins, Clemson (Just had an excellent season. Top 4 in tackles. Increasing pass rush presence)
Round 3 (78): G Michael Deiter, Wisconsin (Mediocre starting Center)
Round 5 (151): LB Andrew Van Ginkel, Wisconsin (a flat steal)
Round 6 (202): OT Isaiah Prince, Ohio State (currently with the Bengals, and starting)
Round 7 (233): FB Chandler Cox, Auburn (out of the NFL)
Round 7 (234): RB Myles Gaskin, Washington (sometime starter, better 3rd down back)
UDFAs: Nik Needham, Patrick Laird, Jonathan Ledbetter, Chris Myarick, and Preston Williams (Needham starting nickel back, the others have played some)

In retrospect, this was not a bad draft at all. Wilkins has become one of the best DTs in the league, Dieter is a league average sort of player as a third rounder, and Van Ginkle and Needham have wildly outplayed their draft positions).

2020
  • Round 1, Pick No. 5: Tua Tagavailoa, QB, Alabama (Sure, I would have taken Herbert, but Tua hasn't been awful. This isn't a Haskins pick)
  • Round 1, Pick No. 18: Austin Jackson, OT, USC (Beginning to look like a questionable pick, although he did play better in '20 than '21)
  • Round 1, Pick No. 30: Noah Igbinoghene, CB, Auburn (not looking good)
  • Round 2, Pick No. 39: Robert Hunt, G, Louisiana-Lafayette (extremely solid pick)
  • Round 2, Pick No. 56: Raekwon Davis, DT, Alabama (was a star in '20, took a step back this year. Still looks solid)
  • Round 3, Pick No. 70: Brandon Jones, S, Texas (third safety so far, probably starts next year)
  • Round 4, Pick No. 111: Solomon Kindley, G, Georgia (not looking good)
  • Round 5, Pick No. 154: Jason Strowbridge, DE, North Carolina (currently a free agent)
  • Round 5, Pick No. 164: Curtis Weaver, OLB, Boise State (practice squad Browns)
  • Round 6, Pick No. 185: Blake Ferguson, LS, LSU (starting on special teams. Solid)
  • Round 7, Pick No. 246: Malcolm Perry, WR, Navy (practice squad Patriots)
  • UDFAs: Not much. Benito Jones and Kirk Merritt are still around, but neither looks like a future player.
This draft will always be defined by Tua. If he succeeds next year, this is a decent draft, despite the Igbinoghene reach. Jackson had a decent season, followed by a bad one, and it's unknown what a better Offensive Line coach will be able to get out of him. Hunt has been really good, and Jones and Davis have been solid. Some people bitched because of the Ferguson pick, but he's still with us and contributing-- unlike Strowbridge, Weaver, and Perry. This draft was one of those, hit, then miss drafts, but in the long run... it's ALL about the decision to draft Tua over Herbert.

2021

  • 6th Overall Selection (R1-P6): Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama
  • 18th Overall Selection (R1-P18): Jaelan Phillips, EDGE, Miami
  • 36th Overall Selection (R2-P4, from Houston): Jevon Holland, S, Oregon
  • 42nd Overall Selection (R2-P10, from N.Y. Giants): Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame
  • 81st Overall Selection (R3-P18): Hunter Long, TE, Boston College
  • 231st Overall Selection (R7-P3, from Houston): Larnel Coleman, OT, Massachusetts
  • 244th Overall Selection (R7-P16, from Washington): Gerrid Doaks, RB, Cincinnati
Whew... this one was a home run, just one of the best drafts that we've EVER had! The top three all look like future Pro Bowl players. Eichenberg was bounced all over the place and survived despite playing the only position that no draft tout thought he was suited for (LT). Next year, expect him to start on the right side, next to Hunt. The Long pick looks like a miss, but only because like Iggy in 2019, we didn't really need him. He may end up being a player, but we have not seen anything yet. Coleman went to IR after a decent camp and may replace Davis at swing tackle next year. Doaks must not have shown much... as bad as our rushing attack was, we never once thought about using him.

So... you and I may disagree over this or that player, but I really don't see how anyone can consider these three draft classes as an abject failure. Many of our best players came directly from Chris Grier's drafts. When you consider the rest of what he's done-- getting us so far under the cap and generally getting decent returns on his trades.... I just don't see where all of the anti-Grier sentiment comes from. Even the Free Agent signings have proven reasonably safe... only the Byron Jones signing was for longer than two years and the Ogbah signing has been a godsend. Stealing Seiler from the Ravens and then signing him to a below market contract was a gift. Butler, Riley... several others have provided valuable downs as back up players.

Why have we underwhelmed? The Offensive Line. ...and it may be argued that the problem here is that our coaching was really poor-- not really his fault.
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AWESOME thread Brother!
 
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