So... we kept Grier. Let's take a second look. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So... we kept Grier. Let's take a second look.

ForksPhin

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The problem with that approach is that you can always do that... with any GM or any draft.

Were all 26 of the GMs who passed on Dan Marino stupid? Or all 20 of the GMs who passed on Randy Moss?

This approach assumes that 'everybody knew'... and that just aint so. If you have a GM who hits on most of his picks, then you've got a good one.
Fair. Except for the fact that some of his most glaring misses were very closely followed by significantly better picks.

He drafted Austin Jackson - who was followed closely by Justin Jefferson, Cesar Ruiz, Brandon Aiyuk, and Patrick Queen.

He drafted Noah Igbinoghene - who was followed closely by CEH, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, DeAndre Swift, Xavier McKinney, and Kyle Dugger.

Thats not 26 GMs passing on Marino. This isn’t some situation where you’re cherry-picking one great player Grier passed on. He overdrafted two players and passed on a large pool of players who have proven to be excellent.
 

BahamaFinFan78

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Again, I wish I knew how true the story is that Grier acquired players Flores wanted. Credit or blame, but who wanted these guys?
 

Feverdream

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Fair. Except for the fact that some of his most glaring misses were very closely followed by significantly better picks.

He drafted Austin Jackson - who was followed closely by Justin Jefferson, Cesar Ruiz, Brandon Aiyuk, and Patrick Queen.

He drafted Noah Igbinoghene - who was followed closely by CEH, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, DeAndre Swift, Xavier McKinney, and Kyle Dugger.

Thats not 26 GMs passing on Marino. This isn’t some situation where you’re cherry-picking one great player Grier passed on. He overdrafted two players and passed on a large pool of players who have proven to be excellent.
This happens to every GM who ever makes a less than successful pick. There are always a list of should-haves. Grier is no different than ANY other GM in this regard.
 

Rev Kev

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Better question is how many more years does he get to put an Oline together? His FA additions on O have been well brutal

Maybe we should have a Co GMs One of the O and a GM of the D - it clearly worked for our OCs this past year

He and Flo hampered Tua - Time is spent can’t get it back
 

ForksPhin

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This happens to every GM who ever makes a less than successful pick. There are always a list of should-haves. Grier is no different than ANY other GM in this regard.
Of course, every GM drafts busts.

Austin Jackson and Noah Igbinoghene are looking like massive busts. They were both reaches in the same first round. That scenario is a rare level of failure.
 

SF Dolphin Fan

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Completely agree. The roster is significantly improved from 2019. Some really good young talent and a healthy salary cap.

There were some draft misses, but that's the case with every GM.
 

AMakados10

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Nice write up but it is missing other draft capital impacting moves that Grier made.

We gave up our 2nd Rd pick in 2019 for Rosen, used a 5th in 2020 for Brieda, and traded our 1st and 3rd Rd picks in 2022 to move up for Waddle and Eichenberg. We also traded a 4th in 2021 for a pick in 2022 but I’m too lazy to look it up.

I wasn’t a fan of any of the moves, including moving back up to 6 for what amounted to Waddle. I mocked D. Smith and M. Parsons to us and still think we could have pulled that off using less draft capital.
 

Ryan1973

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Why only the previous 3 though? He's been in charge of the draft since 2016 and it's easier to judge a draft as time passes.
Grier wasn’t fully in charge of the draft until 2019. Tannenbaum was here before that.
 

eMCee85

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It has always seemed like a lot of the Grier criticism came down to a couple of things. Many Finheavenites were either a) Upset because he didn't draft specific players/positions that they, personally, wanted or b) They wanted the entire rookie squad to play like seasoned veterans right out of the box. So I decided to take another look at the previous three draft classes.

2019
Round 1 (13): DI Christian Wilkins, Clemson (Just had an excellent season. Top 4 in tackles. Increasing pass rush presence)
Round 3 (78): G Michael Deiter, Wisconsin (Mediocre starting Center)
Round 5 (151): LB Andrew Van Ginkel, Wisconsin (a flat steal)
Round 6 (202): OT Isaiah Prince, Ohio State (currently with the Bengals, and starting)
Round 7 (233): FB Chandler Cox, Auburn (out of the NFL)
Round 7 (234): RB Myles Gaskin, Washington (sometime starter, better 3rd down back)
UDFAs: Nik Needham, Patrick Laird, Jonathan Ledbetter, Chris Myarick, and Preston Williams (Needham starting nickel back, the others have played some)

In retrospect, this was not a bad draft at all. Wilkins has become one of the best DTs in the league, Dieter is a league average sort of player as a third rounder, and Van Ginkle and Needham have wildly outplayed their draft positions).

2020
  • Round 1, Pick No. 5: Tua Tagavailoa, QB, Alabama (Sure, I would have taken Herbert, but Tua hasn't been awful. This isn't a Haskins pick)
  • Round 1, Pick No. 18: Austin Jackson, OT, USC (Beginning to look like a questionable pick, although he did play better in '20 than '21)
  • Round 1, Pick No. 30: Noah Igbinoghene, CB, Auburn (not looking good)
  • Round 2, Pick No. 39: Robert Hunt, G, Louisiana-Lafayette (extremely solid pick)
  • Round 2, Pick No. 56: Raekwon Davis, DT, Alabama (was a star in '20, took a step back this year. Still looks solid)
  • Round 3, Pick No. 70: Brandon Jones, S, Texas (third safety so far, probably starts next year)
  • Round 4, Pick No. 111: Solomon Kindley, G, Georgia (not looking good)
  • Round 5, Pick No. 154: Jason Strowbridge, DE, North Carolina (currently a free agent)
  • Round 5, Pick No. 164: Curtis Weaver, OLB, Boise State (practice squad Browns)
  • Round 6, Pick No. 185: Blake Ferguson, LS, LSU (starting on special teams. Solid)
  • Round 7, Pick No. 246: Malcolm Perry, WR, Navy (practice squad Patriots)
  • UDFAs: Not much. Benito Jones and Kirk Merritt are still around, but neither looks like a future player.
This draft will always be defined by Tua. If he succeeds next year, this is a decent draft, despite the Igbinoghene reach. Jackson had a decent season, followed by a bad one, and it's unknown what a better Offensive Line coach will be able to get out of him. Hunt has been really good, and Jones and Davis have been solid. Some people bitched because of the Ferguson pick, but he's still with us and contributing-- unlike Strowbridge, Weaver, and Perry. This draft was one of those, hit, then miss drafts, but in the long run... it's ALL about the decision to draft Tua over Herbert.

2021

  • 6th Overall Selection (R1-P6): Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama
  • 18th Overall Selection (R1-P18): Jaelan Phillips, EDGE, Miami
  • 36th Overall Selection (R2-P4, from Houston): Jevon Holland, S, Oregon
  • 42nd Overall Selection (R2-P10, from N.Y. Giants): Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame
  • 81st Overall Selection (R3-P18): Hunter Long, TE, Boston College
  • 231st Overall Selection (R7-P3, from Houston): Larnel Coleman, OT, Massachusetts
  • 244th Overall Selection (R7-P16, from Washington): Gerrid Doaks, RB, Cincinnati
Whew... this one was a home run, just one of the best drafts that we've EVER had! The top three all look like future Pro Bowl players. Eichenberg was bounced all over the place and survived despite playing the only position that no draft tout thought he was suited for (LT). Next year, expect him to start on the right side, next to Hunt. The Long pick looks like a miss, but only because like Iggy in 2019, we didn't really need him. He may end up being a player, but we have not seen anything yet. Coleman went to IR after a decent camp and may replace Davis at swing tackle next year. Doaks must not have shown much... as bad as our rushing attack was, we never once thought about using him.

So... you and I may disagree over this or that player, but I really don't see how anyone can consider these three draft classes as an abject failure. Many of our best players came directly from Chris Grier's drafts. When you consider the rest of what he's done-- getting us so far under the cap and generally getting decent returns on his trades.... I just don't see where all of the anti-Grier sentiment comes from. Even the Free Agent signings have proven reasonably safe... only the Byron Jones signing was for longer than two years and the Ogbah signing has been a godsend. Stealing Seiler from the Ravens and then signing him to a below market contract was a gift. Butler, Riley... several others have provided valuable downs as back up players.

Why have we underwhelmed? The Offensive Line. ...and it may be argued that the problem here is that our coaching was really poor-- not really his fault.
Well damn, before this post I thought I hated him... but now my life has just been turned upside down. So I guess he's not that bad now! Lol
 

Awsi Dooger

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I'm amazed Isaiah Prince is starting. His body control was so awful at Ohio State and here. This week he faces Crosby.

Raekwon Davis was anything but a star in 2020. That's why I didn't mind talking him down after the season, even as some of the dependable shills chirped as if he were an all star candidate. A combo of no agility and no awareness is not a difficult forecast.

Likewise there were chirpers regarding Chase Young's rookie season. I didn't backtrack there either. He didn't do the combine drills because he knew darn well he would flunk them badly and set off alarm bells. Good hard trying wiry player but not explosive enough to get around the corner in the NFL.
 

SmokyFin

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Fair. Except for the fact that some of his most glaring misses were very closely followed by significantly better picks.

He drafted Austin Jackson - who was followed closely by Justin Jefferson, Cesar Ruiz, Brandon Aiyuk, and Patrick Queen.

He drafted Noah Igbinoghene - who was followed closely by CEH, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, DeAndre Swift, Xavier McKinney, and Kyle Dugger.

Thats not 26 GMs passing on Marino. This isn’t some situation where you’re cherry-picking one great player Grier passed on. He overdrafted two players and passed on a large pool of players who have proven to be excellent.
If there's one thing Flores loves it's cornerbacks. I guarantee the iggy pick is all him as well as ignoring the RB position because that's the "Patriot Way." And Im sure numerous picks the last few drafts were players who flores wanted and lobbied for.
 
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