Some insight on the Bench Press @ the Combine!!! | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Some insight on the Bench Press @ the Combine!!!

Finsfan1984

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Ive read a lot of people on this sight talking about the bench press...and i have also heard a lot of comments on the NFL channel about this...

I have been involved for years with athletic training, lifting and such for years, and, not to ring my own bell, but have an extensive amount of insight into this area. To those of you that are familiar with these insights, i mean no disrespect here at all, but to those of you who are not, maybe this can help out a bit.

When i watch the guys lift, i dont pay as much attention to the number as i do other aspects of the lift. Maybe this will explain it better.

There are 2 important aspects when measuring muscle strength and/or endurance; SLOW-TWITCH and QUICK-TWITCH muscles. As it pertains to football as well as other athletics, the most important is the Quicktwitch muscles. This gives an athlete tremendous, instantaneous response to the act that they are performing. Example of this is the 40 time, 2 people run the same 40 @ 4.5, but one guy is extremely fast out of the whole and is at full speed by 10 yards, the other guy got faster and faster, and was at full speed @ the 20. The second guy probably has a faster 100 yard time than the 1st but, whats more important. The same thing applies to the benchpress.

It is nice to have a player who can do a lot of reps at 225, but, when weighing 300+, you would expect them to lift it a lot of times anyway. A more appropriate lift would be 325 for those who weight 300+, and this is done in a lot of places instead of the 225.

Some things to consider here is, arm length and speed or explosion at which the person lifts the weight. This is largely overlooked by some, and gives a much truer assessment than just merely the number of times it is lifted. Longer armed persons have to use a lot more energy than do the shorter armed persons. So when a LT with long arms gets in the upper 30's, thats pretty impressive as opposed to one with short arms who lifts it maybe 3 to 5 times more. In other words, the longer armed person actually did more work, used more energy and endurance, and if you added all the distance of each rep with the next, moved it a further distance all together even though he did fewer numbered reps.

Also other things to consider is how they lift it. Are they bouncing the weight, or are they controlling the weight and muscling it up, and are they lifting the weight and locking out their arms. By bouncing and not locking out the weight, you save a lot of energy.

When a person bounces the wieght, they aren't using the explosion of the chest and shoulder muscles to explode the weight up, they are using the momentum of the weight to propel it past those muscles to their triceps. This is usually done by those who do not have as strong a chest and or shoulder muscles, but rather they have stronger triceps. Another thing that is overlooked, is when the bar is being lifted, is the person using their legs alot to help in the lift, or are they mainly lifting with the upper body. Most people are not aware that you can really use your lower body alot to help aid in the lift. Those that only use the upper body without the legs, show a more truer assessment of their upper body strength.

The speed or explosion that the weight comes off the chest with, without bouncing it, is a very impressive and a much more accurate way of judging someones strength in that particular area. I takes more muscle strength to do this, and gives a better assessment of that persons strenght and conditioning as it pertains to this particular area.

What is impressive is when a person controls the weight throughout the movement. Explodes up fast from the chest without bouncing it, and the bar is propelled up rather quickly. That shows pure strenght in all the muscle areas as well as endurance.

To play on the line, you have to not only have strenght, but maybe as important if not more important, you have to have EXPLOSION, the "PUNCH" as many coaches call it. The explosion is whats important, quick twitch muscles. Just like the legs when running the ball, that initial explosion. This is what separates the elite.

Hope this gives some of you some insight...and hope i have not offended anyone if to you i have stated what you were already aware of.
:bighug:
 

BillsFanInPeace

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Ive read a lot of people on this sight talking about the bench press...and i have also heard a lot of comments on the NFL channel about this...

I have been involved for years with athletic training, lifting and such for years, and, not to ring my own bell, but have an extensive amount of insight into this area. To those of you that are familiar with these insights, i mean no disrespect here at all, but to those of you who are not, maybe this can help out a bit.

When i watch the guys lift, i dont pay as much attention to the number as i do other aspects of the lift. Maybe this will explain it better.

There are 2 important aspects when measuring muscle strength and/or endurance; SLOW-TWITCH and QUICK-TWITCH muscles. As it pertains to football as well as other athletics, the most important is the Quicktwitch muscles. This gives an athlete tremendous, instantaneous response to the act that they are performing. Example of this is the 40 time, 2 people run the same 40 @ 4.5, but one guy is extremely fast out of the whole and is at full speed by 10 yards, the other guy got faster and faster, and was at full speed @ the 20. The second guy probably has a faster 100 yard time than the 1st but, whats more important. The same thing applies to the benchpress.

It is nice to have a player who can do a lot of reps at 225, but, when weighing 300+, you would expect them to lift it a lot of times anyway. A more appropriate lift would be 325 for those who weight 300+, and this is done in a lot of places instead of the 225.

Some things to consider here is, arm length and speed or explosion at which the person lifts the weight. This is largely overlooked by some, and gives a much truer assessment than just merely the number of times it is lifted. Longer armed persons have to use a lot more energy than do the shorter armed persons. So when a LT with long arms gets in the upper 30's, thats pretty impressive as opposed to one with short arms who lifts it maybe 3 to 5 times more. In other words, the longer armed person actually did more work, used more energy and endurance, and if you added all the distance of each rep with the next, moved it a further distance all together even though he did fewer numbered reps.

Also other things to consider is how they lift it. Are they bouncing the weight, or are they controlling the weight and muscling it up, and are they lifting the weight and locking out their arms. By bouncing and not locking out the weight, you save a lot of energy.

When a person bounces the wieght, they aren't using the explosion of the chest and shoulder muscles to explode the weight up, they are using the momentum of the weight to propel it past those muscles to their triceps. This is usually done by those who do not have as strong a chest and or shoulder muscles, but rather they have stronger triceps. Another thing that is overlooked, is when the bar is being lifted, is the person using their legs alot to help in the lift, or are they mainly lifting with the upper body. Most people are not aware that you can really use your lower body alot to help aid in the lift. Those that only use the upper body without the legs, show a more truer assessment of their upper body strength.

The speed or explosion that the weight comes off the chest with, without bouncing it, is a very impressive and a much more accurate way of judging someones strength in that particular area. I takes more muscle strength to do this, and gives a better assessment of that persons strenght and conditioning as it pertains to this particular area.

What is impressive is when a person controls the weight throughout the movement. Explodes up fast from the chest without bouncing it, and the bar is propelled up rather quickly. That shows pure strenght in all the muscle areas as well as endurance.

To play on the line, you have to not only have strenght, but maybe as important if not more important, you have to have EXPLOSION, the "PUNCH" as many coaches call it. The explosion is whats important, quick twitch muscles. Just like the legs when running the ball, that initial explosion. This is what separates the elite.

Hope this gives some of you some insight...and hope i have not offended anyone if to you i have stated what you were already aware of.
:bighug:
I do not think scouts and GMs put to much into the 225 bench. But there has to be a standardized event. That is why it is 225. Now I agree with what you said. I would look at the explosion more than the number, that is what would somewhat simulate pushing in football.

I tend to think scouts look for more of what they are doing when they are not under the bench. They are looking for the comradery (sp) as mush as the explosion. That and also how much effort is the guy giving. Is he pushing his hardest trying to be the best, or coasting for a decent number.

Second much like the 40 this is an event you train for. A guy can one rep at 550 but only get 25 reps. Why because he did not train for that 225. In Reality I think the biggest thing is ok he is where we figured he should be type of thing. Now lets move on to the positional drills.

For example TEs Olson and Miller are regaurded as the 2 best TE. Both considered equal talent. Miller ran a 4.8, Olson ran a 4.49. That will be the cross check a team may use to take Olson over Miller.

Overall I think the measurables of Height, Weight, Build and then positional drills are most important.

Now certain drills are more important for certain positsions. Obviously you want a DB with a good verticle compared to one that puts up 25 reps.
 

Finsfan1984

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Sorry bout the length of the article, didnt realize it until it was sent.
 

Hoot

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Good stuff man. I'm pretty consistent in the weight room but I wasn't aware of some of those things...some good insight to not only watch for on these combine players but in myself as well.
 

zonk4ever

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A big bench doesn't automatically make you an All-Pro but it doesn't hurt. Larry Allen generally considered one of the best offensive guards in football benches 700 and it seems to help him.
 

Finsfan1984

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A big bench doesn't automatically make you an All-Pro but it doesn't hurt. Larry Allen generally considered one of the best offensive guards in football benches 700 and it seems to help him.

Our very own Dwight Stephensen only weighed about 250 or so and had a HUGE bench for the time...dont remember exactly what it was but it was around 500-600 lbs. Just HUGE at the time, especially for a 250 lb guy. And he had a dominant career until it was cut short by injury.
 

jdcane98

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And he had a dominant career until it was cut short by injury.

that's what happens to power lifters, they train heavy and put too much stress and weight on their joints/ligaments, which often leads to back injuries, shoulder injuries. I'd rather see a guy rep 225 than max. Shows explosion and muscle endurance. A bench max tests 2 things: the psi of you punch for OLman and how good you're going to be at pushing a guy off you. if you're good at pushing a guy off you, you must not be a good football player. last thing i want is to be under another 280lbs man.

repping the bench gives you muscle endurance, fast-twitch muscle fibers, and makes you more of an athlete, which is what football players are now a days. the old Nebraska teams of the 80's and early-mid 90's would be too slow in todays game. You need athletes, lean guys who can move and stay healthy.

Maxing out is power lifting, power lifting is injuries and slow football players.
 

Finsfan1984

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that's what happens to power lifters, they train heavy and put too much stress and weight on their joints/ligaments, which often leads to back injuries, shoulder injuries. I'd rather see a guy rep 225 than max. Shows explosion and muscle endurance. A bench max tests 2 things: the psi of you punch for OLman and how good you're going to be at pushing a guy off you. if you're good at pushing a guy off you, you must not be a good football player. last thing i want is to be under another 280lbs man.

repping the bench gives you muscle endurance, fast-twitch muscle fibers, and makes you more of an athlete, which is what football players are now a days. the old Nebraska teams of the 80's and early-mid 90's would be too slow in todays game. You need athletes, lean guys who can move and stay healthy.

Maxing out is power lifting, power lifting is injuries and slow football players.

I agree somewhat with your analagy, but repping doesnt necessarily give you the quick twitch muscle. Its more about the type of lifting than it is the number of reps. But also, nothing can replace shear strength, just like nothing can replace shear speed, either you got it or you dont. You can make slight improvements on both, but its more or less genetic.

Dwight Stephensen was not injured due to his POWERLIFTING muscles as you stated. He was injured by what dolphins officials as well as Don Shula called an intentional combo high and low by the defensive line. Cant remember for sure, but i beleive it was against the Pats in 86.
 

Finsfan1984

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Powerlifting doesnt bring about injuries...not if its done right. Powerlifting movements are still widely used today by almost all professional sports, especially football. Its used in combination with other explosive movements. Powerlifting, or more correctly powerlifting movements, if done correctly, actually improves explosion, quickness, endurance, speed, and helps the overall athleticism of the athlete.
 

jdcane98

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you have to max at the end of the 3 cycles, that's for sure, it should be tested at the end of each cycle as well.

Hypertrophy
Test- Max here
Max Strength
Test- Max here
Converstion to Power 85-100% of your lift
Test- Max here

yes, you still bench, squat, deadlift and clean. But you dont powerlift. Powerlifting is 80-100% of your max 5sets 1-3reps. It leads to injuries. I coach S&C with a S&C nationally certified coach, who's worked with Mickey M at UF on many occasions. He also owns his own speed & strength training company, and is the S&C coach for a high school. His work outs are based on movement and flexibility, endurance, and burst. Your body will be exhausted and the tendons/ligaments will pull apart if you're working towards your max year round (which you have to be to get a 700).
 

Finsfan1984

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you have to max at the end of the 3 cycles, that's for sure, it should be tested at the end of each cycle as well.

Hypertrophy
Test- Max here
Max Strength
Test- Max here
Converstion to Power 85-100% of your lift
Test- Max here

yes, you still bench, squat, deadlift and clean. But you dont powerlift. Powerlifting is 80-100% of your max 5sets 1-3reps. It leads to injuries. I coach S&C with a S&C nationally certified coach, who's worked with Mickey M at UF on many occasions. He also owns his own speed & strength training company, and is the S&C coach for a high school. His work outs are based on movement and flexibility, endurance, and burst. Your body will be exhausted and the tendons/ligaments will pull apart if you're working towards your max year round (which you have to be to get a 700).

Dude, we are arguing the same point here, just different terminology. I have powerlifted for years, american and olympic style, and competed nationally, dont do it anymore, however. I now do more of a combo of strength, flexability, and core training exercises. With emphasis on core training. Somewhat of a crossfit regimine.

Yes, you are totally right about maxing leading to injuries, especially when you do it on a regular basis, and especially when you take the joint past its normal range of motion. This works the joints moreso than the muscles. I agree here, totally. My point was that you cant go totally the other way and forgo strength. The combination of flexibility, endurance, athletic ability, and STRENGTH go together collectively. :D
 

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I know this is off the subject but is anybody impressed that Brady Quinn did 24 reps today like I am?
 

Finsfan1984

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I know this is off the subject but is anybody impressed that Brady Quinn did 24 reps today like I am?
Yes definitely, he is a stud of an athlete. I already knew this though as did a lot of people i guess. I actually thought he would throw it up more than that though, around 30 is what i was figuring. I read somewhere that he benches in the 400+ lb range too. Still 24 is excellent especially for a QB who relies more on flexibility in the shoulder and arm area.
 
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