Spin And Narrative To Shape Public Opinion And Shift Focus

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by JTech194, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM.

  1. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    We've heard a lot from the team about culture, lack of studying and lack of leadership as it relates to the moves that were made. I think about that and it doesn't really make sense to me so it causes me to think more and here's my theory

    Outside of the Ajayi move, I think all of the other moves had very little to do with "Culture, Leadership, Study Habits" and everything to do with Finances...

    Quickly here's why I think that.

    Landry - Had the most targets and catches on the team.... if he doesn't know where to go and is running the wrong routes... Why is the coach calling so many plays for him? Why wasn't he benched? Why would you (allegedly) offer him 13 million a season? They didn't want to pay him what they knew he'd get on the open market so they let him walk and I'm ok with that, but this is Financial

    Suh - They Didn't want to pay a DT that much money for minimal impact to the overall defense. Financial

    Pouncy - Asked him to take a pay cut, had he accepted he'd probably still be here. If he's a culture problem now, wouldn't he be more of a problem making less money? Financial


    So this begs the question..... Why are they trying to sell us this culture\study habits\leadership crap?

    My opinion.... Because it shifts the blame and focus onto the players and AWAY FROM THE COACHES AND MANAGEMENT!!! If everyone is looking at the players and what they did wrong, then no one is looking at what the coaches and management did wrong.

    So the question I have is, do you think pro sports teams say things in public or leak things to the media to shape public perception to serve an agenda in general? And more specifically to shift the focus towards the players so that the organization doesn't look bad in the public's eyes?
     
  2. BSQ

    BSQ Scout Team

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    Honestly, I'm not caring too much about who to blame for what, but of course, what you wrote is largely true. They have an entire PR department to make sure public perception is high. This is one of the reasons the team is always connected to schools, churches and charities etc. I'm all about product on the field right now. I'm super eager to see Tannehill come out and play some Football already!!!!!!!
     
  3. qmar

    qmar Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is Yes.

    The long answer is Yes, no doubt.
     
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  4. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm going to focus on one sentence . . . "do you think pro sports teams say things in public or leak things to the media to shape public perception to serve an agenda" and tweak it a little. "do you think humans say things in public or leak things to the friends to shape public perception to serve an agenda?"

    Yup. Every living breathing adult human, whether they admit it or not. The flip side, in your scenario, is we can substitute "pro sports teams" for "media" and "fans" for "media" and be right. Part of it is acceptable - not wanting to embarrass a player. Part is hiding intentions from other teams. That said, I DO think moves were made due to culture (e.g., bad calls by Pouncey frustrated OLmen) and study habits (e.g., Landry). And, NOT for the media, was 'Landry can be an uncontrolled hothead and thinks HE knows the best routes. (culture?)' So, IMO, some moves were culture and study habits, but not expressed in the media. At least, not directly. There WERE reports (leaks?) of Landry's study habits, of Pouncey wanting a raise, of Suh free-lancing (i.e., guessing).

    I'm NOT arguing none of the three were financial - I think finances were a part of all three. OTOH, I think "culture, leadership, and study habits" were part of the mix also. I don't see 'yes' or 'no.'
     
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  5. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    I think you think about this too much.
     
  6. sleek

    sleek $$UNDERDOG$$

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    All teams get rid of players and get new ones.
     
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  7. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 We? What the **** we? Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If what you’re saying is true then they took talent away from the team as to deflect blame from a 6-10 team and is now at risk at being worse than last year bc of said gutting of their best players.

    Not saying it’s guaranteed but that’s is ballsy if true.
     
  8. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    Part of it was financial especially Suh, but I think Gase was sick of the whole bunch of them especially Ajayi and Landry. The FO knew Landry was not going to accept a deal paying him 13 mill a season and they played on that, they could now come out and say we simply couldn't afford him, but landry's antics and that little blow up at the coach on the sidelines that was downplayed, all played a part in wanting to get rid of him. Ajayi was the same thing, whether it was his consistent complaining, or not blocking the right guy or not blocking at all for that matter, was the straw that broke the camels back in wanting to get rid of both of them.

    What surprises me, is that some of you guys aren't listening, Gase told us this was going to happen, from study habits, to wanting leaders, to being embarrassed, to players having to play for their jobs....it was all there right in front of us, we just couldn't believe he would go through with it.
     
  9. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    You've whined about this in other threads, did you have to actually start another one.
     
  10. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    The only move I think was due to culture was the Ajayi move because financially it didn't make sense to trade him.

    But I'm not buying the "Poor Study habits" narrative with Landry and here's why.... If Landry had poor study habits... why not bench him? What would you call plays targeted at him way more than the guys that are studying the right way? And most importantly .... why would you turn around and offer that guy 13 million dollars a season (Allegedly) Too many factors that contradict what they're saying and this is why I think it was purely financial.

    With Pouncy.. if he had agreed to take that paycut they so called offered him, he'd still be here. If he was a bad culture fit last year, what would he have been next year making more money?

    Suh, his production was fine... still one of the best DT's in the league. Management just realized that adding the best DT in the league will NOT fix their defensive problems so paying 20 million just didn't make sense. All Financial.
     
  11. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

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  12. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    No one is arguing that... Ball teams don't get rid of their best players in one season. A move like that will surely bring public ridicule and backlash from the fans, No organization wants to use the word rebuild in public and will try and sell the fans all types of alternatives to avoid using the term. Most fans don't want to hear that you're getting rid of most of the players they pay to see for financial reasons. (See Marlins) so I could see management getting together before the moves and asking themselves "How can we spin this"?
     
  13. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    Apparently you don't know the difference between whining and having a discussion on a forum with people that are passionate about the same team. If you don't want to add to the discussion with an opinion feel free to remove yourself from this thread and ignore any other thread that I start. SMDH sheesh.
     
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  14. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    But my general point is.... if they truly don't want to sign a player for non-financial reasons..... why offer him a contract at all? Is that really smart? What if the player calls their bluff and accepts the offer? Now you're stuck with a player that you don't want and paying him 13million.

    I don't think the landry issue was culture, the evidence points to financial reasons... again which is fine and I'm cool with. But why the charade? I think if they had come out and said... hey, we had 13 million in mind, he had 16 we wish him the best. Period. Pointing out a players flaws will only make fans and other people like me question those comments.
     
  15. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan

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    Pro teams are by necessity obsessed with their "image" and of course pay peeps big $$$ to create the narrative they want the public to consume.

    Big time propaganda
     
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  16. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    I don't think the moves or the narrative being put out there was to deflect blame from a 6-10 season. I think Gase looked at the players and the numbers and thought..... For where we are as a team and where we need to go, I think we can do better things with the money these players will want or are making. But selling that to the fans is risky because you're doing 2 things. 1. asking fans to believe that the team will be better without their best players. and 2. Believe enough in you that you're right. This would put the focus and pressure solely on Gase and Management because if you get rid of those players and the players you bring in to replace them don't result in more wins...... EVERYONE will know YOU WERE WRONG. And that gets people fired.

    However..... If they point the blame at the players by saying they don't study, they aren't leaders etc..... Fans turn on the players (which is happening) and would feel better about the moves even if they don't pan out because the players that we got rid of weren't what we needed anyway because they didn't have the qualities that a lot of fans care about (Leadership, dedication, team first attitude etc....)

    It all reminds me of the netflix Political series House of Cards.
     
  17. JTech194

    JTech194 Starter

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    I agree 100% because some of the stuff that's put out there just doesn't hold up to further scrutiny. The problem is that most people don't care to scrutinize whats being said. And the teams and their PR firms know this.
     
  18. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    The guys that are gone, are gone and they're not coming back. The new players are now our players and I'm rooting for them. Regardless of why those are gone and these are now here, these are the ones that matter. Time will tell if we made the right moves or not.

    One thing to keep on mind. Some of the guys we let go will probably have good seasons with their new teams. That doesn't mean it was the wrong move to let them go. It's not all about the stats. It's about what GROUP of players will make our team better. We only won 6 games with those guys in it. We'll see how many we win now
     
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  19. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This is whining, the players are no longer with this team, so let's move on. Who cares why and what happened, they're gone. Let's talk about the players that are here. You're not with the team, you're not in meeting rooms, you're not part of the organization, in fact you don't know squat about what's going on behind closed doors. Every player released had a little bit of what you mentioned. (Culture, Leadership, Study Habits" and Finances..) everything.
     
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  20. sleek

    sleek $$UNDERDOG$$

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    Chiefs- dumped Alex Smith
    Tennessee Titans -fire Mularky after winning in playoffs
    Minnesota- Dumps all 3 QBS
    Buffalo -got rid of Tyrod Taylor
    Jaguars -got rid of A. Robinson & A. Hurns
    Rams-got rid of S.Watkins & R.Quinn
    New England- Amendola, Solder, possibly Gronk
    Philly-Foles "Superbowl Champion" available for the right price,Blount,Burton
    ^ Those were all playoff teams from 2018 that made moves from critical positions
    Non-playoff teams moving on or shopping guys Den- C.J. Anderson, NYG-Beckham JR.,Dallas D.-Bryant, Seattle-R.Sherman
     
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  21. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    The coaches weren't spared, there will be around a half-dozen new faces coaching this year.
    also, culture change is real when you look at who was added, Sitton, Amendola and Gore are all very high character guys.
    and we have seen quotes from players talking about the lack of leadership from Suh, Pouncey and Landry so it's not like it was fabricated by management. They may be pushing a narrative but there is truth underneath
     
  22. LargoFin

    LargoFin Well-Known Member

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    It kills the 7-1 argument. When the time came to part with players, they parted with leaders in production or tenure, Pouncey, Ajayi, Landry, Mikchael Thomas. And they told us, that was a big part of the decision. they could've parted with others, but they chose those few for that reason.
     
  23. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

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    Nope. Potatoes. The unicorn trampling on potatoes is clearly to blame for Olivadotti.



    The above line makes every bit as much sense as "It kills the 7-1 argument."
     
  24. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
  25. Laser13

    Laser13 Well-Known Member

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    Much agreed.

    It’s all about maintaining a squeaky clean public perception to keep fans in the seats, and also keep the sales of such chugging along through the turnstiles.
     
  26. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I disagree they were gutted or worse, because though they got rid of a very good receiver, they brought two that can end up with as many receptions or more combined, while probably getting more TDs. They got rid of their center, but brought back at worse an as good, who is more consistent. The only one of the three that might hurt is Suh, but if they the LB Squad is better this year, with two safeties that can hit, a running game by opponents will not be worse.

    I doubt Miami has gutted this team, if anything, if they play it right next week, this will be a much better team.
     
  27. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Absolutely and you have a veteran gm who knows how to do this after sinking the Browns and Jets franchises. Tbum is most likely laughing himself silly at pulling the wool over the eyes of the fans of yet another franchise he is ruining.
     
  28. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Like to see the link to those players comments if you have them thanks
     
  29. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Not attributed quotes but reporting:

    First an excerpt from a recent "Chambers Files" in the VIP

    "...When Laremy Tunsil was struggling Mike offered to watch film with him and Laremy said no thanks... mostly because Mike never did that before, and Laremy saw that has a pity gesture towards him when he was struggling rather than a chance to improve. Now Laremy did start watching film with Ja'Waun when he got hurt..."

    This second piece is from Armando yesterday

    "...Amid coach firings, and losing, Suh would try to have player meetings and the reaction from some teammates were eye-rolls because they didn't consider him their leader..."

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...-salguero/article208684269.html#storylink=cpy

    I should not have said "quotes" but these are from teammates
     
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  30. Jdsrp37

    Jdsrp37 Active Member

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    The author of this thread is right-on.
    Tannenbaum pays Suh and others tons of money, then demands they take a pay cut.
    And that's the player's fault ?
    And that's the player creating a culture problem?
    No, that's obviously a management problem.

    If we don't make the playoffs this year, Tannenbaum and crew will be gone.
     
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  31. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Thanks, interesting the guys offered to help but were rejected. While I will state up front I do not have links, I read during the season that Suh was making efforts to coach up Phillips and others this past season and Laundrys extra efforts during games inspired his teammates. Its like reading two different stories out of the same book. Well the next chapter in Gases novel is about to be written so that should tell us by this time next year whats going on.
     
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  32. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    It is my belief that it was a culture, learning thing. Too many times last season did Gase speak about a lack of understanding of the playbook, or a lack of wanting to learn the playbook. He mentioned going home and letting it sink in, etc.

    Gase came in and was given a team. He tried to make a great meal with other people's choice of ingredients. After 2017, I believe he was done with that, and told the FO he wants his guys.

    Thomas was his guy and it didn't work out. He brought Cutler in, but I think that was a move of calculated desperation.
     
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  33. Highzenga

    Highzenga Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the theory but pouncey wasn’t offered a pay cut. He was just let go. While all the big names that we got rid of are above average at their positions, none are true difference makers which is apparent based on the results. It is not savvy to pay big money to non difference makers. All the players that we let go are easily replaceable.
     
  34. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    They tried to re-structure pounceys contract and he said no and asked to be let go.
     
  35. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Let's assume Player A is an all-pro who "goes against team culture" in a non-major way

    Let's assume Player A will play for free

    Do we cut Player A for culture? No.

    My point is, every move, culture-related or otherwise, has financial implications. This is a business. Gase can make smart business decisions and change the culture at the same time, which is what he's doing now.
     
  36. Bopkin02

    Bopkin02 Seasoned Veteran

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    I think it's way more simple- finances, yes, but:
    Finances vs. value to team and production.
    You don't mind paying a player big $$ if it makes sense and he produces(Wake) and he fits the team needs.
    You don't want to pay a guy big money who does not.
    We aren't the only team doing this- Dallas just did it with Dez. Money paid doesn't match production, so he's released.
    With a salary cap this is standard procedure, I believe. I don't see it as anything more than, we are paying Pouncey too much for what he brings to the team. So we release him. Jarvis wants too much for the role he will play with the team. We don't resign him. We all knew from day 1 Suh's contract was crazy. Then we gripe when we get out of it(I understand how good of a player he is, but he never once, that I recall, changed a single game with his play) So his value to the team isn't worth that contract, thus the release.
    I don't think there is some evil plan to make this team suck. I just think they've finally decided to give contracts that reflect the value of a player to the team. And I think this is Gase's doing, and I think Tannenbaum and Grier are working with him to do that. I don't think any of them are gone after this year. It's a change in philosophy, and a total reboot for this team. I think NEXT year is the telling year. If we improve this year, let's say 8-8 or even 9-7, show progress, it'll show we are headed in the right direction and Ross will be OK. If we totally tank, like 4-12, then maybe, but I still think they get another year. That 4-12 would depend a lot on what happens at the QB spot, I believe.
     
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  37. Alex Thrasher

    Alex Thrasher FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Why does it have to be completely one reason? Everyone knows financial aspects were involved but its a combination of the culture change AND financial reasons. Gase would obviously keep these guys if they came cheaper there is no doubt in my mind because they are talented players but he also may have paid them more if they created a better culture. I can't go into details about certain things because that wouldn't be fair to people who paid the VIP but all of these players had culture reasons behind being let go combined with the financial reasons. It's well known that Landry's study habits weren't there and that he struggled with the playbook and route concepts but its possible that if he worked harder off the field and was more of a mentor to the young guys that he would have gotten the money he wanted from Miami. Obviously miami didnt think these guys were worth it financially, but a big reason they weren't worth it financially was because of the "culture change". Also, don't ignore the guys they brought in who are all clear evidence of Gase promoting this culture change. Every single guy is known as a hard worker and high character guy.
     
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