Start talking #3 officially | Page 40 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Start talking #3 officially

Mach2 said:
you're going to be talking with yourself pretty soon.......lol.

Sometimes it's better that way anyway......LMAO
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Not really! It filtered things so that those you find sensible are all that remains. It’s actually been quite nice.
 
ANUFan said:
Not really! It filtered things so that those you find sensible are all that remains. It’s actually been quite nice.
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Yeah, there does seem to be a lot of "noise" lately.

Not that I care, but am surprised I haven't made your list yet. We don't always see eye to eye.

You are right though. More and more i find myself having to fight the urge to just lay into someone for their stupidity. Then I realize it serves no purpose.
 
Mach2 said:
Yeah, there does seem to be a lot of "noise" lately.

Not that I care, but am surprised I haven't made your list yet. We don't always see eye to eye.

You are right though. More and more i find myself having to fight the urge to just lay into someone for their stupidity. Then I realize it serves no purpose.
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I have no problem with people I disagree with. We can always talk about it and it’s okay to have different view points.

But I can deal with “Tua has no chance to be anything in this league.. Etc”

Like, What is that?

Thats just being annoying and not really trying to provide anything meaningful to the table.
 
A good debate or discussion is always welcomed....some of this stupidity???
Ignore is good for them..
 
ThePeopleShow13 said:
I have watched and analyzed football for many years. I don’t believe any rookie QB would have looked “elite” in Miami last year. It is difficult to explain, but there was always something “not right” about the way Gailey called games for Tua. It was like he always knew what plays would have the best chance to work, but he didn’t want to call them. His play calling was either genius or he looked senile and there was no middle ground. I don’t feel the need to defend Tua, but I can name dozens of QBs who didn’t look anywhere close to elite as rookies. Josh Allen was widely seen as a bust after his rookie season; I live in NY and the Bills fans trashed him as hard as people trash Tua.
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Are you telling me that Justin Herbert had a better team than us and managed to throw 30 tds in his rookie season because he was also put in a situation to fail too? Our offense wasnt the best but it played competitive last season under the right conditions.
 
juniorseau55 said:
Are you telling me that Justin Herbert had a better team than us and managed to throw 30 tds in his rookie season because he was also put in a situation to fail too? Our offense wasnt the best but it played competitive last season under the right conditions.
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circumstances, is that so hard to fathom? Each QB played in different situations. Tua was thrown in the middle of a playoff contention. Whereas, herbert, was told to just sling it and they always played down. People here have been saying this Ad nauseum. Its almost as if you guys have already made up your minds about Tua...
 
Mach2 said:
If you still see clearly see "elite" from Tua, you aren't being honest either. It's possible, but your statement is based more on faith, than honest, non biased, in depth, technical analysis.

Your own words, "be patient, you'll see", indicate an undue amount of faith, rather than rational analysis.

I don't have a problem with that. A lot of ppl base far more important philosophies than football on "faith".

It's far more likely, and always has been, that Tua is average, or a little above. His physical limitations, like it or not, limit his ceiling.

That doesn't mean we cant win with him, or that he is an abject failure. It means he needs a good situation, a good system that fits his skillset, and talent around him.

That also happens to be true of any QB.
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IF you are judging Tua based off of vs Cards and Chiefs and beating the patsies why not
 
Tiko377 said:
IF you are judging Tua based off of vs Cards and Chiefs and beating the patsies why not
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I don't understand the question.

If you are going to pick and choose which performances to include, and omit others, it purposesly and obviously isn't a complete, and therefore honest evaluation.
 
Our weapons in the offense were close to if not the worst in the league at the start of the season, then we got hurt. Yet we won 10 games. With Gaily calling the plays.
 
juniorseau55 said:
Are you telling me that Justin Herbert had a better team than us and managed to throw 30 tds in his rookie season because he was also put in a situation to fail too? Our offense wasnt the best but it played competitive last season under the right conditions.
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I’m telling you Herbert had literally the exact starting skill players on offense that were on the 2018 team that went 12-4 with Rivers. Lynn lost his job because they grossly underperformed their talent level 2 seasons in a row. Tua played games with Parker, Williams, Grant, and Gesicki out. Plus Wilson and Hurns sat out. Plus we had a different starting RB every week with injuries and Covid issues causing us to have to rotate guys around. The Chargers offense and our offense are not comparable talent wise.
 
Geordie said:
Personally I fed up with all the crap being thrown at our rookie QB who just completed 9 games in this league with a 6-3 record and 11 tds to just 5 ints. At times he's shown incredible ability to manipulate the pocket, ability to throw into tight windows, use his legs when needed and learn from his mistakes. All on the back of a return from a horrific injury most thought he wouldn't see the field in 2020, lack of any meaningful pre-season where he wasn't even the starter and therefore didn't take the najority of the snaps, and throwing to a XFL calibre WR corps that have no idea how getting separation works. It was a damn good rookie season, but it's being shat on by folks because Flores thought it was a good idea to pull him in close games for a vet of 15 years (who had 4 wins this season 3 of which came against the two worst teams in the league) and because he's apparently hasn't had as good a rookie season than Justin Herbert (whom he schooled in their head to head this season, as well as not ****ting the bed when he came up against the owner of rookie QBs in NE, and a player he still had more wins than and way less losses, in a lot fewer games).

There is a distinct link between what the Jets "should do" at 2 and what we "should do" at 3. There are many many voices out there that truly believe the Jets should take Sewell at 2 (one year after grabbing Becton), passing on both Fields and Wilson because they feel that Darnold hasn't been given a fair crack of the whip. Darnold has shown nothing that would suggest a change in coaching will magically fix him btw. Yet are telling us we have to draft a QB at 3, because our rookie QB, who set records in college and was touted as one of the best prospects to come out in many a year prior to his injury, didn't suddenly start to play like Peyton Manning (well he actually did play a lot better than Manning in his rookie season). Here is one such example:


I listened to the PFF 2 for 1 podcast on Monday of this week where they did their mock, the guy doing the mock, mocked us to Sewell but the host described that as the "worst case scenario" stating picking a QB a 3 is what we should do or trade down, stating that Tua wasn't bad this season but wasn't good and that Zach Wilson has a way bigger arm and is way more accurate (what was that accuracy record Tua hold's in college history ? Who has Wilson beaten exactly, which elite college defenses has he shown that elite arm and accuracy trait against ?). They both said that the Jets should move on from Darnold though which shows they do have some intelligence in there, however they described Fields and Wilson as generational talents that had they come out last year would have been #1 picks !! Really, after Burrow's season ? Wilson, who hasn't beaten anyone and is very much a one year wonder and Fields who has two games on his resume from this year, Northwestern and Indiana that were so so bad that you wondered why he was even a first round prospect, 2 types of performance BTW that you can not find anywhere on Tua's college resume.

It's double standard nonsense, it's fine if folks want to discount any parallels to the Jets situation with their young QB. But it just shows another example of Tua just not getting that same benefit of the doubt that other young QB's get and I have no idea why that is, do you ?

Anyone arguing that taking a QB at 3 is not a reflection on Tua being classed as a bust, is completely out of their goad. There was literally no precedence for a team doing this until Murray over Rosen (who wasn't even a top 10 pick BTW) , and even then there is zero precedence for a team allowing top 5 QBs to battle it out for the starting job. Rosen was packed off the next day to a stupid team willing to give up a 2nd rounder for him because there was no way anyone thought it was a good idea to keep him around and try to compete. Taking a QB at 3 is giving up on Tua and moving on, it's not allowing two top 5 QB picks to compete. If that's what people think then they are way better judges of talent than I will ever be because 9 games (under incredibly difficult circumstances) is not enough evidence for me to make a call, especially on a player that was so damn good in college.

TLDR;
Take a QB at 3 if you have seen enough of Tua, he's a bust.
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No throwing shade on your analysis but who did Josh Allen beat in college? I am not sold on Tua and we wont have the 3rd pick again i hope. Draft a qb until you hit. Competition is a good thing. Now if somebody throws stupid assets you take it.
 
Buff said:
All this talk about trading Tua or picking a QB at 3, its BS. Imagine if the Pack gave up on Rogers after his 1st season, or Indy with Peyton, or Dallas and Aikman. Not saying Tua will reach those heights, but damn people, get a grip.

Now, the 3rd pick, Id still be happy with a trade down anywhere from 4 to 8. I think if Miami do trade down then there will be a flurry of other trades too.
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Having 2 qb's is not a bad thing. Atlanta got a 1st for Matt Schaub who i believe was a 3rd or 4th round pick.
 
finns13 said:
No throwing shade on your analysis but who did Josh Allen beat in college? I am not sold on Tua and we wont have the 3rd pick again i hope. Draft a qb until you hit. Competition is a good thing. Now if somebody throws stupid assets you take it.
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So because Allen played no one in college, suddenly every QB that has played no one should be considered as high draft picks and better than a QB who won a Nat Champ by dragging his team back from the dead as a Freshman ? Is that the hill you want to die on ? Level of competition is absolutely a factor when you are evaluating these prospects, you don't just sweep it under the carpet.

As I said in my post there is simply no precedence for any team drafting top 5 QBs in consecutive years and then asking them to complete, none, it doesn't happen. You know why ? Because it's asinine ! Even for teams that take a QB high one year, yet still suck, because they are bad teams and therefore have a top pick again the next. What they do and other teams is build around the QB they took they give him weapons or protect him with linemen, they don't throw picks away like that.

And also like I said many times before if Tua is as bad as you seem to be suggesting he is, why wouldn't we have a high pick again next year or the year after ?

Honestly some of the posts on here. SMH.
 
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